Do you all buy Opeth cd's?

[Shadows Skulk]

Say my collection consists solely of illegally downloaded Jimi Hendrix albums. His family, who gets his royalties, is rich already. Me buying the CDs won't even be a blip on their income. His band no longer exists, so me buying the CDs won't contribute to their future work.

I don't find having these mp3s immoral or unethical, but the law says it is illegal. How would this situation be resolved? Is it okay or not okay?

 

[gatedropper]

@NFU So , you are saying that it is OK for me to go to a P2P sharing hub and download
an entire cd if my intentions were that I was going to buy the thing if I liked it?
There are people getting busted for just this thing.
What if I delete it? The crime has already been commited.
It's just like going to someone's house and listening to a CD or borrowing it from him
with the intention of buying the thing.
There is no grey area here according to the RIAA( think that is what it is) and
they might as well make listening to a friends CD illegal too.

 

[NFU]

Say my collection consists solely of illegally downloaded Jimi Hendrix albums. His family, who gets his royalties, is rich already. Me buying the CDs won't even be a blip on their income. His band no longer exists, so me buying the CDs won't contribute to their future work.

I don't find having these mp3s immoral or unethical, but the law says it is illegal. How would this situation be resolved? Is it okay or not okay?

well, thats why your logic and morals are clouded by your greed.

just because they have money, doesnt mean they dont deserve the money to the music they legally own the rights to. if you have a problem with people who have money getting yours...then i suggest you immediately stop going to the movies, buying CDs, buying books, paying for gas for your car, or even driving a car, ordering a pizza, etc etc....all those things get your money...and you get their item or their service in exchange. its called the economy.

and if you decide that you deserve those things for free...then we lose the economy...and you then essentially have no more money to buy ANYTHING with anymore. so what seems like harmless pirating of some songs from your favorite artists...quickly turns into many people doing the same thing...and the music industry failing...or inflating ticketsales or merchandise in response, which will ultimately lead to you being unhappy in one way or another.

just because you feel someone doesnt "need" anymore money...doesnt mean youre right in stealing.


this concept really isnt that difficult people. honestly.

 

[NFU]

@NFU So , you are saying that it is OK for me to go to a P2P sharing hub and download
an entire cd if my intentions were that I was going to buy the thing if I liked it?
There are people getting busted for just this thing.
What if I delete it? The crime has already been commited.
It's just like going to someone's house and listening to a CD or borrowing it from him
with the intention of buying the thing.
There is no grey area here according to the RIAA( think that is what it is) and
they might as well make listening to a friends CD illegal too.

well, obviously there is no black and white for this situation. downloading a WHOLE album wasnt entirely my intention. i myself download a couple songs total with intention to buy...often times from legal designated sites with clips for this reason. P2P sharing has put a glitch in that theory, and lets people get everything..


we almost need a universal acceptance and system of people being able to download a few songs from any album, for the previewing purposes...that way the bands get heard...people know what theyre buying...and nobody gets hurt.

 

[gatedropper]

we almost need a universal acceptance and system of people being able to download a few songs from any album, for the previewing purposes...that way the bands get heard...people know what theyre buying...and nobody gets hurt.[/QUOTE]


Yes we do, but it won't ever be done like that cause you couldn't police
or monitor the situation. I found nothing wrong with downloading a couple of songs off of an album so I knew if I was going to buy the damn thing.
Now, I am afraid to do so cause of the impending lawsuits and fines.
I have bought far fewer cd's because of this. But it looks like it is
working just the opposite with the cd industry having the best year in the last 5 years sales wise.
I do listen to the little mp3's that Cd universe,baby,now,ect. put out.
They are not very representitive of the songs portrayed. I mean, a vocal band mp3 and you get the guitar intro for 15 seconds.
Write your Congressman!!!!!Um ( person )

 

[Seance]

i download mp3's of whatever band i'm looking at and if i like them or an album, i'll buy it eventually if i find it worthwhile

i obviously didn't discover opeth listening to the radio, or didn't see a video on TV, i downloaded a couple albums, eventually all of them... i loved them... but it's not like i can just pull $100+ out of thin air to go out and purchase them all immediately

i own MAYH, Still Life, and Damnation currently, and the Lamentations DVD, and plan on having all of the albums eventually, most likely BWP next ;-)

i really don't feel like 'taking a chance' on an album i may have heard one song of... i don't want to spend $20 on a whole album, in which half of it sucks

i've come to like a lot of bands through downloading an album or maybe a few albums of theirs... i just don't have the money to go buy every single one of them... it would happen over time... ultimately i plan on buying everything i like... really i love buying the albums... i love the look, art, the booklet, having the ownership and cd, and the full quality of the music, not some low-grade 50% quality mp3 rip... and just knowing i'm always going to have it

that iTunes thing is probably a good idea... i don't know much about it... isn't it like 99 cents per song? that would solve the "half the album sucks" problem... just buy the individual songs you like... but then again it's just not the same... iTunes would go better of course if you have an ipod or something ^_^

i also wouldn't very well rely on the song-clips on bands websites to preview an album because of 3 things:
1.) the song clip is usually 20 seconds long and that very well doesn't say much about the song
and/or
2.) the song clip has very crappy quality
3.) there usually aren't previews for all songs on the album
mp3's are full length and generally sound good

but actually i think i remember listening to a couple Porcupine Tree songs through their website and they were full length and actually sounded good... i'll have to go check that out... but for the most part that's been my experience with "song previews"

in general i think downloading is good for everyone... even the people who download everything and never buy anything isn't hurting anything really... if they were never going to buy the album to begin with... what does it really matter? if they like the band then they might spread the word and it could encourage someone else to check the band out, and they might actually buy an album

just my thoughts
there's no perfect system

i think i typed enough

 

[Nico]

Well I only own originals of MAYH and Orchid now. I sold the others, except for Morningrise which broke. I may buy it again one of these days... maybe.

 

[Kenneth R.]

just because you feel someone doesnt "need" anymore money...doesnt mean youre right in stealing.


this concept really isnt that difficult people. honestly.

robin hood. simple concept.


people will always want to listen to music.
people will always feel inspired to create music.

if the music "industry" as we know it fails, if the economy is destroyed, what will happen? short term chaos. negative effects. however, it's not the end of the world. a new system will have to take the place of the old when the old no longer works. you seem to be saying if i download a cd i'm encouraging world anarchy, which simply isn't realistic. even if it were true, our existence is marked by a seeking of equilibrium. things balance out. a new economy would be necessary, a new music industry definition. i don't think any of that will happen.

i do think good bands and bad bands alike suffer from downloading. i think good bands also benefit, and suffer less. as i stated above, i 100% support buying music from bands who impress me, and encourage the same for all listeners. on the flip side, i also advocate a little natural-selection. if a band or record label is horrid, why not enforce a little capitalism and remove the cancer from the system. it would improve the overall quality of music being released and is a healthy measure. you can't protect bands who sucked to begin with, no matter how advertised they are. there's no point in protecting the filthy rich penny-for-penny with millions starving in the streets on corners playing guitar for dinner.

and don't phrase your response in regards to the law. rebelling against england to form the united states was "illegal" at the time. setting free slaves in the 1800s was "illegal". the legality of this issue won't sway my views one inch.

sometimes a little robin hood is healthy.

 

[Eemu]

robin hood... or is it "communism"? Revolution of the proletariat, aye?

 

[NFU]

robin hood. simple concept.


people will always want to listen to music.
people will always feel inspired to create music.

if the music "industry" as we know it fails, if the economy is destroyed, what will happen? short term chaos. negative effects. however, it's not the end of the world. a new system will have to take the place of the old when the old no longer works. you seem to be saying if i download a cd i'm encouraging world anarchy, which simply isn't realistic. even if it were true, our existence is marked by a seeking of equilibrium. things balance out. a new economy would be necessary, a new music industry definition. i don't think any of that will happen.

i do think good bands and bad bands alike suffer from downloading. i think good bands also benefit, and suffer less. as i stated above, i 100% support buying music from bands who impress me, and encourage the same for all listeners. on the flip side, i also advocate a little natural-selection. if a band or record label is horrid, why not enforce a little capitalism and remove the cancer from the system. it would improve the overall quality of music being released and is a healthy measure. you can't protect bands who sucked to begin with, no matter how advertised they are. there's no point in protecting the filthy rich penny-for-penny with millions starving in the streets on corners playing guitar for dinner.

and don't phrase your response in regards to the law. rebelling against england to form the united states was "illegal" at the time. setting free slaves in the 1800s was "illegal". the legality of this issue won't sway my views one inch.

sometimes a little robin hood is healthy.

if youre comparing jacking a bands music for free so you can play it in your volvo while smoking out with your friends.....to setting slaves free or declaring our freedom and indipendence from britain...than you are completely dimented. no offense.

some laws were meant to be broken...those are ones which are immoral and unjust. theres ones that protect property and rights of work done by artists...those stand firm and are justified.

 

[atilla000]

well, thats why your logic and morals are clouded by your greed.

just because they have money, doesnt mean they dont deserve the money to the music they legally own the rights to. if you have a problem with people who have money getting yours...then i suggest you immediately stop going to the movies, buying CDs, buying books, paying for gas for your car, or even driving a car, ordering a pizza, etc etc....all those things get your money...and you get their item or their service in exchange. its called the economy.

and if you decide that you deserve those things for free...then we lose the economy...and you then essentially have no more money to buy ANYTHING with anymore. so what seems like harmless pirating of some songs from your favorite artists...quickly turns into many people doing the same thing...and the music industry failing...or inflating ticketsales or merchandise in response, which will ultimately lead to you being unhappy in one way or another.

just because you feel someone doesnt "need" anymore money...doesnt mean youre right in stealing.


this concept really isnt that difficult people. honestly.

People that just have loads of money sitting in their pocket have always been a bad thing for the economy. I suggest we don't support those people. Really, I mean it.

And Gatedropper: I don't think that anyone will come after you and kick you because you DL'd a couple of songs. Only if you'd put them on your website it would be worth chasing you.

 

[Kenneth R.]

if youre comparing jacking a bands music for free so you can play it in your volvo while smoking out with your friends.....to setting slaves free or declaring our freedom and indipendence from britain...than you are completely dimented. no offense.

some laws were meant to be broken...those are ones which are immoral and unjust. theres ones that protect property and rights of work done by artists...those stand firm and are justified.

first off, i don't own a car.
secondly, i don't smoke.
so please, keep the sweeping generalizations and patronizing to yourself.

now, onto the argument.
there is no black and white, your side, my side crap here. i'm not a guy who goes and downloads 1343242850 albums and laughs in the face of the artists i love just cause i can. you seem to think i am, because i disagree with you. this is not the case. this is the second time in this thread you've called someone demented, and you have yet to even spell it right.

i am an avid buyer of music i support, including dvds, concert tickets, etc etc (we all know making a list of this crap doesn't matter but you seem to care). my argument is NOT a personal one.

i am saying that, there are many people out there who despise downloading, and those who love it, legally and otherwise. my argument is that while "ripping off" bands does hurt them, it hurts big-name artists a lot more than underground scenes. this is because of a simple fact: big name artists cds tend to cost more, and are easily accessible in stores. many people like them, but don't want to buy their cds so they download it- a process that is made easier by the sheer immensity of those who have the cd in question. thus more shares will be available, and more easily downloaded.

i dare you to go on a p2p network and first type: britney spears. see how many results you get. next, type spock's beard. see how many results you get. that kind of music is much more difficult to "rip off" in the first place, so if someone manages to find one song and like it, they might just be compelled to buy the cd.

also. as atilla000 said, there is no reason why we should feel compelled to protect the rich from losing money. not to say we should bring them down, but instead allow them to fall if they are in position to do so. this is capitalism. survival of the fittest. if a band is no longer fit to be rich and famous, there's no reason to "protect their rights". communism? it certainly isn't, and neither am i. there is no reason why we should feel compelled to obey laws without questioning their purpose and morality.

i am not arguing for "ripping off" legitimate artists. acts who are releasing material just to make money, thats' what i'm against. i am saying that there are people who rip off good bands, and people who rip off bad bands. the popular bands get ripped off more, and are more hurt by this. i see no problem with this system, since it encourages popular bands to create work worth buying, and promotes obscure bands.

before you slam your "righteousness" at this thread again, consider how many people would never have heard of Opeth without downloads or sharing, or Bloodbath or any other 'obscure' band. then consider how much pressure is on people like Metallica, Ashlee Simpson, and others to make a good record, or be pirated or ignored alltogether.

 

[NFU]

Look kenneth. I never really intended to offend you personally, but i did find it quite appalling that you were justifying your internet downloading by comparing it to slavery and americas independence...i dont think im alone on that either.

Either way, now that youre the almighty mp3 robinhood/church going/spelling police...here is my retort:


My job...which i enjoy and take seriously, but is very hard work...is very much in the world of business. So from that perspective, i am probably coming at this from a completely different (and more sympathetic to the artist and record companies) angle than you are. I also know that our economy is crap right now...and thats due to a lot of different things. I also know that record sales are up now. But before you ask me to re-evaluate my opinion based on the fact that without MP3 downloading bands like Opeth would still be relatively unknown...that i appreciate and understand entirely. And if you had bothered to pay attention so far in this thread (instead of worrying so much about my spelling and your robin hood complex), youd realize that i do support MP3s in a preview/small term basis for the reason of getting into new bands and advertising/exposure. I do not however, support those who plan on pirating entire albums and never giving a cent for anything. If this isnt you...then good, so be it, and more power to you, sorry if i made it seem like i thought you were. If i did, its because you were resenting my own opinion so much, that i had no alternative but assume that you were the opposite due to the backlash.

On another note...i am also a musician...and can sympathize with other musicians who may like Mp3s for getting their music out there, but are very torn with people who abuse that to escape paying for their work. This i hope YOU can understand as well.

What many people (maybe you kenneth) also dont realize, is that if a band doesnt sell records due to MP3s...not ONLY does it hurt them financially...but a record company sees that as the band not selling very well, and thus not being marketable. That may cause the label to do less for the band, or drop them from the label entirely, thinking that theyre wasting their time or no longer a money maker.

Now id appreciate it if you take THAT into account before you download your next few albums from a P2P sharing program. Rich record companies may not need your money...but century media/nuclear blast/roadrunner/music for nations/relapse, etc all do, they are NOT made of money like big labels...thats how YOU get to see your favorite bands Live in the first place.

 

[Kenneth R.]

(cut for length-K.)

don't know how many times i need to say it, but once again, this is not a personal argument. I, ME, YO, whatever language it's gotta be said in, do NOT rip off albums. ever. i (like you) am more inclined to the "preview" perspective, and then buy albums. my argument is based on a larger part of society, who do not share our viewpoint. i too am a musician. i know what that means.

i'm merely stating that to try and force the situation to remain as it is or revert to a previous state is not a plan that will work. artists, labels, and consumers are changing the way industry works and that change is not undoable. yes, i think people should be respectful and responsible when and if they download music. but, i disagree that we somehow owe the industry something for hearing music. nobody (aside from sirius, xm) pays for radio, and we listen to the radio often. when you go to a party and music is blaring, there's nobody being paid for that play-time. when i go to my friend's house and we listen to music that he owns, but i do not, i do not feel compelled to pay for it unless i choose to own it myself. i believe atilla000 also said that.

i'm not a self-centered prick who couldn't care what the artists get, i'm all for artists. but, would you buy a painting if it sucked? no. would you be charged just to see it? i don't think you'd allow that. art is a subjective thing, and to quantify it objectively is difficult. to say, all artists deserve money and credit for their work--- if said work is not worth my money, it won't recieve it.

the best combat to "illegal" downloading an artist or label can do these days is, release an album so fucking good that listeners feel they must buy it, and if they include other items such as a nice booklet, pictures or whatever, that is also good incentive.

 

[atilla000]

Anyway, after watching this marvellous piece of art, you will all know which art is worth it's money. This guy offers the short-movie completely for free on his website, but I think he's pretty sure that he'll touch many people right in their heart, and they'll buy the DVD (I also seriously consider buying it). That's the way it should be. Point.

http://www.gethappy.com/watchmore.html

 

[Lord_AgathoN]

Thanks Kenneth, thats what i meant............i agree 100%. But NFU will still see it as breaking the law which you could not agree with

 

[dorian gray]

hmm. good arguments from all sides.
i just want to say that it's a bit hasty to laugh at the idea of magazine reviews. that's how i learned about opeth. i read an article and went and bought BWP. i've done that with virtually every band i listen to. i have NEVER downloaded a song from the internet (granted, i have dial-up heh heh). i've never had a need. i dont fucking care enough. you guys who MUST have thousands and thousands of songs and albums - go fucking buy them. i cant stand to hear people complaining that they dont have enough money. i would suggest getting a job would be a good start as well as maybe making music a lesser priority.

i think it's sad that this thread's question even has to be asked. on opeth's own forum no less. i think the internet has spawned an entire generation of sneaky, whimpy, backstabbers - whether downloading porn so you dont have to get off your chair and nurture a real relationship or stealing music so you dont have to get a job and drive to your local CD store. i implore you: go to a CD store and take some albums off the rack and just walk out without paying for them. see what happens and note the reactions of other paying customers. and i ask you: how is that different from downloading shit from the internet? how is that justifiable with twists of logic? it's not. it's illegal and you're lazy and apathetic.

 

[Kenneth R.]

whether downloading porn so you dont have to get off your chair and nurture a real relationship ...

there are such people?

i implore you: go to a CD store and take some albums off the rack and just walk out without paying for them. see what happens and note the reactions of other paying customers. .

i'd like to see someone actually try that. really i would. it'd make my day. lmao.

 

[dorian gray]

^

 

[cthulufhtagn]

holy crap i wish i had a relationship like in a porno....
"hey hon, pizza's here"
"mmm, come fuck me in the ass...wait, first let me call a few of my girlfriends..."