Education in the US

Dak

mentat
Aug 9, 2008
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Among the Horrors
CNN - U.S. 'Soviet-style education system not cutting it

By Clark Howard
HLN

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Our educational system is essentially a Soviet-style government-run monopoly that could only be loved by the likes of Lenin and Stalin.


HLN Money Expert Clark Howard says the American education system isn't giving taxpayers their money's worth.

Now, I know that's a strong opening statement, but consider this: The government decides where your kids go to school; what curriculum they'll study; and even develops long-term educational plans just like the Communists devised five-year plans.

This kind of "one-size-fits-all" approach really punishes kids. And zero tolerance policies are a symptom of the stranglehold our government has on schools.

For example, the Supreme Court recently heard a case about a 13-year-old Arizona student suspected of possessing Advil back in 2003. For that crime, she was strip-searched to see if she had hidden ibuprofen pills on her body.

The Arizona school system maintained it had the right to do what it did. What's more, it remained defiant through the years, constantly appealing unfavorable lower court decisions when challenged. Arizona ultimately took the case all the way up to the highest court in the land. In late June, the Supremes ruled 8-1 that the school system's actions were unconstitutional. See Clark discuss why he thinks governments shouldn't own banks »

In another instance of an insane zero tolerance policy, The Washington Post reports that a Virginia teen was suspended for two weeks last year after taking a prescription birth-control pill during lunch.

This was not a religious or moral issue; the school was instead arguing that it was illegal for students to have prescription pills on the premises. That student even faced expulsion!

This is what we've done by not offering school choice in our nation. I have long been a fan of vouchers, charter schools and home schooling to bust up the government monopoly on the education of our children.

Do you think this whole issue doesn't affect you because you don't have kids? Think again. Huge amounts of your taxes are still spent to support schools that are failures.

If this country is going to invest so much into government-run education, we should be taking a cue from a nation like Finland. Simply put, the Finns have the best public education system in the world.

Their 15 year-old students are consistently excelling in standardized testing versus any other nation, according to the results of the most recent PISA exams (Program for International Student Assessment) -- a test of academic proficiency administered every three years in many countries.

Finnish students ranked No. 1 in science scores, and No. 2 in both math and reading. And the United States? We come in at No. 29 in science, No. 35 in math, and a recent U.S. reading score which wouldn't even track in the top 10 countries in the world.

In Finland, children begin studying algebra, geometry and statistics in the first grade. By 15, they speak three languages, which, of course, is not uncommon throughout Europe.


According to The Dallas Morning News, a team of Texas educators recently traveled to Helsinki to learn from the Finns. What they found was that teachers had 100 percent freedom to educate as they saw fit. They treated their classroom like an entrepreneur would treat his or her business.

Contrast that to how we do things in America with our five-year plans and giant bureaucracies determining what gets taught. Our brand of institutionalized "education lite" -- with far too few hours spent in the classroom and an antiquated summer vacation schedule from America's agrarian days -- just isn't cutting it.

I saw first-hand the extreme difference between the home-schooling I got for 10 years of grade school versus the 2 years in college and the "lowest common denominator" style of education in the Marine Corps.

I definitely agree with this article. The public school system in this country has been failing for a long time at teaching children how to think for themselves, and instead teaching them what to think. Without an overhaul, our future is only going to get dimmer.
 
Sounds like he's describing a pedagogic failure. If there's one thing in Nordic schools that's superior to everywhere else, it's how teacher pedagogy is valued. It's just a hunch of mine, but I'm pretty sure that I'm correct on this. Everywhere else, from what I've seen, things seem a little more robotic and "this is what you're supposed to learn, learn it".
 
Different things work for different people. My mom taught me how to read and then just basically gave me a stack of books to read/complete work from on a daily basis. She did basically zero "teaching", just made sure I was learning on my own. End result was being in the upper percentiles in most subjects, math excepting (I hate math, boring as hell to me).
 
Eh, I just got out of high school and the system there wasn't TOO horrible. We had a few good teachers that made us interested in what we were learning, most of it was pretty horrible though.
 
The US education system is utter shite, but it certainly isn't socialist. The Department of Education was started by the Rockefeller family, and the small of the story is that there are still powerful people operating to keep education at a sub-standard level to generate apathetic consumers with the most talented rising above it.
 
That is "conspiracy" talk which I completely agree with, especially considering the Rockefeller connection. I am just surprised it came from someone associated with Dodens.
 
The public schools in the U.S.A. need to be fixed now.

 
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The US education system is utter shite, but it certainly isn't socialist. The Department of Education was started by the Rockefeller family, and the small of the story is that there are still powerful people operating to keep education at a sub-standard level to generate apathetic consumers with the most talented rising above it.

I had not hear that idea, but it sounds plausible.
 
all textbooks are produced by the same few powerhouses

the education system in the U.S. is fucked. Programs like Open Court and other shit pretty much de-value the teacher and curriculum and turn everything (including the students) into molded automatons. the emphasis once placed on individuality and creativity is gone.

I'm homeschooling my kids in the future
 
The education system in the US has problems but to compare to the Soviet Union is absurd and harmful. The five year plans of the Soviet Union have absolutely nothing to do with modern American education whatever that fucking moron who wrote the article says. I am really sick and tired of faggots on the right wing comparing any sort of government service to totalitarian communism. They need to stop sucking Reagan's dead cock and get into the real world.

Sorry for the rant, the whole health care debate has worn my tolerance for stupidity very thin.

The idea of having a standard, publicly available education system is not what's wrong, it's the execution. Personally I think I was very well served by public education but it's obvious that many, especially the poor, are not. I am at this time ignorant of education policy but I'm sure someone has some good ideas on how to make public education better.
 
Other than reading a few essential books in High School, I learned nothing I didn't already know until I went to College at Wayne State University in Detroit.
 
The education system in the US has problems but to compare to the Soviet Union is absurd and harmful. The five year plans of the Soviet Union have absolutely nothing to do with modern American education whatever that fucking moron who wrote the article says. I am really sick and tired of faggots on the right wing comparing any sort of government service to totalitarian communism. They need to stop sucking Reagan's dead cock and get into the real world.

Sorry for the rant, the whole health care debate has worn my tolerance for stupidity very thin.

The idea of having a standard, publicly available education system is not what's wrong, it's the execution. Personally I think I was very well served by public education but it's obvious that many, especially the poor, are not. I am at this time ignorant of education policy but I'm sure someone has some good ideas on how to make public education better.

This. I have to admit seeing Canada ranking highly makes me feel good, though.
 
The education system in the US has problems but to compare to the Soviet Union is absurd and harmful. The five year plans of the Soviet Union have absolutely nothing to do with modern American education whatever that fucking moron who wrote the article says. I am really sick and tired of faggots on the right wing comparing any sort of government service to totalitarian communism. They need to stop sucking Reagan's dead cock and get into the real world.

Hear hear. It is mind blowing to me that such an asinine viewpoint (I am referring to his opening paragraph more or less) is given so much exposure in the mainstream discourse of America.

And yeah, looking back at my time in highschool, I would say the Ontario system is pretty solid from my experience. Not that that means much in any scientific sense, but any sort of blanket conclusion on this sort of thing is bound to be riddled with problems anyhow.
 
The first half of the article was moronic drivel; the Soviet comparison is absurd, the examples of zero-tolerance gone to far were irrelevant, and the conclusion of the article is based on a whole shitload of assumptions and comparisons that are completely invalid. The bullshit conspiracy theory about the Rockafellers is also fucking stupid.

That said, many public schools have serious problems. However, I don't think bureaucracy is one of them. Insufficient funding, overworked teachers, unmotivated students, etc is more of an issue.
 
The article was mostly right. Some of it was bs. While the teachers are overworked I think lack of motivation can be applied to them as well.
 
kids are being taught that white people are evil. the liberal agenda is taking control of our school system and it has to stop.

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Sorry for the rant, he whole health care debate has worn my tolerance for stupidity very thin.

I heard this on mock the week, not the height of the correct information but it's usually nearish.

Basically Obama is trying to give 45 million people free healthcare, and people are annoyed about it?
Srsly?
 
The bullshit conspiracy theory about the Rockafellers is also fucking stupid.

That said, many public schools have serious problems. However, I don't think bureaucracy is one of them. Insufficient funding, overworked teachers, unmotivated students, etc is more of an issue.

Bureaucracy is a huge reason behind the insufficient funding and overworked teachers. Pop culture and bad parenting can be thanked for unmotivated students. The government is a model of inefficiency in everything it does (I know firsthand, I have worked for it for 5 years). Education is no different.


As far as the Rockefellers go, obviously you don't read much, or understand "conflict of interest".