Do you think it matters more...

[Erik]

Everyone is claiming that $15 prices are outrageous when they justify downloading...so obviously I thought they meant Cd's found in mainstream stores. If the price is only $8 - $10 bucks or whatever from mail order places, then why aren't people quoting that price?

You're talking to the wrong person. You were arguing that a $15 or $20 price ISN'T outrageous, which it is, and I have attempted to explain why.

I have never said anything in this thread about the morality of downloading music, but for the record: no, I do not think you should download music from UNDERGROUND labels. I don't have any sympathy for "lost sales" for major label executive cunts.

 

[Erik]

What's a fair price of a CD according to you then? And how does it get distributed? Perhaps you have a reasonable site?

Scott

I think $8-10 is reasonable. www.darksymphonies.com is a quality example ($8 for all full-length CD's, $5 for MCD's, great selection)

 

[SheisMySin]

I personally buy used normally for $10 - 15....

That is a smaller label, no? I'm assuming (correct me if I am wrong) that the site only sells bands from that label? Seems fairly logical that there is not a lot of demand or relative quantity of those CD's...which would force the price of the CD's down. Costs are just not a lot.

Unless your point of view is that if you're going to buy a CD from a smaller label, then you're better off going directly through them instead of larger CD stores.

Scott

 

[Erik]

IThat is a smaller label, no? I'm assuming (correct me if I am wrong) that the site only sells bands from that label?

You're assuming wrong, which you would have seen if you looked through their selection (just click on the letters to see a list of what they have)

Seems fairly logical that there is not a lot of demand or relative quantity of those CD's...which would force the price of the CD's down. Costs are just not a lot.

Ever heard of supply & demand? FREE MARKET ECONOMICS 101: INCREASED DEMAND LOWERS PRICES. INCREASED QUANTITY LOWERS PRICES. Therefore, by all logic, mainstream releases should be CHEAPER than underground releases. They aren't. Why? It's VERY SIMPLE. Every major label on the planet is completely ripping off 1) you, the customer and 2) the artist, unless they're one of the very, very few who sell enough to actually make money off a release.

 

[CAIRATH]

Didn't we just have a thread pretty much on this subject like a week ago? I wrote a whole bunch of shit and almost no one really responded to it so I'm not going to do that again. But in summary:

People who download music without the intent to ever buy stuff they like can fucking die. Especially if they try to somehow rationalise it with some bullshit "no it's okay because I'm fighting the system" story. If you download music and never buy anything you're a thief and a total asshole for not supporting the bands who made the music that you are enjoying so much. And yes "blah blah the artist gets almost nothing" but atleast he gets to keep his record contract and a label that will pay his studio bills and let him tour a little. So shut up and buy your damn records whenever you can.

As far as underground music goes anyway. For major labels stuff works differently but most major labels also release absolute rubbish 99% of the time so who really cares either way.

 

[SheisMySin]

>>>>Ever heard of supply & demand? FREE MARKET ECONOMICS 101: INCREASED DEMAND LOWERS PRICES. INCREASED QUANTITY LOWERS PRICES.

Stop being such a dick, just because we are having a discussion and I am wrong on a few things. I'll admit I don't know everything and am learning from you, so just stop acting like you know everything too, because you obviously do not.

There are 3 basic laws in regards to Supply and Demand. You nailed one, and got the other completely reversed.

The law of supply states as quantity increases, so does price. This covers the increased cost of production.

Please look up "law of supply" in yahoo and get your facts straight.

Scott

 

[metal paddy]

DOWNLOADING IS OK BUT YOU MUST BUY ALBUMS TOO I HAVE ABOUT 300 CDS AND IAM PROUD OF MY COLLECTION I DOWNLOAD TO SEE IF I LIKE THEN I GO AND BUY I IT! I USE C D wharehouse they can get nearly anything you ask for and at good price bruv

 

[Erik]

>>>>Ever heard of supply & demand? FREE MARKET ECONOMICS 101: INCREASED DEMAND LOWERS PRICES. INCREASED QUANTITY LOWERS PRICES.

Stop being such a dick, just because we are having a discussion and I am wrong on a few things. I'll admit I don't know everything and am learning from you, so just stop acting like you know everything too, because you obviously do not.

There are 3 basic laws in regards to Supply and Demand. You nailed one, and got the other completely reversed.

The law of supply states as quantity increases, so does price. This covers the increased cost of production.

Plese look up "law of supply" in yahoo and get your facts straight.

Nope. You're wrong. As supply increases, price decreases. This is VERY SIMPLE to understand if you think about it, and can be illustrated very easily. Suppose there are very few PEARS produced, but demand for pears is greater than the supply because pears are really tasty. The price of pears will go UP. Now, if demand is constant but supply increases, the SUPPLY is GREATER than the DEMAND, and prices will FALL because the pear growers will want to get rid of all their pears, and at a lower price a good or service will sell better. VERY SIMPLE.

law of supply
Definition

If demand is held constant, an increase in supply leads to a decreased price, while a decrease in supply leads to an increased price.

http://www.investorwords.com/2736/law_of_supply.html

You were saying?

 

[CAIRATH]

CD prices have stayed pretty much the same for a long time, despite inflation. For as much as one listens to a CD, they are a really great bang for the buck.

I don't know where you live, but where I live (the Netherlands) they absolutely haven't. When I was a kid a new 'popular' CD cost 39,99 guilders ($23). Right now a new 'popular' CD in the same store costs 21,99 euro ($28).

I don't really ever buy CDs in local stores here since I import pretty much everything from the US. Mainly due to the stuff I want simply not being available here, but also because buying stuff from the US is still cheaper than buying it here, even with s&h added, so basically I buy European import CDs from the US for cheaper than I can buy European CDs at a store here in Europe. Funny eh?

The point being... CD prices have *far* from remained the same here, and are infact quite ridiculous. But I still don't think that is a valid excuse for not buying albums since you can quite easily get them cheaper from other places and these prices mainly apply to new popular stuff anyway (which is mostly rubbish).

 

[SheisMySin]

http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp

lol...if you want to start throwing clauses to your original statement like "demand being constant" then add that to your post.

Why does supply (the quantity that sellers produce) rise as the price rises and fall as the price falls? The reasons really are quite logical. First, consider the case of a company that makes a consumer product. Acting rationally, the company will buy the cheapest materials (not the lowest quality, but the lowest cost for any given level of quality). As production (supply) increases, the company has to buy progressively more expensive (i.e., less efficient) materials or labor, and its costs increase. It has to charge a higher price to offset its rising unit costs.


I'm taking an economics class now, and this is all we've been studying...so whatever. How many sites did you go to before you found one that fit your need? We're talking about SUPPLY....and you're still talking about supply and demand.

Scott

 

[SheisMySin]

>>>>The point being... CD prices have *far* from remained the same here, and are infact quite ridiculous.

That's interesting, Cairath. I live in the US, and they for the most part have hovered around 12-16 for the past 20 years.

Scott

 

[skeptik]

Except for the fact that they cost more than that now.

 

[Erik]

lol...if you want to start throwing clauses to your original statement like "demand being constant" then add that to your post.

What would you suggest then? Variable demand? Raised demand? Lowered demand? Magical mystery demand? How would that be useful in any way whatsoever? I'm talking about the concepts as applied to the topic we were talking about, and you have yet to prove me wrong on ANY SINGLE POINT I've made in this thread.

How many sites did you go to before you found one that fit your need.

First or second hit in Google, I think. You'll see that my post was made within 3 minutes from yours, so I can't have taken all that long, can I?

I'm taking an economics class now, and this is all we've been studying...so whatever.

How the fuck can you make such an utterly retarded statement as...

Seems fairly logical that there is not a lot of demand or relative quantity of those CD's...which would force the price of the CD's down.

...if you know what you're talking about?

 

[SheisMySin]

>>>What would you suggest then? Variable demand?

That makes sense, doesn't it? I mean...everything I saw on that label indicated that they sold CD's that were not just not mainstream, but very underground. They don't need to produce a lot, because they don't sell a lot. Their costs will be much cheaper than larger labels who need to produce a lot more CD's and get more coverage for their bands.

If more people wanted to buy from that website, do you think the prices would change or stay the same? Supply would increase to keep up with the demand...and that would mean costs for the label would increase.

 

[Erik]

Yeah, you're pretty much absolutely clueless and incapable of logical thought so this ends here. I've already answered everything you ever had to offer and you're just regurgitating the imaginary straws you're clutching at at this point.

 

[SheisMySin]

lol...agreed.

Must be nice to be able to twist economic principles and laws around in order to back up your opinions. Thank god I don't process thoughts and opinions like you - then I'd always be right, and never learn shit.

I'm all for being wrong and changing my mind as long as I get some good evidence and facts, but clinging to one website out of a billion that is the opposite of the law is just retarded. I was open to listening, but you're just being a dick.

http://www.econweb.com/MacroWelcome/sandd/notes.html#2

With all these sites, you could have at least said "hmm...okay, obviously there is something to his logic since it is a FREAKING ECONOMIC LAW lol...let's see why we differ...." But nope....you just want to close your mind. Even your other essay website...so completely biased and one sided.

That's cool...typical from what I expect here.

Scott

 

[Under The Oak]

I've been fucked over by bad recommendations too many times to not download music. I buy albums if I really, really, really like 'em and they must also be inexpensive. Also, it has to have some sort of value to the packaging. If it's like Immortal's "Pure Holocaust", which I was disappointed to find they just had a two page black insert with white text and nothing else - then I don't feel that my money has been worth it. Yes the music fuckin' rules, but I'd just as soon download the whole CD for free without packaging then pay for the crappy packaging.

However, if it's got some cool artwork inside, or even if it's just got band photos or anything but a boring two color scheme, then I might buy it. This especially goes for Dream Theater, with the insert stuff they've had on their last album and some of others. I like it when bands at least put forth a little effort to give you your money's worth and to make you want to own their CD for more reasons than just the music.

 

[skeptik]

Yeah, because everyone (especially Immortal a decade and a half ago) can afford to produce an elaborate booklet from their money bagging groceries.

 

[Under The Oak]

I don't mean that they have to have fancy elaborate booklets, smartass. Just that they should have something more than a single piece of paper for it. If they can't afford it, maybe they should hold off on releasing the album until they can build up enough money to make it look better than shit.

 

[SheisMySin]

I still buy cd's, but I just throw away the jewel case and artwork. After 500...it just gets freaking heavy to move and store.

Scott