Dumbass Question

See - that was my next question. The whole "my music is good, your music is bad" thing.

Is it possible to say that a particular band/album/genre is "good" without being completely subjective?

Example: I think most people would agree that Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of The Moon" is a great album. But what does that mean? Seems to me that all it means is that it is a popular album. Can you accurately measure "goodness" without factoring in personal opinion?

With Opeth, I think at least 75% of all people would think their music is crap (not that I care...) But the smart ones would have to admit that at least they are a meticulous band who obviously care about the quality of their musicianship, despite the unpopular form it takes.

So, does that make Opeth a good band?

Another example: I personally do not like more that 1 or 2 Elvis songs. The rest is crap as far as I'm concerned. But I do recognize the fact that he was one of the most popular musicians of his time. Does that make him good?

Discuss.

- What's-his-face :p
 
Décadent said:
7720linkinpark1-med.jpg


Close enough.
Click to expand...

heheheh.
The linkin Park dudes in my school disguise themselves in trenchcoats and wear pentagram necklaces and shit. I used to get fooled by the get up and ask them what they were listening to, and they'd respond with "Linkin Park" or "Good Charlotte" :yuk: :yuk:
 
Décadent said:
What's made from a legitimate reason/beleif is better than what's made for an income.

[Edit] Keep in mind this comment was not meant to be genre-specific in any way
Click to expand...
Exactly. So all the while that I feel that there's lots of good things in every genre and it's all just a matter of music taste (e.g., I know there's good underground hip-hop, electronic music, good pop music, even good nu-metal, etc), I find that some of the more commercialized representations of these genres are very shallow. Call me an elitist if you like, but I'll continue to stick my belief that say, Miles Davis or Opeth are generally more intelligent, unique and musically diverse than 50 Cent and Linkin Park.


btw Décadent, I love that Linkin Park pic :lol:
 
Um...musically, rap is inferior to metal. Likewise, nu-metal is inferior to classical/progressive metal. There isn't room for debate. Ask any composer, music professor, or critic whether Linkin Park is musically superior to Opeth, and they'll all say no. Guaranteed. There's too much of a musical contrast.

Whether you like either band and their respective genre is purely taste and a matter of opinion, but it does not change the fact that some bands/genres are more musical than other bands/genres by convention.
 
The metal > everything argument is pretty weak generaly. All the musical genres have underground counterparts, many of which have sub-genres which exist for counter-commercialism. I have no doubt that there's artists within the rap scene who are looking at 50 Cent and thinking "what a fucking idiot" in the same manner as we look upon bands like Linkin Park and Korn.
 
Apprentice's Master said:
Um...musically, rap is inferior to metal. Likewise, nu-metal is inferior to classical/progressive metal. There isn't room for debate. Ask any composer, music professor, or critic whether Linkin Park is musically superior to Opeth, and they'll all say no. Guaranteed. There's too much of a musical contrast.

Whether you like either band and their respective genre is purely taste and a matter of opinion, but it does not change the fact that some bands/genres are more musical than other bands/genres by convention.
Click to expand...
its not a question of musical "superiority". you've entirely missed the point.

its a question of artistic value, and because everyone values different things, you cannot claim that one is better than the other. ask a music professor which is better, rap or classical. ask a kid from the inner city which is better, rap or classical. its all about viewpoints. which is better, tell me? water or gold? if you are in the ocean, clearly gold is more valuable as water is all around you. if you are in the desert however, you would throw away gold if it meant you would have water. you can't claim elitism for any genre because all genres are different and thus incomparable. you're asking me to compare apples and swords. how does one do that? also: genres are not clearly defined regions. they are fuzzy interconnected shadows, and to completely discount one or another as inferior is an oxymoron because you would be detracting from that which you declare superior at the same moment, at the region where they connect.

the point that's being driven here is COMMERCIAL music, that is, music whose sole existence is income, is inferior to music whose basis is a valid artistic expression/intent. this is because music that has a driven purpose achieves a goal for its creator and its intended audiences. music rooted in money however, merely sells. it is no more than its constituent parts. it has no profound meaning or purpose. that is what we are saying.
 
@dorian: having just graduated from high school a year ago, i can probably serve as some kind of authority on "emo"...the wily and elusive Emo Kid generally wears a white belt, trucker hat, ironic and/or "vintage" t-shirt, tight jeans, converse all-stars, nose and/or lip piercing, gauged ears, star tattoos, dyed black hair swept over one side of face, box-frame glasses, etc....emo bands are all basically "i'm going to play acoustic guitar and whine country lyrics and cry"

best expressed by the old chestnut, "how many emo kids does it take to screw in a lightbulb?"









"none, let them cry in the dark"
 
Actually when I was in High School (5 years ago) I didn't see a single person wearing those t-shirts, so thank Behemoth for that.

...No wait, they didn't wear linkin park t-shirts 'cause we wore uniforms.


cthulufhtagn said:
...having just graduated from high school a year ago, i can probably serve as some kind of authority on "emo"...
Click to expand...
 
Despising the uniforms and shit, public and private education here's the same shit, the stupid difference is that you have to pay.
And I went to a private school because in the public ones they didn't accept me. Bwahahahaha! Fucking low grades... :lol:
 
Silent Song said:
its not a question of musical "superiority". you've entirely missed the point.

its a question of artistic value, and because everyone values different things, you cannot claim that one is better than the other. ask a music professor which is better, rap or classical. ask a kid from the inner city which is better, rap or classical. its all about viewpoints. which is better, tell me? water or gold? if you are in the ocean, clearly gold is more valuable as water is all around you. if you are in the desert however, you would throw away gold if it meant you would have water. you can't claim elitism for any genre because all genres are different and thus incomparable. you're asking me to compare apples and swords. how does one do that? also: genres are not clearly defined regions. they are fuzzy interconnected shadows, and to completely discount one or another as inferior is an oxymoron because you would be detracting from that which you declare superior at the same moment, at the region where they connect.

the point that's being driven here is COMMERCIAL music, that is, music whose sole existence is income, is inferior to music whose basis is a valid artistic expression/intent. this is because music that has a driven purpose achieves a goal for its creator and its intended audiences. music rooted in money however, merely sells. it is no more than its constituent parts. it has no profound meaning or purpose. that is what we are saying.
Click to expand...


Its people like you that make sterilization programs a necessity. Your cliche use of the relativistic fallacy comes about 100 years too late.
 
If i felt spending my time going into detail of why you are an idiot would have an impact, i might contribute more. At the moment im comfortable observing and making little comments that will go unheard for my own amusement.
 
Justin S. said:
If i felt spending my time going into detail of why you are an idiot would have an impact, i might contribute more. At the moment im comfortable observing and making little comments that will go unheard for my own amusement.
Click to expand...
i'm glad you're amused since you certainly amused me too :lol:

judging from your response, i bet you'd be the guy who choose gold in the desert and dies of dehydration. point being: prove to me that one genre of music is better than another. its like trying to prove to me that red is better than blue because its your favorite.
 
You know what, ill play, but only with your first sentence.

Silent Song: "its a question of artistic value, and because everyone values different things, you cannot claim that one is better than the other"

Lets look closely at the second clause:
"because everyone values different things, you cannot claim that one is better than the other"

And according to this rigid logic, you cannot claim that one cannot claim that "one is better than the other", because its all a matter of preference, right? This is not symantics; you are establishing strict codes of thought and then sequentially denying it!

The most glaring flaw in relativism, is that it cannot criticize the critic of relativism.
 
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