Dream Theater - Octavarium

Metropolis Part 2 said:
Octavarium is miles better than 99.9[dude, too many nines!] percent of the albums out there

I'd have to agree. When you think of all the no-brains-required-to-listen music that is out there, Octavarium is pretty high up there. I still don't understand why so many people dislike this album.
 
MorphineChild205 said:
I'd have to agree. When you think of all the no-brains-required-to-listen music that is out there, Octavarium is pretty high up there. I still don't understand why so many people dislike this album.
Though I'd have to disagree with Metropolis about Octavarium being better than every Symphony X CD, which is what he implied when he said that it is better than his favorite SX CD...there is just no way that Octavarium is better than V or Divine Wings...hell, Romeo and company wrote 2 much better epics than anything epic that DT has put out...and yes, The Odyssey and Divine Wings are BOTH better than either A Change of Seasons OR Octavarium (talking about the epic songs in this sentence)...
 
Well.. i must say, since Six Degrees, i was worried about DT.
Now, with Octavarium, i'm not worried anymore: i know DT is dying.

This album is the hugest pile of crap this band have ever released (well ..falling into infinity.. well! ).
FLAT FLAT FLAT! Muse-esk! Shit-masking saturations everywhere! dirty "empty-space-filling" sounds! my ears are bleeding, DT!
I was a huge fan of When Dream and Day Unites, Images and Words and Awake... and this "thing" is making me feel that i am no longer a DT fan, that DT is no longer making music for persons like me, feeling that i'm EVEN not sure i'm really listening to a DT production (if it wasn't for those "hey yeah it'us! really!!" reminescences of old good DT tunes dispatched here and there in this nameless flat dirty crap that is 8V ).
The thing that is comfurting me even more in that direction, is that the people who disliked "old" DT (True DT) are now liking (licking) this one piece of crafty musical paper.

I hope someone or something will kill this agonising and suffering beast that was once called Dream Theater. Enough of that painful vision!

@ DT members: please, listen to A Fool's Paradise @ 2:39, and pleaaase, make these words Yours. thanks.

and huuuuh the guy in the early posts in this topic who was like "8V is the best album even VS my favorite SX album!"... well... Show some Respect to SX please. DWOT is a Sun when 8V is merely a Maglight, or a lighter.

R.I.P DT, i loved you.

soz for my bad english :|
 
dtfnyX said:
Well.. i must say, since Six Degrees, i was worried about DT.
Now, with Octavarium, i'm not worried anymore: i know DT is dying.

This album is the hugest pile of crap this band have ever released (well ..falling into infinity.. well! ).
FLAT FLAT FLAT! Muse-esk! Shit-masking saturations everywhere! dirty "empty-space-filling" sounds! my ears are bleeding, DT!
I was a huge fan of When Dream and Day Unites, Images and Words and Awake... and this "thing" is making me feel that i am no longer a DT fan, that DT is no longer making music for persons like me, feeling that i'm EVEN not sure i'm really listening to a DT production (if it wasn't for those "hey yeah it'us! really!!" reminescences of old good DT tunes dispatched here and there in this nameless flat dirty crap that is 8V ).
The thing that is comfurting me even more in that direction, is that the people who disliked "old" DT (True DT) are now liking (licking) this one piece of crafty musical paper.

I hope someone or something will kill this agonising and suffering beast that was once called Dream Theater. Enough of that painful vision!

@ DT members: please, listen to A Fool's Paradise @ 2:39, and pleaaase, make these words Yours. thanks.

and huuuuh the guy in the early posts in this topic who was like "8V is the best album even VS my favorite SX album!"... well... Show some Respect to SX please. DWOT is a Sun when 8V is merely a Maglight, or a lighter.

R.I.P DT, i loved you.

soz for my bad english :|

I think you said it beautifully...and I love your avatar


and that is why my friends....

Kreator owns DT
 
Ayreon Guardian X said:
Though I'd have to disagree with Metropolis about Octavarium being better than every Symphony X CD, which is what he implied when he said that it is better than his favorite SX CD...there is just no way that Octavarium is better than V or Divine Wings...hell, Romeo and company wrote 2 much better epics than anything epic that DT has put out...and yes, The Odyssey and Divine Wings are BOTH better than either A Change of Seasons OR Octavarium (talking about the epic songs in this sentence)...

I don't like Octavarium more than V, Divine Wings, or The Odyssey either. However, it's all subjective. If he likes Octavarium more, let it be.
 
Metropolis Part 2 said:
One word: Who cares?

Octavarium is miles better than 99.99999999999999999999999999999999percent of the albums out there including my favorite Symphony X album, V!

I care about it when one of my favorite bands half ass an album. YOu don't because you are a fucking DT sheep anyway
 
I just listened to Octavarium, the song, and uh...it definitely ranks as one of my top all time favorite songs. The first ten minutes are perfect. The first 3 and a half minutes rips off Pink Floyd's "Echoes" (which is perfectly fine with me)...the music flows perfectly. Such an amazing song.
 
OK, people...while I may be rambling like mad in this review...you know full well by now that I am not one of those who thinks every note DT's ever done is perfect. But when they impress me, I am not going to hold back from giving them credit.

But here is my full review. I accept that many of you will never feel as I do about it, and I respect that it's a matter of taste. But like you...I like what I like, and it won't change. Please do me the same courtesy and don't flame me for this.

---------------

I am in a state of shock after my second listen to Dream Theater's Octavarium, and I sincerely apologize for the length of this...but I want to do this amazing album justice and put it into context. Given the controversy and the flaming DT tends to generate even before an album's release, I worried at first that my high assessment of Octavarium might be due to unfairly lowering my expectations. But after my second listen--this time knowing what I'd hear--I'm sure this really is a masterpiece of prog. Dream Theater has finally generated a work that really competes with its other magnum opus, Awake.

After losing atmospheric master and keyboardist Kevin Moore, DT had a difficult time returning to the kind of tight cohesion they had before. (I have not heard any albums with Derek Sherinian; I write about the Rudess era only.) While technically very talented, up until now their third keyboardist Jordan Rudess had yet to "click" with the rest of the band, sticking out of joint with meandering solos and grating keyboard patches. His first album with DT, Scenes from a Memory, while conceptually interesting and well-sung by James LaBrie, suffered seriously in my opinion from a lack of musical direction. The next album I've heard, Train of Thought got closer to integrating Rudess, and while I know some didn't care for it because of its hard edge and yes...still some over-noodling, it was a decent album. I've always believed, though, that the keyboardist makes or breaks the atmosphere of a prog record, and I worried that if Rudess did not fully assimilate this time, it was going to be the end for DT.

Thankfully, this album is a best-case scenario beyond my wildest imagination! All the way from the creepy, "Welcome to the Machine"-like introduction of "The Root of All Evil" to the reprise at the end of "Octavarium", there is very little I can find about this that isn't tightly-composed, well-performed, and genuinely moving. The transitions between songs are carefully managed, flowing, and even tiny details have been attended to by the band--right down to taking care to making the track titles display on your CD player and marking the interstitial areas between songs with a "countdown".

"The Root of All Evil" makes a nice sequel to "This Dying Soul", and is part of Mike Portnoy's AA series. This one really seems to represent the moment of committing oneself to change...and I've got to give Portnoy cool points for having the guts to "go public" this way. LaBrie's voice has been processed in a way that's very strange at first...but to my mind, very effective. And immediately, I notice in the subtler keys of the outro, that Rudess has learned control. But I hadn't heard anything yet...

The album's softest, sweetest moment, "The Answer Lies Within", reminded me in a strange way of something from Natalie Merchant; but I mean that favorably. I truly felt something stir inside of me not only at the excellent use of the orchestra and piano, but also at LaBrie's delivery of the lyrics, which was genuinely touching and makes me want to sing along. And at one point, he does a gorgeous multi-tracking of his own voice that is among his best "harmony" moments I've ever heard. It also helps that this song speaks very nicely to where I am in my life--and the fact that I connect on this level is a testament to what DT has done on Octavarium.

"These Walls" and "I Walk Beside You" I'll address together. Both are mellower tracks (once past the intro to "These Walls"), and both have traits that some people are calling "commercial". However--why people are knocking them for that is beyond me. What I hear is good music with a real flow to it...and, yes...is even uplifting. Wouldn't you guys rather that all music on the radio was this good?

"Panic Attack"...I admit I don't feel as much just from the music (a very heavy track in contrast to what went before it)--but let me tell you something: this is about as authentic to the real experience of a panic attack that you can get. Petrucci has hit the nail on the head with the lyrics, LaBrie has successfully worked the nameless fear into his singing especially with the intentionally-exaggerated vibrato in places, and even the outro, with the obsessively-repeating note, very much evokes the obsessive looping of a mind locked into a true panic attack. On "Never Enough", Jordan Rudess decisively proves what he's made of. While he's low in the mix at times, he really makes his synth blend with the music, and his solos are well-planned, not ever feeling like they were "noodled-through" on the fly. Mike Portnoy's cymbal fills caught my attention. As for the lyrical content...this seems to be a sequel to "Honor Thy Father".

For "Sacrificed Sons", I warn anyone who suffers severely from remembering 9/11 to skip to "Octavarium", because this is very evocative, using real TV clips from that day, not to mention a very powerful, emotional musical atmosphere--mournfully soft at times, ragingly heavy and angry at others. During Petrucci's solo, he lets out some bone-chilling sounds: he imitates emergency sirens...and not long after that what sounds like a muezzin's call to prayer. I give credit to James LaBrie not only for singing--but for setting on paper feelings that I think any American can identify with. Thank goodness...this isn't a war protest--rather, it's the cry of shock and indignation that I think every one of us, regardless of political affiliation, felt after the attack on America. The terrorists deserve the lyrical roasting LaBrie hurls at them--but I commend him for not sinking to the nastiness of a Roger Waters even with the mournful sarcasm this justifiably brings out of him.

"Octavarium"...this was the final test Dream Theater had to pass: to prove that they had (re)learned to write a cohesive epic. The first four minutes literally bring me to a halt in whatever I'm doing--this moody, spacy section evokes both Pink Floyd and Ayreon. I'm not exactly sure what this song is about, but here's my best guess at it: it seems to show someone who is alienated from this modern era and under severe psychological strain because of it. The section subtitled "Awakening" is a real lyrical clue--go to IMDB for a summary of the movie Awakenings to understand. The next section's disjointed references to the great works of the 60s and 70s (including lyrical nods to Genesis and Pink Floyd) help confirm my impression. The musical build- up from section to section is very well-composed and powerful to hear...and not only that, towards the end LaBrie goes from a dark, spoken vocal up to the kind of screaming, snarling sounds I haven't heard out of him since Awake--and for me, it's great to have that back. I should also add that Rudess is in fine form...and without him there's no way the band could successfully pull off an epic of this caliber. By the time the end arrives, you find yourself reflecting sadly that "Octavarium" would go on forever. It is an incredible ride.

The only thing I noticed that might keep this one from knocking Awake to second place is a murky mix that sometimes threatens to swallow LaBrie's vocals. If you've heard Blind Guardian's A Night at the Opera, that should give you a clue what to expect. But like that example, the composition and performance itself is solid...and it won't blow your head off if you listen on earphones! I also had one little complaint with a passage from Rudess in "The Root of All Evil" that sounded a bit too video game-ish and reminiscent of the things that got on my nerves in previous albums-- but he stopped within seconds and after that he truly shined. Neither of these things are nearly enough to knock Octavarium to four stars.

This is the real McCoy...Dream Theater is back!

(And the "meandering" torch is hereby passed to me!)

------------

Again, please no flaming...but I wanted to put this out there.
 
fyi: that track title and countdown thing is unrelated to the music, its a disc-burning option. you could do it yourself to all the discs you have that don't have it if you were bored enough, it takes 2 seconds. i agree with a lot of your review opinions, i'm just not a fan of the shredtacular stupidity that happens from time to time on DT, or the instrumental sections with odd rhythms and times without purpose, leaving me to wonder "what song was this again? oh...right"

that lead me to be turned off by Panic Attack, the middle section of Sacrificed Sons, These Walls, and The Root of All Evil. the rest of the album is quite good in my opinion, and given that those parts amount to about 50 minutes of music, that's good enough for me.

still not my favorite DT album, not a stand-out album for any genre, and certainly not a masterpiece by my opinions.
 
I wholeheartedly agree with Rose Immortal. I was glad to see Petrucci and Rudess hold back from wanking. I guess with the release of their solo albums, that pretty much satisfied their wanting to just go off into meandering solo land.
 
I really like Octavarium, but why is the mix so flat? It's mixed by the guy who mixes for the most famous artists in the world! Petrucci's solo guitar level is always too low in the mix (especially in The Root of All Evil, JR is really loud and after that JP is way softer).
 
Silent Song said:
fyi: that track title and countdown thing is unrelated to the music, its a disc-burning option. you could do it yourself to all the discs you have that don't have it if you were bored enough, it takes 2 seconds.

Yeah, agreed that it should be a quick and easy thing...but I find myself wondering why a lot of musicians don't think to take advantage of it. It's attention to detail.
 
RequiemX said:
Hmmm. I'd say a 7.5. With a bit better production, a few more solos, and some more emotion this could have been an 8.5 or 9. Overall a good, solid album with a number of great songs.


5 out of 10. Ive actually been listening to it to find anything redeeming and I find myself coming away from this album with barely anything lasting, aside from the U2 chorus in I Walk Beside You and the whiny Muse imitating vocals in Never Enough and they are sticking with me not because they are catchy and good but because they are annoying, the way irritating commercial jingles stay with you.

And what pisses me off more is that I know with each subpar "look how prog we are!" release DT comes out with now, that pushes more and more of the "golden age" songs out of the live setlists meaning I have to sit through more shit to hear the good stuff.

Aside from the title track, this album is filled with some of the most thrown together music I've ever heard DT "compose"

And I've never heard an orchestra so under-utilized since Edguy's Hellfire Club CD, especially by a band that has someone like Rudess playing for them. BTW the only difference between Octavarium and Hellfire Club is that Hellfire Club is awesome and Octavarium is not.

DT also win the "dorkiest band of the year" award for including inside jokes from the Mike Portnoy forum in the liner artwork.

The whole each song being in a key based off of an ascending F lydian scale (all the white keys on a piano from F to F) is cute, but honestly who cares? If it were an awesome album these little things would add to it, however because it is not a good album, they only serve as being gimmicky.

this wasn't really a review, just some random observations I've had about this album.

In more important news the cover for the new Destruction album was just released and it looks fucking killer:
inventor_of_evil.jpg


And its a pretty safe bet that this will be an awesome album....once again unlike Octavarium :)
 
i agree about the ascending scale thing. i don't think its brilliant, i think it's stupid... it just goes to show that the band is more concerned with novelty than actually writing songs as they flow. its more formulaic than art now.

i also agree about the orchestra. i heard an orchestra was used, but i barely heard a thing from them other than the violin/cello.
 
I didn't read all this thread, but can anyone else hear the similarity between Velvet Revolver's Slither and The Root of All Evil on DT's album?

I just can't listen to the first song without thinking of VR's song *and I don't even like them*. That riff that starts in the song at 1:00. Then listen to the main riff of Slither.

Damn!
 
The key change scheme isn't brilliant, but it sure as heck isn't stupid or gimmicky. Not unless you intend to indict hundreds of years of western music, in which composers have used any number of key change schemes for large works, suites, and other sets.
 
HeroBoy said:
The key change scheme isn't brilliant, but it sure as heck isn't stupid or gimmicky. Not unless you intend to indict hundreds of years of western music, in which composers have used any number of key change schemes for large works, suites, and other sets.
yes but the fact that people are using that as passing evidence that the band made a good record is absurd. that's like saying the song is better because it's in F.