These guys are spot on about using your diaphram but you've also get a basic feel for the where to push the air from your throat. Best thing I ever heard on this was a description of "vocal fry" which is what some guys like to employ in hardrock music- growling is just an extreme form of that. Pretend like you've just gotten up and sort of moan from the back of your throat- completely different location then either your singing or speaking voice and it sounds groggy and dirty without much air at all. Growl from there, get your air from your gut, use your mouth to shape the pitch. You can change tones like you would with singing or talking for a different sound but that's typically more harmful to your voice than it is to just use your mouth shape.
DEATH GROWLING?
- Thread starter chocolategorecake
- Start date
evilmanny
industrial sandwich maker
JBroll said:
Mmmm, well interestingly enough, I swear i heard effects on her vocals when i saw AE a few years back at the underworld.
a roadie came out to the front with angela's mic, tried a few words and stopped.
It really sounded like an extreme flanger or something like that - a kind of 'bubbling' sound... It was really noticeable when the roadie was checking the mic, but a lot less noticeable when it was angela. I've used the effect a few times on industrial records to get that "skinny puppy" vibe. I know that sung (pitched) you can tell a lot more its effected than growled or shouted when It just adds a bit of depth and grit.
No idea if its something she really uses or not though.
All that said, I did have a really long conversation with her and AJ from Soil at this years download, as we waited for Metallica to get off their asses and play.
I never knew she went through so much shit just to make sure her voice was performing well... poor girl, doesn't even drink or eat much on tour. (neither does AJ for that matter).
The things we do for art, huh?
Sinister Mephisto
1337
- Sep 20, 2005
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Well, i just finished recording a song and i attempted the "death growl". Please give it a listen and tell me if it's descent. www.myspace.com/endanera12. first song. Thanks guyz ur all fukin' awesome. (and im sorry if my style of music doesnt suit ur taste just bare through it haha)
Thornspawn
Member
I remember when I was 16 and I heard bands like Cannibal Corpse, Morbid Angel, Mortician, Suffocation. These guys amazed me with their ability to do the "growls" and I wanted to be able to do it just like them. But I just couldn't. I tried, but only crap would come out of my mouth 
. But I didn't give up. I tried and tried and tried (never pushing my limits too far and taking everything step by step). After quite some time I managed to get a hold of it, without any help or tips from anyone else. I'd like to post a before and after clip but I don't have the "before" one So here is something I done recently for the Bloodbath audition (I hope the link still works):
http://free-st.t-com.hr/zarda/eaten.mp3
Cheers,
Dave
. But I didn't give up. I tried and tried and tried (never pushing my limits too far and taking everything step by step). After quite some time I managed to get a hold of it, without any help or tips from anyone else. I'd like to post a before and after clip but I don't have the "before" one So here is something I done recently for the Bloodbath audition (I hope the link still works):http://free-st.t-com.hr/zarda/eaten.mp3
Cheers,
Dave
fabz
www.respawn-inc.com
chocolategorecake said:
WTF?!?!?!
Man, go back listen to what she says and you will basically get it.
She just explaines how you do that style of "singing" without hurting your voice.
The important thing is: Don't push! If it's hurting, you're doing it wrong!
If you ever lose your voice, you're doing it wrong. There are NO effects that can replace a good vocalist. You can use a pitch shifter but that is lame and cheating...
Practise, practise, practise it will take some time... maybe years...
Kazrog
Kazrog, Inc.
I will chime in again to recommend Melissa Cross' Zen of Screaming DVD/CD. It's helped me infinitely more than any vocal coach I've ever had. Honestly - and I've had some legendary, expensive coaches who've helped major label artists!
The key is - do the 15 minute warm up CD EVERY DAY. Watch the DVD at least twice, I realize parts of it are redundant, annoying, etc., but just do it, internalize it, it's by far the most beneficial thing for my singing and growling ever.
The key is - do the 15 minute warm up CD EVERY DAY. Watch the DVD at least twice, I realize parts of it are redundant, annoying, etc., but just do it, internalize it, it's by far the most beneficial thing for my singing and growling ever.
sorceron
ken
yea you cant expect overnight success from the dvd. its something you gotta keep working on and practice every day. you didnt learn guitar in a day so its the same for vocals.
You guys are giving me hope! Especially Thornspawn, very nice dude!
I ordered up the Zen of Screaming DVD from Amazon, should be here soon.
I can basically do the real low whisper grunting, but everytime I try to project it, I can get like two words out before I'm afraid I'm going to destroy my throat.
I think that I have the potential to get a good growl down, I just need to practice more and seriously change my technique.
I've tried just breathing with my diaphragm just to get used to it, but everytime I try to inject a sound, I start to use my throat to form the sound. I hope the DVD helps me find where that sound is supposed to come from.....
I ordered up the Zen of Screaming DVD from Amazon, should be here soon.
I can basically do the real low whisper grunting, but everytime I try to project it, I can get like two words out before I'm afraid I'm going to destroy my throat.
I think that I have the potential to get a good growl down, I just need to practice more and seriously change my technique.
I've tried just breathing with my diaphragm just to get used to it, but everytime I try to inject a sound, I start to use my throat to form the sound. I hope the DVD helps me find where that sound is supposed to come from.....
J the TyranT
Thats just how it is...
Odd. I guess I was just born with it. I can do the harsh vocal shit relatively easily, and without messing my throat up -AT ALL-.
I honestly didnt know it was a hard thing to do... sucks that you guys are having issues. Wish I knew how to tell you how to do it, but... Ive never really thought about it. I DO know it certainly comes from the gut.. its not a throat issue at all.
Its almost like... when you're trying to yawn... how you try to get something out from inside... if you've ever done that on an airplane... but instead you let this low gutteral shit come out.. its odd... that's my best explanation.
Good luck.
I honestly didnt know it was a hard thing to do... sucks that you guys are having issues. Wish I knew how to tell you how to do it, but... Ive never really thought about it. I DO know it certainly comes from the gut.. its not a throat issue at all.
Its almost like... when you're trying to yawn... how you try to get something out from inside... if you've ever done that on an airplane... but instead you let this low gutteral shit come out.. its odd... that's my best explanation.
Good luck.
J the TyranT said:
How loud is this stuff supposed to be? I can do it quietly, like at a spoken-voice volume, but I can't really project it loudly. Is that where I'm screwing up? Trying to get it too loud?
KnifeVariable
quite a douchebag
Many death metal singers do indeed growl at spoken voice volume, same goes for a number of blackmetal or metalcore singers that "scream" at spoken volume. Easy for the throat, that for sure.
Personally I never liked this approach, it's like they're growling/"screaming" just for the genre's sake. Put some fucking passion into it! Yeah you'll fuck your throat up countless times, but keep trying and you'll get it right eventually, you'll be able to be loud without strain, to be heard without getting hurt. Know your limits, channel your emotions with care. That's the whole point really - to be in control of yourself, to walk the fine line between shining and burning out bigtime.
At least that's what I learned in my +-15 years of screaming in various d-beat/hardcore and (recently) metal bands. Melissa's DVD has (as others mentioned already) great warmup and breathing exercises plus a couple of interesting oddities (come on, everyone loves watching vocal cords move about, yes?), but the rest is up to you.
Perhaps not really ontopic but still, I hope that helps in some way!
J the TyranT
Thats just how it is...
stringy_ said:
I'd say, work on trying to push a bit more from the stomach, just to get a little more projection out of it... but NOT enough to fuck yourself up. As long as it sounds good, throw some gain on the mic and just do it at the volume you can.
Its better to "fake" it, or whatever anybody wants to call it, then to fuck your throat up.
J
egan. said:
It has become a skill..but it started out as bands without real singers. Same as rap vocals. The originals were born out of the lack of vocal talent.
Unfortunately, because rap took no real vocal talent the instruments in the mixes followed and eventually all musicians disappeared. Its not unlikely to hear what sounds like a 3rd grader playing keyboards in the background
A similiar thing is happening with this music. When talent is demanded...good groups get together. But because finding someone who can growl is a tad easier than finding Ronnie James Dio there is a lot of watered down stuff with 2 guys chomping down on their E string in some type of pattern for 4 minutes
and some people are actually excepting it
Ben Johnson
SSSSSSSSSSSSSS
If Melissa Cross is so great, why does her "scream" fucking SUCK? It's the most irritating, abrasive sound imagineable. It doesn't even sound like a scream at all - it sounds like Jim Carrey making "the most annoying sound in the world" in Dumb and Dumber. And her growl is weaker than any I've ever heard. Granted, she's a woman...but so is Angela.
So why should anyone listen to what she has to say if she can't even make what she's teaching sound good herself?
So why should anyone listen to what she has to say if she can't even make what she's teaching sound good herself?
Phase - my understanding is that rap came from what we'd more than likely call disco, funk, and soul - and we can at least say that the latter two required skill and talent. James Brown pulled the same stunts, and he was far from lacking in talent. I don't like rap, and I don't think the 'gangsta' wannabes have anything in the way of musical sensibility, but I can't stretch it that far. I don't know too much about the 'talent', as far as melodic singing, of early death vocalists - and I'm going to call a well-hidden bluff and say that I don't think you do either - but I do know that even the short snippets of "Bow to me faithfully, bow to me splendidly" suggest that David Vincent knew what he was doing with his voice, Cynic's Focus had some - while vocoderized - well-managed clean vocals, and plenty of bootlegs floating around suggest that Paul could handle himself well, Mikael Stanne of Dark Tranquillity threw around some great clean vocals... hmm.
I have to completely disagree that it's harder to find a melodic singer than a *good* growler - anyone classically trained or otherwise well-practiced can hold their own with a little familiarity with the music, and singing is a natural extension of the speaking done from months after birth, while death vocals are an entirely different discipline taking possibly as much control over breathing and throat control. Hell, come down to Austin or San Antonio and check out the classic rock throwbacks, those guys can belt - and then turn around and find me as many *good* grunters as you saw melodic singers. Bullshit. If you're talking about finding the man himself, yes, it'll be hard, but if you're looking for singers who can keep in tune and have a good range and tone, you're stretching it a bit.
Oh, and it's 'accepting'. Not 'excepting' - that would imply making an exception of something, which is the opposite of what you're trying to say. I'm just obsessive-compulsive, don't take it personally; spelling and improper word choice (too/two/to, accept/except, affect/effect, et cetera) drive me nuts.
Ben, I've wondered that too - but I'd be frightened if she could go from sounding like a pre-kindergarten teacher to a grizzly bear. I see it as being much more useful that she can use knowledge of anatomy - which I doubt Barney Greenway has - to explain how things *should* work. It would be much more helpful to anyone to have someone who may not scream but understands how it's done (which can be done from studying screamers, studying bears roaring, studying dogs barking, et cetera) than to have some well-known guy who you can't even understand and who has no idea what the hell he's doing himself trying to say 'well, you talk like this, and you growl like THIS, cholly ho'. To bring in a guitarist example, try watching an 80s 'instructional' video with a then-popular shredder playing lick after lick without understanding what he's doing, and then go to a jazz instructor who doesn't tear the fretboard up himself but who can pick apart technique flaws from a mile away at any speed. One will be useless, the other will make you a better player.
Jeff
I have to completely disagree that it's harder to find a melodic singer than a *good* growler - anyone classically trained or otherwise well-practiced can hold their own with a little familiarity with the music, and singing is a natural extension of the speaking done from months after birth, while death vocals are an entirely different discipline taking possibly as much control over breathing and throat control. Hell, come down to Austin or San Antonio and check out the classic rock throwbacks, those guys can belt - and then turn around and find me as many *good* grunters as you saw melodic singers. Bullshit. If you're talking about finding the man himself, yes, it'll be hard, but if you're looking for singers who can keep in tune and have a good range and tone, you're stretching it a bit.
Oh, and it's 'accepting'. Not 'excepting' - that would imply making an exception of something, which is the opposite of what you're trying to say. I'm just obsessive-compulsive, don't take it personally; spelling and improper word choice (too/two/to, accept/except, affect/effect, et cetera) drive me nuts.
Ben, I've wondered that too - but I'd be frightened if she could go from sounding like a pre-kindergarten teacher to a grizzly bear. I see it as being much more useful that she can use knowledge of anatomy - which I doubt Barney Greenway has - to explain how things *should* work. It would be much more helpful to anyone to have someone who may not scream but understands how it's done (which can be done from studying screamers, studying bears roaring, studying dogs barking, et cetera) than to have some well-known guy who you can't even understand and who has no idea what the hell he's doing himself trying to say 'well, you talk like this, and you growl like THIS, cholly ho'. To bring in a guitarist example, try watching an 80s 'instructional' video with a then-popular shredder playing lick after lick without understanding what he's doing, and then go to a jazz instructor who doesn't tear the fretboard up himself but who can pick apart technique flaws from a mile away at any speed. One will be useless, the other will make you a better player.
Jeff
Skyweaver
Shred or Die !
Use your breathing and support, stay off the throat as much as possible...think of it as a handbrake and use it where needed.
support, support, support...
Below is a decent book, covering screamers and growlers
Book Description
This is the first instructional singing book to address exclusively rock sining in the singer's own words. Learn what it takes to sing like a professional, maximize your vocal range, increase power, and avoid burnout. Learn what to do on the road before and after a show to maintain your rocking voice. All that and more as international stars such as Bruce Dickinson, Geoff Tate, and Joe Lynn Turner among others share their insider knowledge in "Pro Secrets of Heavy Rock Singing".
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/18...f=sr_1_23/104-8745888-0638355?ie=UTF8&s=books
ISBN: 1860744370
support, support, support...
Below is a decent book, covering screamers and growlers
Book Description
This is the first instructional singing book to address exclusively rock sining in the singer's own words. Learn what it takes to sing like a professional, maximize your vocal range, increase power, and avoid burnout. Learn what to do on the road before and after a show to maintain your rocking voice. All that and more as international stars such as Bruce Dickinson, Geoff Tate, and Joe Lynn Turner among others share their insider knowledge in "Pro Secrets of Heavy Rock Singing".
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/18...f=sr_1_23/104-8745888-0638355?ie=UTF8&s=books
ISBN: 1860744370
fabz
www.respawn-inc.com
Ben Johnson said:
She just shows you a way to do it without hurting yourself... . She's not in a band where she has to "sound good". Phil of All that remains, the Guy from Lamb of God, Shadowsfall, God Forbid and Corey from Slipknot use her technique btw. even Angela is a student of MC.
Her Video is about "beeing yourself" and "screaming like yourself" it's all about controling what you do. And not Melissas voice sounding good (but maybe she does when recorded). Period.
