digidesign's protools hd nov / dec upgrade special

AdamWathan said:
They are grouped though. If you draw a vertical line anywhere through the drum tracks, after you stretch them all that vertical line is still gonna pass through all the same points. Everything is strethed together, there is no way you will have phase issues. Sure it sounds shitty if you stretch too much but that's not because of phase...

Pardon the paint but look...
phase.JPG


The bottom stretched one is still just as in phase as the top one isn't it? Maybe I'm totally wrong and missing a detail but it seems to me like it would be fine... There are a lot of guys using EA for drums with no issues.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Elastic Audio doesn't actually stretch everything equally though, as you so elaborately illustrated :lol: It picks and chooses small sections of audio that it senses can be stretched or squished with minimal artifacts, thus creating phase issues between tracks...
 
For those that think EA is ok for drums, one day you will hear it's limitation and will cost you money (like when I spent a few days doing drums for Lasse, only to have to refund him several hundred $$$ because it wasn't good enough). After that you'll never go back to it. I bought Music Production Toolkit right after.

Artifacts with Beat Detective? You're obviously using the wrong fade shape or techniques. I'm only hearing artifacts when I have to change the tempo, and only after about 5 bpm slower. There shouldn't be artifacts with BD at all.

The better sound is ALWAYS worth the extra effort.

I use EA for vocal timing, guitars, bass, loops and percussion. Beat Detective for drums.
 
Aaron Smith said:
I'm pretty sure Elastic Audio doesn't actually stretch everything equally though, as you so elaborately illustrated :lol: It picks and chooses small sections of audio that it senses can be stretched or squished with minimal artifacts, thus creating phase issues between tracks...
Click to expand...

Thanks Aaron!
yeah...
what he said.:loco:
 
AudioGeekZine said:
Artifacts with Beat Detective? You're obviously using the wrong fade shape or techniques. I'm only hearing artifacts when I have to change the tempo, and only after about 5 bpm slower. There shouldn't be artifacts with BD at all.
Click to expand...

What fade shape are you using?
And if the drummer is pretty off and you have to move hits back (i.e. create space), you can certainly get some nasty artifacts because of the way it fills gaps... same as manual editing.
Sometimes it's good to get the drummer to record the song a few BPM slower and then speed up the tempo before you do edit smoothing. This will squish all your regions closer together and you'll have far less artifacts.
 
jval said:
What fade shape are you using?
And if the drummer is pretty off and you have to move hits back (i.e. create space), you can certainly get some nasty artifacts because of the way it fills gaps... same as manual editing.
Sometimes it's good to get the drummer to record the song a few BPM slower and then speed up the tempo before you do edit smoothing. This will squish all your regions closer together and you'll have far less artifacts.
Click to expand...

+1
 
darthjujuu said:
so, alright, stupid question, what exactly does the "region conform" button do differently that maintains phase relationship?
Click to expand...

Region conform isn't actually warping or stretching any audio, just moving regions to the grid and since all the regions are aligned and grouped they stay together when everything moves so everything stays in phase. I still can't imagine EA sounds that awful on drums when you have dudes like Kenny Gioia over at GS using it as his go to drum correction method instead of BD...
 
yea i just did a whole song for ryan and could not detect any artifacts...granted the drummer was supreme, and he just wanted quantized overheads/rooms and gogs for the rest so phase is way less of an issue...but goddamn that's disappointing if this is considered illegitimate cause it was so fackin easy
 
It depends from the drummer I suppose. I use EA for little quick corrections but BD for the big work. I usually use EA for kick tracks if there are complicated or monster hits, but I'll use BD also for kick next time.
The big problem for EA is the cymbals artifacts
 
digitaldeath said:
I imagine that Joey will primarily be using Beat Detective due to the consistancy of the end results.
Click to expand...

if beat detective is in any way similair to chopping every hit, and moving that hit on time, then crossfading the resulting gap, then yes, thats what i'll be doing.

i've tried stretching drum audio before. it only works when you're lucky.
 
Maybe this is just false advertising for the video, but from groove3.com:

"Kenny Gioia has done it again! This time Kenny focuses on Pro Tools 7.4’s incredible Elastic Time feature. You'll be amazed by how much you can bend and twist audio with no weird sounding artifacts when correctly using Elastic Time. Kenny shows you how on multi-tracked drums, bass, guitars, vocals, and more!"
 
What fade shape are you using?
Click to expand...

Trigger pad of 5ms, equal gain fade (the default) 5ms. Fades are always just to the left of the grid line, never over top of transients.

And if the drummer is pretty off and you have to move hits back (i.e. create space), you can certainly get some nasty artifacts because of the way it fills gaps... same as manual editing.
Sometimes it's good to get the drummer to record the song a few BPM slower and then speed up the tempo before you do edit smoothing. This will squish all your regions closer together and you'll have far less artifacts.
Click to expand...
Try nudging within region boundaries 5ms at a time.

I suppose you might run into problems when the tempo is really fast, and in those cases you'll hear EA completely fuck the sound immediately before even moving stuff. Sometimes you hear it immediately. I've used it a bunch of times on drums and it can take just as long as BD (but with far less hard drive slowdown) getting it to sound decent.

Kenny Gioia works on Pop records. There was a thread on the DUC from the past year where a guy sent tracks for Kenny to do his best EA work on and the result was inferior to Beat Detective.
Not that Kenny's videos shouldn't be watched by all, I think they're awesome.
 
AudioGeekZine said:
Trigger pad of 5ms, equal gain fade (the default) 5ms. Fades are always just to the left of the grid line, never over top of transients.


Try nudging within region boundaries 5ms at a time.

I suppose you might run into problems when the tempo is really fast, and in those cases you'll hear EA completely fuck the sound immediately before even moving stuff. Sometimes you hear it immediately. I've used it a bunch of times on drums and it can take just as long as BD (but with far less hard drive slowdown) getting it to sound decent.

Kenny Gioia works on Pop records. There was a thread on the DUC from the past year where a guy sent tracks for Kenny to do his best EA work on and the result was inferior to Beat Detective.
Not that Kenny's videos shouldn't be watched by all, I think they're awesome.
Click to expand...
where are the videos?
 
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