Drugs and Music

[Ermz]

To Satori:

Yeah, I understand what you're saying, and I do admit my initial post is very one-sided, although I have repeatedly kept saying 'to each their own'.

Just one thing though

Regardless of how your parents raised you, you received the "all recreational drugs (with perhaps the hypocritical exception of tobacco & alcohol) are inherently bad" message. It's a message we all receive (and it's a good message for kids). But as adults we eventually have to sort through these messages and test their validity, and in doing so we see that the message isn't always accurate. The fact is, the message given to kids about drugs is greatly skewed, as it should be, the idea is to scare them away from drugs, and that's a good thing for the most part. But the message itself is skewed and incomplete, something we generally figure out as we get older and wiser.

I think that's a great big generalisation right there. You seem to be plastering that onto me because it makes it easier for yourself to form an arguement from... you seem to want me to have been given that message so you can tell me I'm seeing things very one-sided, but that's not true. As I already said, I can see this thing both ways, both for the boosts in mental activity and also the possibility of addiction/retardation/death/whatever later on.

Now that we're on the issue though, I have to say that the 'drugs are bad mmmkay' message really isn't getting through well to people... especially of my age group. There are soooo many people I know that have destroyed their education and their lives for the most part with addictions (not just for weed, coke etc. I mean alcohol and tobacco aswell) and I think it's a great big epidemic right now... We're becoming a generation of wastes that get their cheap thrills riding on highs (I'm not saying this applies to ALL drug users, just the ones I'm currently talking about) and just seeing this every day makes me sad.

 

[PiercedFromWithin]

Originally posted by Goat Labia
Listen to Immortal - Battles in the North stoned. You can actually hear the riffs

That's funny 'cause it did the same thing when I listened to hate eternal - conquering the throne stoned. I was hearing each instrument clearly and it rocked so much...

From that day I knew that Brutal death + drugs = meant to be

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Moonlapse
I think that's a great big generalisation right there. You seem to be plastering that onto me because it makes it easier for yourself to form an arguement from... you seem to want me to have been given that message so you can tell me I'm seeing things very one-sided, but that's not true. As I already said, I can see this thing both ways, both for the boosts in mental activity and also the possibility of addiction/retardation/death/whatever later on.

Your initial post seemed like you were limited by the messages you received in childhood, as we all are to some extent.

Now that we're on the issue though, I have to say that the 'drugs are bad mmmkay' message really isn't getting through well to people... especially of my age group. There are soooo many people I know that have destroyed their education and their lives for the most part with addictions (not just for weed, coke etc. I mean alcohol and tobacco aswell) and I think it's a great big epidemic right now... We're becoming a generation of wastes that get their cheap thrills riding on highs (I'm not saying this applies to ALL drug users, just the ones I'm currently talking about) and just seeing this every day makes me sad.

Yep, there is a down side to recreational drug use, and with some drugs the down side far outweighs the up side (like in the case of drugs like coke, herion, and nicotine).

I think that many people are too weak/stupid to be responsible with their indulgence and it ends up taking over their purpose in life. But there are even more people who's lives are enhanced by the moderate use of substances and they suffer absolutely no siginificant ills from using them moderately and responsibly.

Satori

 

[Satori]

When I was a kid in between grades 4 and 6 back in the 80's we were given very strong messages about drugs in school. We learned that marijuana was lumped into the same category as herion and cocaine. This lie had a negative impact on us, cuz once we got to be around 13 years old and we realized that we had been mislead, that marijuana isn't even as bad as tobacco or alcohol, we started to think that everything we were taught in school about drugs was a lie, and for a while there we held the opinion and even coke and heroin wasn't that big of a deal (which is not the case, of course).

Anyway, long story short, I think it's ok to lie a little to grade schoolers, to scare them a little, but the lies we were fed were so grand that we started to doubt the truths we were fed as well, and that wasn't a good thing. Fortuantely these days children are taught the facts, taught that marijuana isn't even in the same category as something like coke, and that is something I'm greatful for. Kids are very impressionable, and if they are lied to they'll remember it and not trust much else you have to say about the same topic.

As with everything else, education/knowledge is key because lies can backfire and cause the same harm that they were trying to prevent.

Satori

 

[Liquid Tension]

Originally posted by Moonlapse
I think Opeth are a great example of how someone can write creatively with no influence of drugs (only fatigue) and the fact is that people are risking their lives because their creativity is limited to consuming these life-fucking substances.

How can you feel that alcohol isn't a mind altering drug?

I'm sorry if this ruins your perspective of Opeth but they are drug users as long as alcohol is a part of their lives!

Time to go fill the bong and listen to Morningrise!

 

[Cutter]

Originally posted by Liquid Tension
How can you feel that alcohol isn't a mind altering drug?

I'm sorry if this ruins your perspective of Opeth but they are drug users as long as alcohol is a part of their lives!

Time to go fill the bong and listen to Morningrise!

You might want to read some of the later posts, as we've already established that alcohol is a mind affecting drug.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Originally posted by Cutter
You might want to read some of the later posts, as we've already established that alcohol is a mind affecting drug.

I didn't see anywhere that "we" have established this point out. I know that someone mentioned it but my point was to DRIVE the point across to this author who I didn't recall anywhere that they admit to how false their intial statement is.

 

[Cutter]

Originally posted by Liquid Tension
I didn't see anywhere that "we" have established this point out. I know that someone mentioned it but my point was to DRIVE the point across to this author who I didn't recall anywhere that they admit to how false their intial statement is.

point notably driven

 

[CERVEZA]

Just my opinion. If you use drugs either get help or overdose!!!.
No matter how you put it, drugs are shit.
It's a personal decision and I don't care.....But when us, as a society, have to pay for those fuckers, it really pisses me off.

 

[Ermz]

Originally posted by Liquid Tension
How can you feel that alcohol isn't a mind altering drug?

I'm sorry if this ruins your perspective of Opeth but they are drug users as long as alcohol is a part of their lives!

Time to go fill the bong and listen to Morningrise!

I can't recall Mikael ever saying that he wrote anything while drunk out of his mind... the effects of alcohol, as far as I know, don't enhance creativity any and would not greatly help with writing music. I wouldn't lump alcohol into the same 'mind-altering' category as Pot, but of course it certainly is mind-altering in its own way. Also, I'm sure they smoked alot during the recording of the albums, but I wouldn't say that has a significant effect on their performance... it only makes the days more bearable and relaxing.

And Satori... I agree with all of that, that's basically the POV im going with now, even though I'm compelled to spell out the negatives more than the positives in most cases.

In Humanities class when we learned about drugs like 4 years in a row, they had all the known effects of drugs listed for us and also the damage in the long term... they categorized the drugs under different categories (Depressants, Hallucinogens etc. etc.) and I think the line is drawn now between Crack, Heroin and Pot and I think that's why a majority of school kids are using Pot as opposed to the other 2 potentially more harmful drugs, and I suppose that's at least some consolation... although alcohol is a whole different thing... binge drinking is very big, especially at parties... kids get completely FUCKED outta their minds.

Anyway, rant over, I think it's time to give this thread a rest ahh... haha. Thanks alot for the arguements Satori, it was fun, it's nice to be able to appreciate another person's POV without it being accompanied by 'you fag' etc. etc.

 

[Opet]

Rest? No!

Moonlapse-
"I can't recall Mikael ever saying that he wrote anything while drunk out of his mind... the effects of alcohol, as far as I know, don't enhance creativity any and would not greatly help with writing music."

BLOODBATH!

15 years down the road scientists discover the once hidden importance of certain drugs. Like vaccines, everyone is required to do LSD by the age of 20! "Pot's legal in Canada today (Feb. 1)." someone said to me recently.

 

[poptartofdeath]

Originally posted by PiercedFromWithin
Anyone who has listened to Pink Floyd on mushrooms, LSD or acid must know what I mean.

*grins* LSD is acid. Just givin ya shit, man. Strong post though. It's whether you use or abuse. If you can stay in control, use responsibly and make sure noone gets hurt with it then there's no problem. When it starts wrecking things there's an issue.

Anywho.

I experimented with drugs quite a bit when I was a bit younger. I ODed on an over the counter drug called Coreciden (sp? We just called it Triple C) so I drew the line after that. Was basically dirty ecstasy and it cost like 5 bucks for a box so of course it had become popular. Eventually you just keep doing more and more of it to get heightened effects, and I guess being big into prescription pills didn't help either. I don't regret what happened though, I learned, and if it wouldn't have happened like it did I may have moved onto ketamine or heroin or T-7, stuff a bit more dangerous. But I went clean for a couple years, for quite a few reasons..reputation, making sure I still had control over myself, to a lesser extent cash. But recently I've started back up, doing weed from time to time (never used to like it) and getting back to my old shrooms habit...I just gotta say, shrooms give you the kind of escape that's hard to achieve unaided. They do a good job of letting you block out all the day-to-day crap in your life for 5 or 6 hours with some friends and let your mind flow onto circuits that you usually don't have time to consider. They've never aided me in writing music but have been a welcome boon for my fiction writing.

What I had before was a drug problem, it was hurting me, my friends, my reputation, my mind and my wallet. Now it's doing none of those things (I grow myself ) and helping out.

Use responsibly. I think drugs can definately aid in the creative process but aren't necesary.