Does "anyone" like Reroute?

[Arch]

ok, thread ownership and bans have been mentioned so that's where i jump in with yet another sanctimonious lecture. go me!

now, this thread is composed of posts where different people have expressed their view. the content of each post is the poster's responsibility. however, you're all accepting to make what you said public over the internet and it was clear from the start you won't get royalties for it. if someone comes here and steals your words you can only resort to laws based in the country you live in to protect your "work". i pretty much doubt the site itself accepts liability. i for once don't.
technically, those who have contributed all own a part of this thread. still i find it almost hilarious that it should come to a discussion about international law on published material.
i mean, come on everybody! inflames626's intentions - correct me if i'm wrong - were to point out that he intends to claim control over the direction this thread is/will be going given the fact that he's the one who started it and it's his only thread so far (which should quiet down any "you're taking over" complain"). there's no need to give him a rough time for that too. everybody's free to add his opinion the way he/she likes it best, but so is inflames626 allowed to wish the discussion would follow the path he had meant it to.

as for banning, this is either my, hedon's, or mark's personal decision. it's not based on popularity, it's based on the user's will to abide to a few simple rules. there is currently no rule against flames/insults on this forum: inflames626, salamurhaaja, arch, and everybody else here (except for me) is on the same level and can therefore both insult and be insulted. unless it becomes an all-round series of "fuck you!" "no, fuck you!", no censorship will operate. if things really get out of hand i'll first ask you to stop, then delete some posts, and only resort to ban anybody if he/she perseveres. we - meaning the band (who owns this forum as in: they pay for it) and i - feel that the removal of messages due to explicit content alone would result in a violation of users' freedom of speech.
to cut a long story short, nothing in this thread needs to be censored so far, not inflames626 behaviour nor salamurhaaja interventions.
it was perhaps in villain's intentions to point out that it's pretty hard to even think about banning old, stable, productive members of this community like salamurhaaja, whereas it's easer to think of a new guy as a potential troublemaker whose attitude could be disruptive for forum activities. but that was just in case inflames626 was to break any rule around here, which he didn't so far and seems to have absolutely no intention of doing.

Fuck you. No fuck you.

 

[rahvin]

Fuck you. No fuck you.

not all-round enough.

 

[Inflames626]

Just what I thought. Another same old rant. The same old shit seems to leak out everytime you type. You seem to be obsessed and preoccupied with music, people, and art that isn't your certain cup of tea. Yeah, I've met people who have preoccupying thoughts. They went to see a shrink. I suggest you get some mental help before you start shooting innocent people. If you are still getting mental help, get some more.

You're complaining now because you're unable to prove any new concept in metal past distortion and the fast 16th note.


And you don't believe my story? Aaron, the one who talks out of his ass, don't believe my story. How ironic. Are you calling me a liar? What do you know about my U.S. history professor? Can you at least tell me his first and last name, all-knowing-Aaron?
Computer programmers are more than code monkeys. Believe it or not, there are styles and method to programming, may not seem as artsy-fartsy as music and art, but if you can understand programming (which you don't because you gave up), it's there.

"Art" in programming is why people like engines and license them. Saves money and development time if you license the Half-life 2 engine for your game. The style of the engines are all different. Never said programming wasn't an art, just the anonymity of a networking specialist.
As before, I'm not a mind reader, and your desperation to win the argument has me wondering about validity of statements.


I don't disagree that 1 Mother Teresa has done social good 10x more than Bono. But, good for Mother Teresa for being a 1979 Nobel Prize Peace Laureate winner. Good for David Hewsen aka Bono for having recognitions and receiving awards.

Good for him too. But still, does he really know what he's talking about, aside from appearing at press conferences?

Anyhow, here's some more copy-and-paste job from rotten.com about Mother T.:
"In December 1971, India and Pakistan fought a bloody 15-day war, resulting in the creation of Bangladesh. In the aftermath, horrific stories of war crimes abounded. The Pakistanis had perpetrated ruthless genocide against the local Hindu population. They had committed arson, looting, and wanton killing as part of an overall effort to exterminate the Hindus. And more than 450,000 women had been systematically gangraped by Pakistani soldiers. Thousands were abducted for sex slaves and held captive in the barracks. They were often mutilated, and sometimes raped until they died. One account described an eight year old girl whose vagina was slit open because it could not accomodate the men's genitalia. She too was raped until she died.

These stories prompted Mother Teresa to come forward. In the aftermath of the war, thousands of the rape victims were now pregnant. Mother Teresa made public appeals for the women to keep their unborn babies, and not abort them. She offered no condolences for the dead women, no sympathy for the surviving victims, and not a word about the soldiers. Her sole interest in the matter was preventing abortions. "

Hmm, Mother Teresa is one sick bitch. Bono?!? Are you reading this? Here's your chance, Bono, to out-do Mother Teresa!

Catholic ideology is anti-abortion. She could have not helped them at all. And until I see some endnotes regarding sources, I'm skeptical.

Complain to the media then if you feel they (the media) are giving Bono recognitions and awards. Go see if the O'Reilly Factor wants to hear from you.

I'm a liberal right-winger, but I wouldn't appear on O'Reilly because he's just as stubborn as you and nothing would get accomplished. "The media" is not a single entity. And again, why waste my time?



Bono's ideals seems very interesting, not that I necessarily want to believe in it. Can you please give me some links or sources so I can read up on it?

Probably U2.com to start, mayhaps the UN's site...also potentially OAU (Organization for African Unity)


Good idea. Waste your time and energy on this forum. Funny you chose the word "waste".

It is a waste, but looking for Teeb's posts every now and then for redeeming content is nice.



For the record, you make me laugh at your stupidity, just as Jim Carrey makes me laugh at his character in Dumb and Dumber. The sad part is, you are for real.

I've yet to prove any stupidity other than disagreeing with your opinion, which is not a litmus test for lack of intellect.

 

[Inflames626]

ok, thread ownership and bans have been mentioned so that's where i jump in with yet another sanctimonious lecture. go me!

now, this thread is composed of posts where different people have expressed their view. the content of each post is the poster's responsibility. however, you're all accepting to make what you said public over the internet and it was clear from the start you won't get royalties for it. if someone comes here and steals your words you can only resort to laws based in the country you live in to protect your "work". i pretty much doubt the site itself accepts liability. i for once don't.
technically, those who have contributed all own a part of this thread. still i find it almost hilarious that it should come to a discussion about international law on published material.
i mean, come on everybody! inflames626's intentions - correct me if i'm wrong - were to point out that he intends to claim control over the direction this thread is/will be going given the fact that he's the one who started it and it's his only thread so far (which should quiet down any "you're taking over" complain"). there's no need to give him a rough time for that too. everybody's free to add his opinion the way he/she likes it best, but so is inflames626 allowed to wish the discussion would follow the path he had meant it to.

as for banning, this is either my, hedon's, or mark's personal decision. it's not based on popularity, it's based on the user's will to abide to a few simple rules. there is currently no rule against flames/insults on this forum: inflames626, salamurhaaja, arch, and everybody else here (except for me) is on the same level and can therefore both insult and be insulted. unless it becomes an all-round series of "fuck you!" "no, fuck you!", no censorship will operate. if things really get out of hand i'll first ask you to stop, then delete some posts, and only resort to ban anybody if he/she perseveres. we - meaning the band (who owns this forum as in: they pay for it) and i - feel that the removal of messages due to explicit content alone would result in a violation of users' freedom of speech.
to cut a long story short, nothing in this thread needs to be censored so far, not inflames626 behaviour nor salamurhaaja interventions.
it was perhaps in villain's intentions to point out that it's pretty hard to even think about banning old, stable, productive members of this community like salamurhaaja, whereas it's easer to think of a new guy as a potential troublemaker whose attitude could be disruptive for forum activities. but that was just in case inflames626 was to break any rule around here, which he didn't so far and seems to have absolutely no intention of doing.

1) Music is "public" on the radio and yet royalties are received from it. Private works' made public authors are compensated.

2) Copyright laws are generally uniform and global. That's why Interpol has general jurisdiction over copyright violations (the warning is evident at the beginning of many movies). Although the specifics of applying for copyright are different in various countries, the rights guaranteed are much the same whether Monochromatic was applied for in Sweden in 2002 or whether Creeping Death was applied for in California in 1984. Global copyright law is quite uniform. But that's beside the point. I merely claim ownership to this thread because I am author and originator, something that requires no law to respect.

3) Salad is productive and stable? I'd like to be productive too, but I'm not going to "bugger off" just because I bring up IF in a DT forum. It was going fine until he appeared, and I expected the resulting "No." to solve the problem.

And eventually, it will be solved. As far as productive, I've probably added more general knowledge to this forum, unrelated as it may be, than 10 other posters.

 

[Dark_Jester]

Pride cometh before the fall...

 

[rahvin]

1) Music is "public" on the radio and yet royalties are received from it. Private works' made public authors are compensated.

so? i didn't say there is no form of public work allowing for a retribution, i just said you all should know beforehand this is not one. in short, you're not getting any money. but that was obvious. the fact that what you write may be copyright-protected is partly another matter altogether, and partly already covered by my comment on anyone needing to appeal his/her own country's laws.

2) Copyright laws are generally uniform and global.

well, no. russia and most countries in asia minor have very lax laws on the subject. the internet raises a few problems as the "product" hosted on a server physically resident in, say, bangladesh, may be accessed by people living in the states, who are subject to a much stricter formula when it comes to copyright. most of these issues are still under debate. and i agree that this is beside the point.

I merely claim ownership to this thread because I am author and originator, something that requires no law to respect.

what is it that is required to respect that? i'm not sure i'm following you. if something is not the object of any law you can merely appeal to people's goodwill now, can you?

3) Salad is productive and stable? I'd like to be productive too, but I'm not going to "bugger off" just because I bring up IF in a DT forum. It was going fine until he appeared, and I expected the resulting "No." to solve the problem.

i did not tell you to bugger off, either as a result of salamurhaaja asking you or any other reason. he doesn't need to bugger off either. if you don't like what he's saying and want to focus on other replies you can ignore him. there is an actual option to ignore users accessible from your control panel.

on the other hand, if you're pleading the case that salmy's interventions are scaring other readers away from this thread, i beg to differ. flamewars get hundreds of views more than threads about any other topic except for tits exposure. if noone's gotten to the core of your opinion it might be because you did add a lot of different material and it's hard to choose what to reply to. most users don't have the time or the patience to write for hours, and - sad as this may sound - this is not because of you, me, salmy, or the incessant turning of the earth.

And eventually, it will be solved. As far as productive, I've probably added more general knowledge to this forum, unrelated as it may be, than 10 other posters.

the easy answer is that it depends on which posters. some have been here from the beginning (salmy too) and you cannot possibly have read everything they've posted, now can you?

the harder answer is that your opinions, though well-articulated and spanning quite a wide range, are not to be considered "knowledge" as such. they surely come to show that you're a person who spent a lot of time thinking hard on some subjects and this is clearly a merit. the value of your ponderings, the interest they might evoke here, and the actual increase in general information still is and will be debatable. a claim such as yours is not to be spread lightly, in my humble opinion.

the hardest answer (for me) is that this sort of remarks is what ends up alienating you from a lot of posters here, who might - with more or less good reason - feel offended by some implicit comparison.

now i think i'm gonna step back from the discussion because i myself have got my share of complaints in the past about how i shouldn't meddle that much as long as no rule was broken, given my position. i wish however everybody well, in the hope this comes to an ending that doesn't leave a sour taste in anyone's mouth.

 

[Dark_Jester]

(Jumps up and down) Sod impartiality! Get him Rahvin! Jump on his head, punch his throat! (In bloodlust mode)

 

[Inflames626]

Some evaluations of Rahvin's traditionally sound posts:

so? i didn't say there is no form of public work allowing for a retribution, i just said you all should know beforehand this is not one. in short, you're not getting any money. but that was obvious. the fact that what you write may be copyright-protected is partly another matter altogether, and partly already covered by my comment on anyone needing to appeal his/her own country's laws.

Flames says:
I'm not getting any money, and that is, you're right, not the issue. However, it is federal law in the U.S. (which is taken as the de-facto standard, along with British law, in most other countries, if not enforced) that authorship of something automatically secures a copyright. Applying to the Library of Congress for a certificate of authenticity only legitimizes this claim in a court of law and is not necessary. But that's not the issue here. The point is, due to my authorship and my guidance, this thread is mine due to my perpetuating and guiding it, even though to space for it is borrowed on another's server. I guarantee if I stopped replying to many counter-arguments and switched topics, generally, the replies to this thread would stop because the flamewar would stop. For that reason, in this thread and this thread only, I'm the most important person because I perpetuate its continuity and continue most of its authorship. Hence, my thread.

As far as U.S./British copyright serving as a de-facto standard, this is why purchasing a movie anywhere in the world will have the same general copyright warning in the beginning, generally citing the same international agreements to the protection of intellectual copyright. Although these laws are often not enforced, people living in Bangladesh have other concerns than violating intellectual copyright, so that's a moot point. In general, much like a "self-defense" rule that states that people have the right to defend themselves if attacked with deadly force, the law of authorship=ownership is very much a respected basic human right. Since most of this thread is my authorship and, since the thread would most likely die (aside from post-partum "me bashing"), it's quite my thread. People would have no reason to come here, since it's gone off topic, and would merely meet their posting friends in other forums that are more relevant and eventually this thread would be deleted once deemed inactive. Next point.

Rahvin:
well, no. russia and most countries in asia minor have very lax laws on the subject. the internet raises a few problems as the "product" hosted on a server physically resident in, say, bangladesh, may be accessed by people living in the states, who are subject to a much stricter formula when it comes to copyright. most of these issues are still under debate. and i agree that this is beside the point.

Flames:
Russia's laws and tendencies tend to only be enforced within Russia, and, while you are correct on this point that it is still being debated with regards to the Net, generally, U.S./British copyright laws will be followed and enforced or mimic'ed in another country's law codes due to the economic power and presence of the U.S. and Britain. Why file for copyright protection in Bangladesh when that country's "legitimacy", as well as its legal tender, etc., are so prone to fluctuations? At the same time, although stocks come from the world over, they are generally subject to British, American, and Japanese trading laws. I will grant you that enforcement is highly variable. The concept, however, of authorship=ownership and U.S./British legal practices serving as the process, if not the basis, for intellectual property, is not.



Rahvin:
what is it that is required to respect that? i'm not sure i'm following you. if something is not the object of any law you can merely appeal to people's goodwill now, can you?

Flames:
Yes. You can appeal to goodwill and common sense, such as the aforementioned concept of self-defense, the payment of debts owed and obligations to a contract or keeping promises, etc. Some things are just unwritten rules among civilized people, including, again, authorship=ownership.



Rahvin:
i did not tell you to bugger off, either as a result of salamurhaaja asking you or any other reason. he doesn't need to bugger off either. if you don't like what he's saying and want to focus on other replies you can ignore him. there is an actual option to ignore users accessible from your control panel.

Flames:
If he wishes only to come to cause conflict and perpetuate arguing, he has an obligation to bugger off because he perpetuates disharmony on the board. If I continually followed him and harassed him from thread to thread, it would be my fault. As far as ignoring him, that will be my official policy, since he is reluctant to leave the thread when he should. Presenting dissenting opinions in a mature manner is fair, but not when it makes posting on the boards and unpleasant experience.

Rahvin:
on the other hand, if you're pleading the case that salmy's interventions are scaring other readers away from this thread, i beg to differ. flamewars get hundreds of views more than threads about any other topic except for tits exposure. if noone's gotten to the core of your opinion it might be because you did add a lot of different material and it's hard to choose what to reply to. most users don't have the time or the patience to write for hours, and - sad as this may sound - this is not because of you, me, salmy, or the incessant turning of the earth.

Flames:
It's not scaring people away, but it is scaring people away from communicating with me more because he is a veteran member and more unfairly "trusted" than I. Although a certain amount of this is my own fault for perpetuating the conflict and for demonstrating unpopular views, it is more due to an unfair bias to side with a veteran member, a bias that you have partly overcome and that Tebus has completely overcome by overlooking the argument all together. The most commonly held view, however, is, "Salad is my friend, and this guy is giving salad shit, therefore, because I know and trust salad, and not this guy, he's an asshole." Such automatic discounting simply due to his seniority on the board is not fair to me. "Who you know" is bullshit, and I will not take it here, on ICQ, mIRC or any other "chat" platform. If one can't evaluate the arguments without bias, then kindly don't contribute to the debate. In short, separate Salad's arguments from Salad, even though their silliness and his identity are one in the same.



Rahvin:
the easy answer is that it depends on which posters. some have been here from the beginning (salmy too) and you cannot possibly have read everything they've posted, now can you?

Flames:
No, but I can scan forums, and read general headings, most of which are rightfully music-related, and to one band at that. Remember how I got into trouble in the first place by pulling in off-topic threads? Eventually I would have stopped this thread, had Salmon not perpetuated this argument by accepting that, yes, I realize I am talking about IF in a DT forum, but don't rightfully care as to his opinion about it. Now, kindly get out of my thread, Mr. Salad, as you have everywhere else on the boards to chat that is more productive than here. You can't be productive when I merely think that your opinions are invalid because they are not justified or backed up with proof or evidence. While I've hardly been scholarly in my own defense, I think I have a better grasp of some material than he does.

Rahvin:
the harder answer is that your opinions, though well-articulated and spanning quite a wide range, are not to be considered "knowledge" as such. they surely come to show that you're a person who spent a lot of time thinking hard on some subjects and this is clearly a merit. the value of your ponderings, the interest they might evoke here, and the actual increase in general information still is and will be debatable. a claim such as yours is not to be spread lightly, in my humble opinion.

Flames:
It can very much be spread lightly. If someone walks into a bar and all that's being discussed is sex, and suddenly a person comes in and starts discussing poetry, suddenly, at least to most people, the "intelligence" of the room is raised. Certainly, while all I have said may not have been valid, it is certainly more food for thought than what someone said earlier, to paraphrase, "Nu-metal sux! Fuck you." I've very much contributed to this place, thanks. All whilst remaining "tr00" to my own opinions, without an avatar, and without any support from any person in here save a tentative concession or two. The dude was still wrong for not leaving my thread when he was asked to, or at least letting the argument die. Why is the responsibility not on me to let it die? Because I wasn't the instigator. The burden of proof lies with the prosecution, not the defense.

Rahvin:
the hardest answer (for me) is that this sort of remarks is what ends up alienating you from a lot of posters here, who might - with more or less good reason - feel offended by some implicit comparison.

Flames:
If they're offended by my tendency to seem somewhat condescending, that's their fault and not mine. If they'd like to contact me off-board to understand why I'm so self-confident in certain areas, they can feel free to do it. Again, if they dislike my thread, I'm not holding them here, and they can leave it with my goodwill.

Rahvin:
now i think i'm gonna step back from the discussion because i myself have got my share of complaints in the past about how i shouldn't meddle that much as long as no rule was broken, given my position. i wish however everybody well, in the hope this comes to an ending that doesn't leave a sour taste in anyone's mouth.

Flames:
I've already been gagging on bullshit for three days now, but I respect your efforts in being a fair moderator and appreciate your tentative support.

 

[Gums]

Its easier to read what you say if you leave the parts that others say in the quote box, and leave your own outside of it. Like so -

Some evaluations of Rahvin's traditionally sound posts:



I've already been gagging on bullshit for three days now, but I respect your efforts in being a fair moderator and appreciate your tentative support.

Arnold is numero uno - Gums

 

[Inflames626]

Its easier to read what you say if you leave the parts that others say in the quote box, and leave your own outside of it. Like so -




Arnold is numero uno - Gums

Gums:
I realize that, but these arguments are getting so complicated that a point by point refutation is necessary and the argument is better followed with a point/counterpoint format. I wish I could unitalicize my text to simplify, but I think it helps for people to see my answers right under the concepts they're referring to.

I apologize for being less easy to follow, and assure you it isn't intentional.

 

[rahvin]

Gums:
I realize that, but these arguments are getting so complicated that a point by point refutation is necessary and the argument is better followed with a point/counterpoint format. I wish I could unitalicize my text to simplify, but I think it helps for people to see my answers right under the concepts they're referring to.

I apologize for being less easy to follow, and assure you it isn't intentional.

the long reply will come when i get back home (time to claim international ownership on some solid food around here ). this is just about the code/quote.

you can edit anybody's long post fairly easily by just adding <quote> and </quote> (where <=[ and >=], though) respectively at the beginning and at the end of each snippet. then you proceed with your reply, pick the following snippet and so on. it's really easier done than said. however, i for once don't really mind that much about the format so it's ok if you don't want to bother.

 

[Gums]

however, i for once don't really mind that much about the format so it's ok if you don't want to bother.

Neither do I, I was just pointing it out, cause thats how its generally done around here

 

[Arch]

Just what I thought. Another same old rant. The same old shit seems to leak out everytime you type. You seem to be obsessed and preoccupied with music, people, and art that isn't your certain cup of tea. Yeah, I've met people who have preoccupying thoughts. They went to see a shrink. I suggest you get some mental help before you start shooting innocent people. If you are still getting mental help, get some more.

You're complaining now because you're unable to prove any new concept in metal past distortion and the fast 16th note.

I don't need to prove anything that such-and-such sucks because doo-da-band can't nail that fast 16th note on their whoopty-do detuned guitars, because I don't have my music theory book shoved up my ass like you do. Who gives a fuck that there's no "any new concept in metal past distortion and the fast 16th note"? Why can't you be happy for musicians that aren't as "sophisticated" as you are? You're hell bent on having music being technical. Well, tough shit, Aaron.

I don't even know why are you still obsessed with this concept? See, you're preoccupied with music that doesn't fit you taste. You see, there's another person in history that has similar obsessions like you do. His name is Adolf Hitler. I've read the English translation of "Mein Kampf" and his rants about Jews, capitalism, prositution, art, Jews, communism, Asians, music, Jews, America, nationalism, Black people, Jews... they all sound like you; I mean the way he rants. During his regime, any art that Hitler and the Nazi party didn't seem fit to them were labeled "degenerate art" and were stashed away or destroyed. Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party burned books and murdered people because those "things" don't fit their taste. If Adolf Hitler had dealt with accepting different ideas, different people, different art, different music... he wouldn't be so messed up, Hitler wouldn't be so angry at trivial things. So what Korn and nu-metal music didn't have solos? Why are you upset at certain genres of music? Did the Slipknot boys rape your mother? Why couldn't you accept the fact that there are a lot of music that you will never like and there's no point at bitching every one of them.

I am oh-so-curious to find out what your next reply is: "But-but-but, you, Arch, cannot prove that Band X has the ability to do all that wonderful wankery skills. That guitarist with his 7 string guitar wasn't able to do 1/100th of what Yngwie does... well that's what I learned in GIT. Look at me! I went to GIT! Look! I have my music theory books shoved all the way up my ass!"

"Art" in programming is why people like engines and license them. Saves money and development time if you license the Half-life 2 engine for your game. The style of the engines are all different. Never said programming wasn't an art, just the anonymity of a networking specialist.

What's wrong with an anonymity of a networking specialist? It's just like any job and any career that people don't brand their name to. Did you expect a closet full of routers, switches, and hubs with a autographed signature of the network admin? If a person who's a network specialist wants some kind of recognitions, he/she will quit that job and become a musician, actor/actress, politician, or a CEO of a company.

As before, I'm not a mind reader, and your desperation to win the argument has me wondering about validity of statements.

I don't understand what you're talking about. What argument? What statements? Please don't be vague. Am I desperate to win your argument? Of course not, like you said, you're not a mind reader, duh.

I don't disagree that 1 Mother Teresa has done social good 10x more than Bono. But, good for Mother Teresa for being a 1979 Nobel Prize Peace Laureate winner. Good for David Hewsen aka Bono for having recognitions and receiving awards.

Good for him too. But still, does he really know what he's talking about, aside from appearing at press conferences?

Anyhow, here's some more copy-and-paste job from rotten.com about Mother T.:
"In December 1971, India and Pakistan fought a bloody 15-day war, resulting in the creation of Bangladesh. In the aftermath, horrific stories of war crimes abounded. The Pakistanis had perpetrated ruthless genocide against the local Hindu population. They had committed arson, looting, and wanton killing as part of an overall effort to exterminate the Hindus. And more than 450,000 women had been systematically gangraped by Pakistani soldiers. Thousands were abducted for sex slaves and held captive in the barracks. They were often mutilated, and sometimes raped until they died. One account described an eight year old girl whose vagina was slit open because it could not accomodate the men's genitalia. She too was raped until she died.

These stories prompted Mother Teresa to come forward. In the aftermath of the war, thousands of the rape victims were now pregnant. Mother Teresa made public appeals for the women to keep their unborn babies, and not abort them. She offered no condolences for the dead women, no sympathy for the surviving victims, and not a word about the soldiers. Her sole interest in the matter was preventing abortions. "

Hmm, Mother Teresa is one sick bitch. Bono?!? Are you reading this? Here's your chance, Bono, to out-do Mother Teresa!

Catholic ideology is anti-abortion. She could have not helped them at all. And until I see some endnotes regarding sources, I'm skeptical.

No one expects Mother Teresa to help ALL 50 of those women who had babies from the raping. Perhaps Mother T.'s organization has helped some of the women. A caring woman that shows no condolences for the atrocity. Oxymoron at its best.

Here's a link with a bibliography of the sources about Mother T.:
http://website.lineone.net/~bajuu/CHAP10.htm

As a recap: Mother Teresa did that (mentioned earlier). Bono is 25% philanthropist (a number Aaron pulled out of his ass).
The deal: Mother Teresa, Bono, Sean Penn, you (Aaron), me, anyone else in the world are self contradictory and hypocritical. And don't tell me you don't contradict yourself. Read earlier posts on this thread from other posters about you contradicting yourself.

Complain to the media then if you feel they (the media) are giving Bono recognitions and awards. Go see if the O'Reilly Factor wants to hear from you.

I'm a liberal right-winger, but I wouldn't appear on O'Reilly because he's just as stubborn as you and nothing would get accomplished. "The media" is not a single entity. And again, why waste my time?

As stubborn as me? Look who's talking. Hah!
Why would nothing get accomplished? You want to force your beliefs on to Bill O'Reilly and Bill accepting it? Is that what "accomplishment" means to you?

Bono's ideals seems very interesting, not that I necessarily want to believe in it. Can you please give me some links or sources so I can read up on it?

Probably U2.com to start, mayhaps the UN's site...also potentially OAU (Organization for African Unity)

I haven't found any sources referring to Bono or U2. You got any more sources you want to show me?

One interesting thing I found was Henry Rollins' statement about Bono taking on too many causes, but Rollins like Bono for doing something rather than nothing, which I agree with.

http://www.u2world.com/news/article.php3?id_article=198

...

For the record, you make me laugh at your stupidity, just as Jim Carrey makes me laugh at his character in Dumb and Dumber. The sad part is, you are for real.

I've yet to prove any stupidity other than disagreeing with your opinion, which is not a litmus test for lack of intellect.

Your stupidity:
- Self contradictions.
- Your inability to accept other people's music and art.
- Your childish mockery of people's avatar; no different with 1st graders making fun of other student's name.
- You somehow think this thread is entirely your's.
- You thought that this forum is entirely your's.

 

[Arch]

Its easier to read what you say if you leave the parts that others say in the quote box, and leave your own outside of it. Like so -




Arnold is numero uno - Gums

Yeah, InFlames626 is relatively new here, and I have to modify the quotes and weave in-and-out of my replies to him.

He'll get the hang of vBulletin.

 

[Siren]

Greece's lack of a concept of a democracy until the 1970s

Just a short comment on the above:

 

[Inflames626]

I don't need to prove anything that such-and-such sucks because doo-da-band can't nail that fast 16th note on their whoopty-do detuned guitars, because I don't have my music theory book shoved up my ass like you do. Who gives a fuck that there's no "any new concept in metal past distortion and the fast 16th note"? Why can't you be happy for musicians that aren't as "sophisticated" as you are? You're hell bent on having music being technical. Well, tough shit, Aaron.

Inflames replies:
Sounds to me like you're angry that you don't know as much, and that you are trying to make up for people that don't know as much because you secretly would like to know all those technical terms. Yes, the best music is technical, be it jazz, classical, or metal, just like the best reading is literature and not the phonebook.

I don't even know why are you still obsessed with this concept? See, you're preoccupied with music that doesn't fit you taste. You see, there's another person in history that has similar obsessions like you do. His name is Adolf Hitler. I've read the English translation of "Mein Kampf" and his rants about Jews, capitalism, prositution, art, Jews, communism, Asians, music, Jews, America, nationalism, Black people, Jews... they all sound like you; I mean the way he rants. During his regime, any art that Hitler and the Nazi party didn't seem fit to them were labeled "degenerate art" and were stashed away or destroyed. Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party burned books and murdered people because those "things" don't fit their taste. If Adolf Hitler had dealt with accepting different ideas, different people, different art, different music... he wouldn't be so messed up, Hitler wouldn't be so angry at trivial things. So what Korn and nu-metal music didn't have solos? Why are you upset at certain genres of music? Did the Slipknot boys rape your mother? Why couldn't you accept the fact that there are a lot of music that you will never like and there's no point at bitching every one of them.

Inflames replies:
Comparing me to Hitler is really hilarious. You're comparing me to someone who killed millions just because I wrankled your ass on a messageboard. You're, firstly, going too far, and, secondly, groping for insults.

The exposition on degenerate art, I believe, passed through Germany and Austria in 1936. There were two showings, one of Nazi art and one of then-modern art. The modern art show was more popular. I don't need you to lecture me on history. Much like in Russia at the time, any non-Socialist Realist art was sold to finance war preparations.

Accepting of ideas doesn't un-make a killer, it simply makes them a more versatile, adaptable killer, China's government being a perfect example of a state's ability to disguise brutality under a guise of "accepting" global capitalism.

I've considered converting to Judaism. No Jew basher here.

I never was bitching about nu-metal or Korn, I said no new ideas had come out SINCE that time (1994, and 1995's release of the Deftone's "Adrenaline"). As much as I dislike nu-metal, part of it has its redeeming qualities, specifically Slipknot, which I akin more to death metal. It's the clownish presentation that amuses me. They'd be just as heavy, and just as mean if they'd go out and do like our friends DT here...go out, play a killer show, and go home. In Flames didn't even have pyrotechnics in the Whisky, and I was merely blown away watching their sound engineer trigger all the things necessary on a Mac and mixing console to be sure all the little sound bytes from Colony on came in at the right places. I wanted to ask him how to work the board, I wanted to crawl inside of it...I'm more than a music fan, I'm a musician. They overlap and are inseparable.


I am oh-so-curious to find out what your next reply is: "But-but-but, you, Arch, cannot prove that Band X has the ability to do all that wonderful wankery skills. That guitarist with his 7 string guitar wasn't able to do 1/100th of what Yngwie does... well that's what I learned in GIT. Look at me! I went to GIT! Look! I have my music theory books shoved all the way up my ass!"

Flames: I'm not saying a thing about GIT other than, being where I'm from with the income disparity between the South in general and the West Coast, I was very lucky and blessed by whatever runs the universe to see all sorts of incredible musicians broaden my horizons, guys such as Mike Stern (guitarist for Myles Davis), Dave Lombardo (ex-Slayer), former Speak No Evil guitarist Danny Gill (who played nu-metal at the time but started out as a devout Maiden-ite...I went to his open counseling sessions a lot Friday mornings and loved his ability to combine the two), and numerous other people. We had a session drummer come in who did work with Sugar Ray to do rhythm section workshops, and we had official people from Line 6 that showed us how to use the then new (in 1999) PODs and how to get the most out of them. Is this saying, look at what I've had and what you haven't? No, it's saying, look how lucky you were, Aaron, to be exposed to so much, to be exposed to David Oakes classical guitar classes, to have the mystery of theory solved, to see so much, and to retain even 2% of it. And to have fun on Metal Meltdown Friday LPWs! I went in thinking Yngwie was God, I came out thinking that, as hard as that technique is to build, there's more to music...playing "loose, shitty" guitar like Hendrix or SRV, which in my opinion is harder than being technical. But, DESPITE these concessions, I don't like these styles as much because I don't like the sound of weak or bluesy intervals, specifically the dominant 7th and the 13th. They jangle and are too dissonant to my ears. At least in my criticism, I'm a little more valid in why I don't like things, just like you'd be more valid than me in saying why or not you like Linux better than Windows.

Yet, after all this, and partly BECAUSE of this, I respect old school metal more than nu-metal because people could broaden their horizons a bit if they'd just try. Most metalheads agree with me that people who practice more, etc, and work harder, ideally deserve more credit than someone who gets a band signed after a year of pounding some shitty regurged Korn and being signed by Fred Durst. This is not a contradiction with saying metal is stagnant, it's saying, metal musicians (Petrucci, Rush, the real music egg-heads) have the capacity to be more creative than they are, but because of lack of inspiration or lack of desire, they don't. Metal has the capacity to evolve more and not be stagnant, but it isn't evolving.

After all is said and done, I could have went to, and may still, go to Berklee. It's just like being able to read...it opens a whole new world to your eyes. I'm increasingly seeing you being resentful of my knowledge, more than anything else.

Reminds me of a kid I knew in grade school that, regardless of what I said to him during arguments, he could always appeal to the "You think you're better than everyone else" argument. The thing is, it was my word against his, so he could always fall back on it. He was always more popular, and had a number of bands in school. In the end, he tried going to a community college, dropped out (I in turn got an A.A. in one year), had a band, which he later stopped doing after giving up (he was based in Fayetteville), and now I think works at a book binding factory in Fayetteville (the college is there). Good for him, if he's happy, but, because he appeared right at first, didn't mean he got the last laugh. Although I never toured, my "band" was an entity both before and after his, and once my disc of covers and originals is done and I find a singer, it will be marketed.


What's wrong with an anonymity of a networking specialist? It's just like any job and any career that people don't brand their name to. Did you expect a closet full of routers, switches, and hubs with a autographed signature of the network admin? If a person who's a network specialist wants some kind of recognitions, he/she will quit that job and become a musician, actor/actress, politician, or a CEO of a company.

Flames: Not saying there's anything wrong with it. Just saying I would be unhappy with such a job because of the anonymity.


I don't understand what you're talking about. What argument? What statements? Please don't be vague. Am I desperate to win your argument? Of course not, like you said, you're not a mind reader, duh.

Flames: If so, then why continue? I'm not going to concede any points to you. Give it up.

No one expects Mother Teresa to help ALL 50 of those women who had babies from the raping. Perhaps Mother T.'s organization has helped some of the women. A caring woman that shows no condolences for the atrocity. Oxymoron at its best.

Flames: To Catholics, keeping people alive is more important than killing. That's not my place to answer but her's. The issue was whether Bono deserved more credit than her, which he doesn't.

Here's a link with a bibliography of the sources about Mother T.:
http://website.lineone.net/~bajuu/CHAP10.htm

As a recap: Mother Teresa did that (mentioned earlier). Bono is 25% philanthropist (a number Aaron pulled out of his ass).

The deal: Mother Teresa, Bono, Sean Penn, you (Aaron), me, anyone else in the world are self contradictory and hypocritical. And don't tell me you don't contradict yourself. Read earlier posts on this thread from other posters about you contradicting yourself.

Flames: Contradictions arise from specific situations and to manners of degree. The basic points of the entire argument have not been compromised and were that I was going to post whatever I felt like in the DT forum, IF related or no, as long as I didn't disrupt other threads with off-subject topics and kept things to myself, which I have done. There was also the idea that DT was nothing new in metal, which, as much as I love "The Sun Fired Blanks", they're not. Put "Dobermann", "Sun", "Monochromatic", "Punish", and "Dreamlore" "Run Down" together and you'll see several similar approaches. The "similarness" of the music was why I never turned my co-guitarist onto DT ("Man, Aaron, all the songs sound the same to me."). Again, metal needs a fresh boost of originality. It especially seemed similar after seeing GIT instructor Daniel Gilbert's fusion stuff and seeing what little of the musical alphabet metal uses. I felt so small...who cares if I could play a million miles an hour (I couldn't, I was 18 and 4 months out of high school)...could I do a Carl Schroeder-esque changing of key centers in the middle of an arpeggio, changing modes as well as keys? No. Metal's fast, it's hard on coordination and the muscles, but alas, is in E minor most of the time.

At the same time, jazz always tends to sound inane, wandering, and without a key center. Most of it sounds the same to me, also, but, I think comparatively, metal is one of the most stagnant forms of music right now, a sad case considering that at one point it required one of the most highly competent musicians to perform.

Other criticisms have come from the Bono issue and the merit of new metal.

My basic stands on these are, Bono doesn't know what he's talking about and, musicians who are also metal fans have more validity in criticizing than non-musicians.

As stubborn as me? Look who's talking. Hah!
Why would nothing get accomplished? You want to force your beliefs on to Bill O'Reilly and Bill accepting it? Is that what "accomplishment" means to you?

Accomplishment is subjective. Ending this argument would be an accomplishment, and the moderator to end it would deserve more than Mother Teresa and Bono combined. I'm beginning to tire of the redundancy.

I haven't found any sources referring to Bono or U2. You got any more sources you want to show me?

At the moment, no. My ass is full of a theory book, as you say, and I've no room for anything else. I'll get back to you in mid-fall, when my university global politics class reconvenes and researching this information will do more good than just proving you wrong, as it might actually solve a paper for me. In fact, you've given me a good idea for a thesis "Celebrities in Politics: Boon or Hinderance?" Sincerely, thanks. No sarcasm.


One interesting thing I found was Henry Rollins' statement about Bono taking on too many causes, but Rollins like Bono for doing something rather than nothing, which I agree with.

I never said I faulted him for doing something. I asked whether he knew what he was talking about. I like Henry too. A lot of balls, that guy. A good example of a "responsible" rockstar, and an "anti-Manson". No personality needed there, no bullshit or frills, just Henry. And he always has something intelligent to say. Truce on that point.

http://www.u2world.com/news/article.php3?id_article=198



Your stupidity:
- Self contradictions.
- Your inability to accept other people's music and art.
- Your childish mockery of people's avatar; no different with 1st graders making fun of other student's name.
- You somehow think this thread is entirely your's.
- You thought that this forum is entirely your's.

Flames:
-Find some contradictions.

-If one doesn't accept other music styles at GIT, you don't pass. I had to play a raggae tune and Metallica on the same day, both of which were graded. Being a history student as well as a Jewish sympathizer makes me open-minded. Of course, being a Jewish sympathizer means you're anti-Arab sometimes, which means you're closed minded. You cannot be completely open-minded, as taking a stand on an issue closes you to the opposing argument. Therefore, you're just as close minded as I because you won't accept my arguments. If you were tolerant, wouldn't you read a theory book and see whether my views have any merit? I'll be getting to yours later in the year when I have more time.
Back to music, there are, after all, 7 modes: major, minor, dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, and locrian, yet metal can only seem to use three, not to mention all the altered modes and scales and exotic tonalities. If Satriani can DO it, why can't you be open minded and ATTEMPT it or at least learn about it and say, "You know, Aaron's right, a lot of this metal sounds the same because of..."? Then you'll see how stagnant metal is, due mostly to most metal bands being unwilling to be musicians and to be more oriented toward "entertainers".

-Childish mockery's come from being called "troll" and harassed by a self-righteous glam-rock fool who expects me to take him seriously when he wont even supply any real life off-board info to justify his ideas.

-The thread is mine, due to reasons discussed. I leave, it dies and loses all (meaningful, aka non-argumentative) discussion because other more popular threads are out there. My thread is a pimple on the ass of the messageboard universe, and it's alllllllllllll mine.

Nexttttttttttttttttt topic?

 

[Inflames626]

Just a short comment on the above:

Ancient Greece is not modern Greece

Sorry, I realize the irony of my statement. We were discussing modern Europe.

 

[Dmanx Pit]

Only on a metal forum can an argument whether reroute to remain sucks or rules can turn into "well, mother theresa was evil!" and the very essences of Greek and US History. See how warped In Flames' new album is that it causes us all to argue history over it's very mention?

Um... Dark Tranquillity rules! <---makes this post have to do with music again

 

[Inflames626]

Only on a metal forum can an argument whether reroute to remain sucks or rules can turn into "well, mother theresa was evil!" and the very essences of Greek and US History. See how warped In Flames' new album is that it causes us all to argue history over it's very mention?

Um... Dark Tranquillity rules! <---makes this post have to do with music again

I like it, especially Black and White, but I have a love and hate relationship with Korn. Chew on that contradiction, Arch .

Point conceded partially on the thread ownership, but since it's my thread, and you all left, and it was just me, it would especially be my thread, because i wouldnt be sharing authorship with anyone else. I would now and again post a new topic, and hope to start conversation. Still my thread. Because it's my "home" on the DT boards. I don't move out of it because I don't want to start yet more fights. Am I an asshole? Yeah, sometimes. But I confine myself, which I think deserves some merit.

They do rule, but again, not very original. Fredrick Nordstrom's production rules.

 

[Inflames626]

I, for one, have all but lost interest in the idea of originality in music, so much as introducing new, unheard of elements into the music, because I find that there's little left to add that would interest me. Sure, you can mix genres, but I personally don't find anything interesting in anything outside of Metal (and almost all of its minute subgenres) and Classical music, and those two elements are already well-mixed. At this point, any new idea brought in would be spawned from something else, so I see no room even for originality in music anymore. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised, as much as pleased to be contradicted, if down the road something original as well as enjoyable does come along eventually, but I don't see that happening any time soon. If anything, I'm content with music's current state, because there is still much of it that is new to me that I have yet to explore.

A very good point. A lot of people fail to see that metal is really classical on steroids with a bit of blues.

But you know...30 years ago no one would have thought death metal could come from Sabbath. It sucks how obvious something is, after the fact, but before it happens, you had no way of knowing.