Dear diary: DT sucked ass

[King Chaos]

Villain's on the right wave length.

I want to let it also be known... I truly trusted my first "love" (trusted her intentions and her "love" for me was genuine... and by you romantic idealists' standards of love, it was genuine), and thought all of this fairytale bullshit could be real. But she had an over-night change of heart. OucH! Be warned. This could happen to you. Any of you. I only say this because I was 100% certain it would never happen to me. 100%... and you guys know I'm not the type of guy to delude myself. Especially not over a woman (no offense women, but I am pretty cynical about how my endeavors with your kind usually end up).

 

[fireangel]

I want to let it also be known... I truly trusted my first "love" (trusted her intentions and her "love" for me was genuine... and by you romantic idealists' standards of love, it was genuine), and thought all of this fairytale bullshit could be real. But she had an over-night change of heart. OucH! Be warned.

I`m surprised that you take one event, even an important one, to make a rule from this forever. And also, even if that failed, it doesn´t mean that the concept is wrong.
When things go wrong in other aspects of life, you wouldn´t say: I will never pass a test again; I will never get my driving licence because the first hour was a disaster, I will never get enough courage to take part in a play, or what else it is that you want to have. Of course my examples are less severe as love, still I think you cannot make a bad pattern out of everything.
You could also see your experience as the first step concerning love in your life, and more steps to follow. But from your "I´m so cynical"-attitude and other posts I would interpret, that you are just being so because you haven´t finished thinking about / dealing with that important relationship, even if you think it´s all buried, you harbour pretty much with the bad feelings. You´re not over with it as long as you still hate. When more time has passed, you might see things differently.





On another note, the next "feelings & random discussion - thread" could be named: Dear diary

 

[Taliesin]

I agree, one shouldnt make a general rule out of one event, but being disappointed by someone you love must be the thing that hurts most in the world, so maybe he's just not over it.
Also, a failed test wont cheat on you with another student and tell you to fuck off afterwards if you failed

Cynicism is a way of distancing yourself from what happened, a way to make the hurt seem less significant, and beyond a certain point cynicism certainly is not a very healthy attitude. Still, everyone who's been disappointed or has had a bad relationship will notice changes in his attitude, the first of which will probably be that you notice that there's no such person as "The One".
I stand by what I said about the feeling of love being nothing but hormones, but I still think the first time you really loved and felt that rush is special and that the person you loved during that time will always have a special place in your heart.

 

[fireangel]

I agree, one shouldnt make a general rule out of one event, but being disappointed by someone you love must be the thing that hurts most in the world, so maybe he's just not over it.
Also, a failed test wont cheat on you with another student and tell you to fuck off afterwards if you failed

yep, but the fact that so many people do have a "first love" and can report something bad that had happened to it would imply that in kazillions of cases there is at least a "second love" (or more to count), which then is called "the real one".

 

[King Chaos]

Well I agree. I wouldn't make a rule out of one thing... But for me "love" is always going to be a russian roulette now.

Just understand this: I was very very sure, as was my partner from what she reported on her feelings... that we were going to be together for a long time.

I don't live by a rule, that every woman I meet, will one day have a sudden change of heart. But how can I live with certainty that it won't happen, after that "love" in certainty was completely betrayed.

 

[rahvin]

If the woman of my dreams appeared in front of me and said she would love me 'til the end of my life if I, say, stopped listening to DT - I would dump her without a second thought.

You're a wise man in many ways, but this example casts the rest of your theory in a light which makes it look neither wise nor plausible.

Let me say straight out that I respect your point of view: there is nothing I feel less entitled to preach about than the Many Marvels of Love. The problem is that it sounds as if you lack any basic experience on the subject when you come up with such a wild hypothesis. I understand that you just meant to imply you don't want to make sacrifices for a loved one, but you should see for yourself that this case is ridiculous. No relationship among people above the age of three consists of ultimatums of that kind. Not only because DT are the source of all that is good and right in the universe, but also since any blatant case of emotional blackmail such as that one is a flashing red sign saying that the person you're talking to is an abysmal idiot, and therefore not likely to be The One, or even The Zero Point Two.

By making sacrifices for love we usually mean choosing to move to a certain town instead of another, postponing your trip to Brazil because your girlfriend is undergoing surgery, spending one long evening out with her favorite aunt whom you despise. These are all things that have meaning, as I'm sure you will notice by relating them to similar situations involving friendships or family ties. You do this kind of things because you're a decent guy, yet with a significant other you go the extra mile because that person makes you a little happier than your brother or your friends do, and in your mind this warrants spending a little more energy to make them happier in return.

The strangling strings of co-dependency and emotional aggravation you seem to think are the intended content of love are nothing but its worst by-product. Steer clear of crappy relationships and you'll avoid them.

As for neglecting other things, it really depends on what you're talking about. I give you the benefit of doubt because you're a smart and resourceful guy: if you're referring to sacrificing your other friendships and your career then I'm sure you ended up falling for the wrong girls; if, as it would seem from the letter of your post, you're referring to missing a Star Trek convention, well, I rest my case.


@Trit: I don't know, how old are you? Hypocritically, now that I'm in a relationship with someone who's 7 years younger than me, I set my requirements in terms of age to precisely no more than that. So we have no future if you're 21 or younger, sorry.

 

[plintus]

Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah blah-blah-blah blah-blah-blah-blah blah-blah blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah blah blah-blah-blah blah-blah blah-blah-blah-blah-blah blah blah-blah blah fucking blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah blah-blah-blah blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah blah-blah-blah-blah blah-blah-blah blah. Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah blah-blah-blah blah blah-blah? Blah-blah-blah blah-blah-blah ass blah-blah-blah blah blah-blah-blah-blah blah-blah blah-blah-blah blah-blah-blah!

 

[plintus]

By making sacrifices for love we usually mean choosing to move to a certain town instead of another, postponing your trip to Brazil because your girlfriend is undergoing surgery, spending one long evening out with her favorite aunt whom you despise.

Hey, if my ex was undergoing plastic surgery I'd surely stick around!

 

[rahvin]

Hey, if my ex was undergoing plastic surgery I'd surely stick around!

This almost makes it up for the "blah" post. Almost!

 

[plintus]

This almost makes it up for the "blah" post. Almost!

It's not THAT long

 

[Taliesin]

You're a wise man in many ways, but this example casts the rest of your theory in a light which makes it look neither wise nor plausible.

I dont think the examples are on the same level. I agree that the "extra mile" is necessary and kind of comes natural in a healthy relationship, Id spend that annoying evening with an annoying aunt as well if my GF asked me to do so, it's simply a question of respect. Which brings us to Villain's example.
Forcing someone to do something is blackmail and has nothing to do with a healthy relationship. If she really cared about you, she'd ask you not to listen to DT while she's around, but obviously she doesnt care, so telling her to fuck off would be the right move for me as well.

If by that he wanted to say though that sacrifices for love are "a waste" then Id have to disagree wholeheartedly though.. which was probably what he wanted to say, but I felt like pointing out the differences between the examples

@Plintus: Please dont do that anymore, thank you

 

[plintus]

Blah?

I've seen much in a short while, but that gives me right to say that where $$$ is involved you can stick up feeling up teh arse, even though in general it all depends at the end of the day. It's a different world now than what you thought it was, and hardly your significant other (or, I was so about to insert "u" there... damn jokes!) is that good you think he/she is.

How about - we all take shit. Now, imagine that holding her/him in your arms Extreme, huh?

Although, I'm happy about anybody who found someone and maintaining a healthy relationship. One of the reasons - it gives me strength to carry on with my single life

And - I'm cracking up reading all this, keep them coming

 

[Magrathean]

Tri:

The day after DT played on Evolution

Btw, Tri, i admire that firmness in you. Most people would change their oh-so-shapeable minds whenever someone else said something conflictive with what they think.

--

if one wants to travel half the world one way and marry another forum member - fine, good luck to them both, but the world wouldn't lose or gain anything if it didn't know about it.

Why don't you just click on that thing that says "ignore user" (or whatever it says)? Last i checked, a forum was a place for people to post anything they want as long as they don't break the rules. And, last i checked, i didn't break any rule by posting what i posted.

"Hey, I'm travelling from A to B to meet X, and it's so cool... and we are IN LOV!!!1!"

That you don't believe in that kind of love doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Then again, why am i telling you this? What's important is what it means to Ivana and to me, not to you or to any other forum member.

And thanks to all the forum members who sent good wishes.

--

edit: and something to our soon-to-be-wedded couple: obviously i wouldn't do it, but i admire people who are sure of themselves in that matter. even if you split up, and even if everyone will say "i told you so", if "right now" it's the decision you feel is right, don't let anyone hinder you.

*thanks you* We don't plan to let anyone hinder us, don't worry.

--

It will come rather "uneXpected" (Get it Kat? Rampy? 6 String? Anyone?)

I get it; does that count?

--

On another note, the next "feelings & random discussion - thread" could be named: Dear diary

Good idea. Now can we please turn this thread back into the DT Evolution bootleg thread? Thank you all very much.

 

[Taliesin]

Put it on a webspace and the thread can be closed

 

[plintus]

Put it on a webspace and the thread can be closed

But is it about that any longer? I think it turned into general discussion, fueled by you-know-what.

 

[Rincewind]

I apologise for reviving this but I just wanted to send my comments at last...

Jud: I agree, it's not much, but life taught me that time really isn't much of a certainty in getting to know people good. My parents are divorced, actually they're still fighting about property and making me and the rest in the family sick of them, UC's parents are also divorced. Before I met him, I had one really serious relationship that lasted 3 years and I never during that time even thought about marriage or anything close and I never knew that person as much as I know UC. I was strictly against marriage, drawing conclusions, as everybody, from near examples (my parents) and swearing that that paper will never come near my eyes. But then I met somebody who made many of my thoughts about love turn completely the other way and made me realize that time doesn't mean much when you find someone you truly love. Yes, I don't know him completely and he can always surprise me with some unexpected ( ) reaction, but so can my best friend whom I know for years. Does that make or ever will make her any less my best friend on which I know I can always count on and which I really love? No, it doesn't... I also know people who got married and divorced so quickly, but then again, I also know people who dated for years, married and got divorced with same speed as the first ones, or ones who did both of cases with luckier result. As he said, we don't plan to marry so soon and I agree that we won't lose anything by waiting some time because we already anyway know that we want to spend our lives together and that our living with or without that paper will be exactly the same.

rahvin and all others that were "rolling on the floor laughing": He / we didn't want to replicate anything. It has far more to do with the reason that I like really little rings, LOTR one including ( yes, because it's ring from my favorite book, but more because it's one of the rare ones that actually look good to me) and that there were no others near in the moment when UC decided to be crazy one more time ( I think it also has to do with the reason it was cheap ).

Zack, Lil', Marduk,Siren and 6SF: Many many thanks

King Chaos: I didn't want to fall in love in a guy on other continent or change my life so much because of that or because I was dying to sacrifice for somebody, but that just happened and I wouldn't change it for nothing in the world. Also, I don't feel like I'm sacrifying anything because I get so much more in return. And funny, when I saw your first reply on this theme, my thoughts were something like "Wow, some bitch really hurted this guy" (what, even funnier, was true)...point is, before she did that, you did believe in love, so don't draw conclusions from one bad example - I almost did that and missed the best thing in my life. Be careful and don't trust everything you hear, but also give somebody a chance. You can't live with certainty in almost anything, does that mean that you shouldn't even try?!

plintus: Your romantic comments are always welcome. You're cracking us up too

Tri: Ah, hopeless romantic ...I was nicely surprised by your posts, it's good to know that more people believe in importance of love. Thanks on good wishes. And imagining you and rahvin was priceless

Tali: We took our chance and we change our lives to be able to be together because we know it's worth it. We also took a lot of risks to be able to do that (not including getting married one day and that being one of lesser ones). But we don't look it as risking, that's all. I agree with you that love needs a lot of work, investing, responsibility and many other things to work out good, but I don't agree that there is no The One. Of course, I talk from MY experience and point of view.

Vulture Culture: Thanks...I completely agree with you. And I always liked more to hear sometimes "I told you so" then not to try at all anyway. We don't live if we don't "risk".

Villain: I think that you still didn't feel it. Hope one day you'll understand what silly people all around you value so terribly high. Also, concerning neglecting some things when you're a part of a couple: I think that in a good relationship you don't need to neglect anything from your former life (of course, taking in concern that before you weren't one-night-stands freak). Everything can be talked about and agreed with the right person. Yes, sometimes you neglect some things unintentionally or because you would just rather spend that time with your darling and not, like before, with your friends or whatever, but you can find balance in everything in a good relationship and have all the things similar to before + a great person to make you happy as a bonus.

 

[Kovenant84]

Skimming through here made me glad I came back long enough to give a 'congrats' to you guys. Now, I shall disappear!

<smokebomb>
~kov
</smokebomb>

 

[Tritonus]

@Trit: I don't know, how old are you? Hypocritically, now that I'm in a relationship with someone who's 7 years younger than me, I set my requirements in terms of age to precisely no more than that. So we have no future if you're 21 or younger, sorry.

Ok, I recantly turned 16 But I still do not believe that we could not get married as a concequence of your principles. If you would meat me you would might have found me ugly or you would might have found me the most wonderful creature you have ever seen in you comparatively long life (comparing to me then)

Btw, Tri, i admire that firmness in you. Most people would change their oh-so-shapeable minds whenever someone else said something conflictive with what they think.

Well if I would adjust myself o everybody else everybody would love me and I would always have had a BF and no need for my standingpoints But thank you

Tri: Ah, hopeless romantic ...I was nicely surprised by your posts, it's good to know that more people believe in importance of love. Thanks on good wishes. And imagining you and rahvin was priceless.

Yeah, and put the stress on "hopeless"

...........and why can't anybody see me and Rahvin get married?



BTW Since this is kinda a DT-bootleg-thread:

The 26:th of april and 6:th of july there was an interview with Stanne and I need that to write an essay..... Any sweds or anything who knows where to find it?


BTW 2: This is da best thread eva!

 

[King Chaos]

I wouldn't change it for nothing

Me neither. I wouldn't not say love doesn't exist ever because that's not the unromantic guy I am.

(what, even funnier, was true)

Well I guess I'm glad in a way that somebody found it funny... See, you can't really believe in love if it amuses you to hear the entire concept has been forever destroyed for someone. Especially someone as charming and likeable as me. (ok, I know that's not really what you meant... unless you really were just being malicious... in which case... ouch!)

point is, before she did that, you did believe in love, so don't draw conclusions from one bad example

We've sort of been over this... but again... Drawing conclusions from one bad experience can be validified depending on the circumstance and nature of the experience.

Heres some examples...

The first time you go bowling... you bowl a 50 and you think you should never ever bowl again to avoid the embarassment. WRONG! You should! Because it'll get better and the nature of the game is trial and error. You will improve. And there's no emotional connection to bowling, so what's going to really go wrong?

Another example:

The first time someone tells you a fence is electrified... you touch it out of curiousty and as a result think, Im never touching an electric fence again. RIGHT! All you do is cause yourself inevitable temporary pain. It's stupid. I wish I never touched that fence. It hurt.

Now above are two circumstances where your negative experiences can define your choice in ever endevoring in similar such experiences again. Heres an example closer to love (or at least as I see it):

Someone has greased up a diving board. It's 15 feet high and the plunge is into a nice and deep pool below. You can dive off, execute a perfect front flip into a lovely straight dive, and you'll be a legend and feel great about it fo the rest of your life. Or you'll slip on the grease, smash the back of your head on the board and twist in the air as you fall face first towards the water which rises up to meet you with an incredibly scarring force.

Ok... Maybe for "love" it's worth the initial risk.

But if the first time You cracked your skull open...

You wouldn't be too keen to climb the ladder and take the plunge again.

 

[rahvin]

@Taliesin: I concur with all of your points. You quoted me because you agreed and your remarks were aimed at Villain, right?

@Trit: It's really not a consequence of my principles, if I even have any. But I do believe - joking aside - that it'd be a lot harder for me to fall for someone who's 16: there's the fact that I would never feel comfortable being intimate with a girl that much younger, and there's the fact that our lifestyle would be completely different, and there's the fact that even if you're very mature for your age, 16 is very unlikely to be 29. Of course a different pairing, such as 25 - 38 could be a different story: I'm not 38 so I don't know yet.

What I'm saying here is that I do not believe in an ideal of love unconditional that appears out of nowhere despite all reason: I could love somebody only based on my interaction with them, the interesting/funny things we do or say and how well we relate to each other. It's not "Oh well, I love her for some reason so forget the fact she's a chain-smoking 55-year-old mother of four with borderline schizophrenia!"

----

Like the original poster suggested, let's move this to the random chat thread. Quote any of the previous posts and reply to it over there, guys. Further posts on this subject on this thread will be moved to the chat thread. This is now again about DT at the Evolution Festival.