Drum Parallel Compression- brain no-work

[gorath23]

Ok, well I came across this whilst looking through a copy of SoundonSound magazine and thought I'd give it a go to really bring the drums together and give it extra punch. I originally set it up on the Drum Folder Channel, as everything passes through there, so it seemed logical to me, and it worked, at least to my noob ears anyway. After reading the Faderwear guide though.....

http://www.faderwear.com/guides/parallel_compression.shtml

It seems as though applying the comp on the Folder channel is a no-no - why is this an issue, everything is routed through there so the actual amount of comp stays the same regardless of whether you decrease the fader, everything stays the same ratio-wise, right?? If I set up a separate channel for the Drum ParaComp, as suggested then surely its going to double up your drums, as you are routing not only the un-compressed sound through the folder but also another Compressed drumset, why would you want both, surely all you want is just the Compressed Kit? I apologise as this may seem a bit non-sensical but I'm having trouble getting my head round the concept and the routing. I use Reaper which seems to have a fairly simple routing/send/receive system but still, I'm confused.

 

[Ermz]

The whole idea of parallel compression is to have an uncompressed signal coming through simultaneously with a compressed one. What this seems to do sonically is thicken up the uncompressed signal without killing the transients. I've only recently tried it on a large scale with drums on a rock production and it worked better than I ever could have imagined. I see myself using it to some degree on most of the heavier projects I'll work on from here on.

Btw the SSL G Comp is an amazing plug-in for parallel bus compression.

 

[gorath23]

The whole idea of parallel compression is to have an uncompressed signal coming through simultaneously with a compressed one. What this seems to do sonically is thicken up the uncompressed signal without killing the transients. I've only recently tried it on a large scale with drums on a rock production and it worked better than I ever could have imagined. I see myself using it to some degree on most of the heavier projects I'll work on from here on.

Btw the SSL G Comp is an amazing plug-in for parallel bus compression.

So having a separate Parallel Comp bus is the way to go then? and just bring up the level of its fader to suit? I'm currently very new to this and with a distinct lack of funds, so after SOS recommended the Buzzroom Grancomp I've been using that and it seemed to work great, can't wait to give it a go when I'm actually doing it right! Should I be leaving the Comp at Post-Fader (default setting in Reaper) btw? Thanks for the help.

 

[Metaltastic]

Definitely wanna have the comp pre-fader (so the position of the fader doesn't change it), and yeah, +1 to what Moonlapse said.

 

[gorath23]

Definitely wanna have the comp pre-fader (so the position of the fader doesn't change it), and yeah, +1 to what Moonlapse said.

Ok, I'm confused again. That doesn't then tally with Daunts Faderwear Guide, as he says:

'Now slowly raise the DrumsParaCom fader and listen to the drum sound getting bigger and bigger!'

 

[smy1]

Ok, I'm confused again. That doesn't then tally with Daunts Faderwear Guide, as he says:

'Now slowly raise the DrumsParaCom fader and listen to the drum sound getting bigger and bigger!'

Yes,

"prefader" means that the signal from the SEND channel to the compressor is independent of the fader position on the SEND channel (drums). So even if you have your drum fader all the way down, the compressor inserted on the aux RETURN will get the full signal.

Daunt is talking about the fader on the aux RETURN channel. When you pull this down to the bottom and bring it up, you will hear more and more of the compressed signal added.

Hope this makes sense?

 

[gorath23]

Yes,

"prefader" means that the signal from the SEND channel to the compressor is independent of the fader position on the SEND channel (drums). So even if you have your drum fader all the way down, the compressor inserted on the aux RETURN will get the full signal.

Daunt is talking about the fader on the aux RETURN channel. When you pull this down to the bottom and bring it up, you will hear more and more of the compressed signal added.

Hope this makes sense?

Hmm, I think I get it. So If I opened up the I/O box for the DrumParaComp channel I would set all the Receive's (from all the relevant bits of the kit) to Pre-Fader, or would I have to set it at the other end on the Sends from the individual bits to --> ParaComp.

As a separate question, instead of having to route all the bits of kit separately can I just take a send from the main Drum Folder to the ParaComp?

You guys must think I'm really dumb

 

[Russtopher]

What I normally do is render a stereo mixdown of the kick, snare, and tom channels in Reaper. I'll solo them, squash the crap out of them, and render them down and insert them into the project. It's a little less processor-intensive that way, for me anyways on a crap 1.4Ghz machine, and it allows me to have the heavily compressed track underneath and squash it a little more if I need to, or EQ it differently so it mixes in better.

 

[fooman]

I usually need parallel compression on the snare, and sometimes the toms. I rarely need to PC the kick because I sample it and do what I need with UAD Transient Designer and whatnot.

Anywho, I will usually sample the snare from the real drum so any parallel compression doesn't affect anything BUT the snare. If you squish something with bleed, it will really be brought out and often that's something you don't want. So a sample cleans it up and since it's the drum that was played at the session it's natural. I usually hit it with the UAD stuff.... 1176, Transient Designer, Neve EQ or Pultec. It's what I have available to me. I also have the original track there playing along and maybe EQ'd and compressed a bit.

This usually works nicely to bring the snare out of the mix but sound natural and not overly processed. I couldn't really work with a snare sample that wasn't the real drum because it wouldn't sound, well, real.

 

[RipShredmohr]

You might like the Vanilla compressor from Chunkware. It is freeware and has a wet/dry control for parallel stuff. I would post a link but they seem to have disappeared. I could e-mail to you if you want it.

 

[schust]

maybe i can help, given i have reaper and have been experimenting with this (and a few other things) drum-wise for a while.

first off - you can control the I/O aspects at either the SEND track or corresponding RECEIVE track. doesn't matter. if you make a change on the SEND - you'll see it reflected on the corresponding RECEIVE and vice-versa. make sense?

secondly, Reaper offers 'pre-fx', 'post-fx' and 'post-fader (post pan)' options for I/O sends. until reading this thread, i was using the the reaper default of 'post-fader (post pan)'. it makes complete sense now that is NOT the option to use. depending on what you're doing on the drums tracks (e.g. triggering), 'pre-fx' or 'post-fx' would be the choice. just make sure 'fader' isn't a factor because you want the whole signal going to your comp send (as noted above).

in my situation, i always sample my kick, snare and toms - so i'm using 'post-fx' to make sure it's the sample sound going to the comp and not the original.

finally, i did work with 'folders' in Reaper for a while, especially when grouping all drums tracks, but found sending the individuals tracks was better because it provided a means to control what i sent - and also worked well with the technique i'm using to mix the drums (multi-sends, efx, etc.).

 

[Deadstar]

what about phase issues?

 

[Omega_Void]

what about phase issues?

Since a compressor only adjusts the level of the signal there should be none.

If the compressor has latency and your host isn't buffering latencies then phasing will occur as the dry and processed signals will be out of sync. Most hosts buffer the plugin latencies automatically (FL Studio is an exception), and many compressor plugs have no latency anyway.

If the compressor also includes some additional equalization some frequency-dependent phase cancellations might occur. Which might not be a problem, depending on how it sounds.

 

[Ermz]

I think what he's referring to is that every signal process that a signal goes through induces some form of phase shift. For Parallel Compression so far I haven't heard anything overly audible, although as with all things it should be used with discretion and not gone overboard. Nothing worse than hearing drums where you can hear the compressor just sucking and pumping the sound constantly.

 

[MetallyGuitarded]

Btw the SSL G Comp is an amazing plug-in for parallel bus compression.

Is the SSL G Comp hardware or is that one of the Waves plugs?

 

[Ermz]

It's both, but the one I was referring to was the Waves plug-in. Could imagine the real deal is even better though.

 

[Metaltastic]

And there's the one on the Duende too, which I'd imagine is better than the Waves (though not as good as the rackmounted one, naturally)

 

[AudioGeekZine]

I usually use Smack! for my drum crush bus, it works well to send the bass tracks to it too.

You need to worry about phase issues if the plugin has lots of latency, smack has only 1 sample so you don't hear it. Some others have 1024 samples of delay and you can definitely hear 2 discrete hits, really defeating the purpose.

Waves SSL Bus compressor is a fantastic plug, I haven't tried it on the drum bus yet, I haven't checked how much delay it has yet either.