US Education

Mutual funds, diversification, etc. etc., Steve.

Ramsey recommends 15% of income be directed to retirement, either through company-sponsored (and hopefully company matched) 401(k) plans and Roth IRAs (I think it's $5,000 per year per adult).
 
Unlike bombing countries into oblivion, the space research is crucial to the future of humankind, as you said, we are only prolonging the inevitable - we will destroy earth with our pollution and wars. So it's best to have a Plan B beforehand. Money much better spent.
 
Believe it or not some of us dont have free funds. At the time when I did, I invested in my own business, which paid much better than any other investments would have, however that better American idea came along and blindsided me before I got to where I could put the extra cash away for later. I did max the IRA for a few years which was peanuts at the time. I was looknig forward to running the savings account up within a few years, things changed nearly over night. That was 8 yrs ago, since then I have 3 years into the Teamsters fund but I wont complete that due to something I did wrong, one great big fucking mistake there is nothing I can do about now.
 
Unlike bombing countries into oblivion, the space research is crucial to the future of humankind, as you said, we are only prolonging the inevitable - we will destroy earth with our pollution and wars. So it's best to have a Plan B beforehand. Money much better spent.

I think its a mask Ken, kinda like when the teachers and school boards use the "its an investment in your childrens future" line, when what they are really saying is... "we want a raise, please invest in our future"

While my daughter did better in school than myself, she recieved no different education but at a school budget that was astromonical compared to what got the job done in my school days.

As for Mars, that was part of what I used the inevitable voicing for. What the fuck kind of life could that possibly be and if it did become feasable it would be for the fortunant few silver spoons.
 
At the risk of sounding cold, better that some survive than go extinct?

Plus on the happy side, space inventions have given us a lot of cool, useful, and important stuff over the years. People just don't realize it. And not just space is important- environmental stuff (help it while we can), medicine, etc. We really should be pushing ourselves as a species. Adapt to survive or perish.
 
15 years bro, just need 15 more years, on my last day I will stop worrying and finally pray for you guys and your children
 
To quote President Coolidge, "America's business is business". We operate in a capitalist society. Without business, and subsequent "work", we would be little as a country.

Smarter people habitually look toward the future rather than living in the now. An intersting book to read is The Millionaire Next Door. Very sound concepts are presented in that book. And if you can find one, I recommend attending Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University seminar.



Regarding your Coolidge quote:

This is EXACTLY the type of thinking that perpetuates the problem. Sure, let's just all resign ourselves to the idea that capitalism is the all-powerful way of life. I can't SCREAM this loud enough, but the fact that our country is defined by our "subsequent WORK" is precisely the fucking problem!!!!!!! You seem to just accept it as a reality and therefore something we should just align ourselves around. Sorry, but no thank you.



And "smarter" people look forward to the future rather than living in the now?? Tell me, McFly, just exactly what time traveling device you've secretly concocted??? Intelligent people live in the NOW, with a mindful/discretionary respect for the past and a selfless, worldly perspective on the future.
 
Regarding your Coolidge quote:

This is EXACTLY the type of thinking that perpetuates the problem. Sure, let's just all resign ourselves to the idea that capitalism is the all-powerful way of life. I can't SCREAM this loud enough, but the fact that our country is defined by our "subsequent WORK" is precisely the fucking problem!!!!!!! You seem to just accept it as a reality and therefore something we should just align ourselves around. Sorry, but no thank you.



And "smarter" people look forward to the future rather than living in the now?? Tell me, McFly, just exactly what time traveling device you've secretly concocted??? Intelligent people live in the NOW, with a mindful/discretionary respect for the past and a selfless, worldly perspective on the future.

A complete contradiction to your oil price post.

Kenneth is right we need more education to align the ignorantly contradictive, but myself Im glad I ignored all the spoon fed pre training of the school systems and rely on my years of first hand experience watching all this bullshit unfold as the educated ran around like the self important ignorant zombies they are.
 
By "living in the now", I mean people live like there is no tomorrow in terms of their money. Many do not seem to know "short-term sacrifice for long-term gain". Do you really need cable TV at your house? Do you really need to spend $30k on a new car. Do you really need this that or the other? Or can you sacrifice non-necessities (perhaps really defining what is truly a necessity first is where people get lost) and push that money instead into a savings account of some type (preferably something making better than 8% return)?

SCREAM all you want to, really. I could care less. It seems to me you are a stereotypical example of the tyranny of the individual. Because you choose not to work in the rat race, you seem to believe your solutions are the best and greatest. America is built on a capitalist economy. The world is shifting to much the same, modeled after our economy. We're struggling now, yes, and I think it's a result of Americans becoming lazy slobs preaching their ideals for laziness and self-gratitude. Your post seems to lose the "mindful/discretionary respect" of our past.

What can one accomplish in a world with a truly selfless perspective on the future? Without taking care of one's self first, one cannot take care of much else.
 
That's my point. You won't get many on board to do so. And if you actually could get many on board the bus, you would have too many bus drivers and the bus would either go nowhere or eventually drive off the cliff.
 
A complete contradiction to your oil price post.

Kenneth is right we need more education to align the ignorantly contradictive, but myself Im glad I ignored all the spoon fed pre training of the school systems and rely on my years of first hand experience watching all this bullshit unfold as the educated ran around like the self important ignorant zombies they are.
Yeah, which is why the education system needs to be fixed. So we don't have idiot-factories.

PS, I think the moderate position is correct in terms of 'living in the now' and 'living for tomorrow'. It's best to take care of things so that in the future you will be prepared and meet the goals you strive for. It's important to defend that future, and to take steps to make it happen. In the same hand, it comes as a given that you won't get there if all-ur-base belong to them. So you need to secure the fort for now too. Doing just one or the other will ensure that you won't make it to that faraway goal.
 
I always said I did my logging with one eye on today and the other on the future, but so many only looked at today and their forests got raped, markets flooded with over production, ect. I did alright financially, was self sufficient and had top quality final product on the log pile and in the residual forest... what ever good it did me. Did it all by myself too, no training, no forestry education, just common sense. Cant say the same for the State Foresters who were forestry grads.

Imagine if we ran our checkbooks as the government does... arent they grads of some sort ?
 
General thoughts on the subject (having only skimmed the thread):

I think anyone with a brain knows that things aren't entirely working. The biggest problem I had with they way things worked in most of my classes in high school is that everyone (teacher, administration, parents, other students, etc.) seemed more interested in bringing standards down to the students rather than brining the students up to standard. It pissed me off to no end and, because of it, I'm still bitter about the fact that I feel cheated out of the education I should've gotten. I know I ended up immensely better off than most for one reason: self-motivation. The vast majority of stuff I've retained is stuff that I learned on my own time. I feel blessed to have had teachers (especially my senior English teacher) who not only did a great job in the classroom, but sparked enough interest to make me go the extra mile on my own time for no reasons other than my own. It's only gotten worse over time and it's starting at an early age.

Rather than books or thoughtful discussion, parents pop in a DVD or turn on the TV. For the kids, it's a minimal effort/instant short-term return endeavor. The seeds of laziness are planted. They make it it school a few years later, struggle through the most basic of things, barely squeeze by arbitrarily memorizing a few meaningless facts with no practical understanding of them, and are allowed to proceed. No actual learning has occurred. Lets not forget the few that will be diagnosed with some disorder or learning disability and either a)medicated or b)put in special programs. Now, I understand that there are some kids with legitimate problems and I fully support special attention for those kids. On the other hand....medication because your 6-year-old boy is hyper and sometimes disobedient in class? Shut the fuck up and discipline your child. Anyhow....so after being coddled and allowed to slip by, things obviously don't improve. Then you end up with teenagers who are terrified to read aloud in class because they still have to sound out words, and can't even complete the arduous task of comprehending what they are reading as they are reading it. Then you have remedial classes that allow people to graduate (with the same degree and in the same amount of time as the kids who did work hard and do well), despite having covered only a fraction of the amount of the material their peers covered. The sad part, is that most of them don't only fail at being book-smart, but severly lack basic comprehension skills and lack a lot of practical knowledge as well. Maybe this makes me a snob, but I avoided a lot of my peers in high school (and even now in college) because I don't like having to explain jokes, eliminate metaphors and similies from my speech, and generally lower my intellect to about 30% to be able to communicate. I'm doing the night-shift at the stock room at Target this Summer :)erk:) and I had a hard time tolerating my manager when I had my interview with her. I was glancing at her notes and was downright appalled by how many spelling/grammatical erro....disasters there were. There were at least three times throughout the interview where I had to have her repeat a question because of how poor her grammar was. I don't even mean stupid stuff like "John and me" vs. "John and I". There were pretty hardcore "wtf?" moments. What sickened me more than that was the fact that she would be allowed to sit in her position. Now, I'm expected to show her respect and view here as a superior, but all I feel towards her is pity. That leads me to my belief that diplomas and degrees are nothing more than a piece of paper anymore. The only thing a college degree proves anymore is that you have tuition money. Of course there are a lot of great, intelligent, hard-working people who come out of high school and college...but if there was ever a time when a diploma/degree was proof of those qualities, that time has passed.

Having seen the more positive side of things first hand, I only feel more pity for lazy kids and more spite for the parents and teachers who let them get that way. I am the result of teachers and family members who took a proactive approach to my education early in life so that later when it mattered, I cared about my education enough to be self-motivated and (at least by my standards) successful in my endeavors. I can sleep at night knowing that I've made the most of my education, whereas all too many sleep at night not even realizing that they haven't.
 
But see thats a one sided and definitely snobish view. I was far from a lazy kid, far from it, far from a lazy man after school, I flourished after I got away from school but all that bullshit in school was killing me. I honestly felt it was an insult to my intellegence. I didnt give two shits what a cotangent was, or a adverb, verb, adjective... in fact that bullshit in 7th grade English was when they lost me, I sat there thinking "you have got to be kidding me, someone found the need to break down the English language and put terms on words ? for what ever reason ? Its just speach and Im 12 and never had a problem understanding anybody or talking to anyone... WTF is the big deal, quit wasting my time" That is the honest truth, at 12 years of age these people had pissed me off. I have never had problems understanding anyone speach nor writing, I can talk hillbilly with the best of them and I can speak fluently with the "educated". I can only question the intellegence of those who can not understand others.

Then came 9th grade Algebra... "oh yeah, heres alot of stuff thats got to do with life" and it just got worse from there. I did enjoy Geometry, its very mechanical and obvious in application, but Algebra and Trig were like I was snapped up by aliens forcing me to speak some language I thought was grotesque, seriously, just the terminology made me feel like puking, it was so wanky, so who gives a fuck, so where are we going with this? I did however get a 94 on my August Algebra Regence... compared to the 36 I got in June where I signed my name to the paper, answered the few questions I understood and put my head on the desk and slept for the next hour. Sure you will say lazy, all I wanted to do was get home and go down in the shop and do some real work, or practice my guitar, or ride my bicycle... lazy ? Fuck no, I was 100% physical and personally find the brainy types lazy in the physical sense...however Im smart enough not to call them lazy because I know there are different forms of ambition. This basic understanding seems to have gone over the heads of brainiacs... so whos stupid ?

Make me memorize such and such a treaty or event and the day it happened in 17__. What does that matter? All that matters is that I understand how the country came to be and events that took place, I dont need to know that crap word for word, just the jest of the matter and thats only so I can appreaciate what it took to make this country what it WAS and have the ability to see the results of such events, not all that stupid memorization of intricacies. Apply the shit dont bore me to sleep.

I personally had a huge interest in electronics, forestry/woods, mechanics and other honestly productive means of spending ones time. They applied to my life and interests, but is this taught in school. No ! One must first suffer through years of strange math, english and science terminology in HS, then another 4 years of bullshit in college before they are allowed to learn the simple process of what performs what function inside a guitar amp or stereo (for example). Horseshit I say ! Stop the danceing around the friggin bush and get to the point. Stop wasting my time, years of my life because you are fanatically into all this happy terminology horseshit and teach me what I need to know. Frankly I believe school is a place where fanatic geeks exercise their obsessions as a way to promote their industry, job security, not unlike lawyers and politicians do or nearly any other industry. But its shoved down childrens throat at a time in their life when its really important to have fun and be a kid. Learning could be fun if the excess fat was removed and things that interested teens in the form of occupational interests were taught. But no, its all passed along as if everyone wants to be a scientist or doctor. Even then I have no idea why a Doctor or Vet or lawyer would need to know algebra or what the fuck and adjective is....... I mean really... get real and stop turning kids off by forcing ones obsessions down their throats. Lifes not that complicated, the sun comes up, you go to work, put in a productive day, come home, take care of your business, shower, eat and go to sleep, get up the next day and start again. Guess there isnt much money for the physical inept if everyone was allowed to live that way though. So alas we make it all so complicated and riddled with trickery.
 
Then came 9th grade Algebra... "oh yeah, heres alot of stuff thats got to do with life" and it just got worse from there. I did enjoy Geometry, its very mechanical and obvious in application, but Algebra and Trig were like I was snapped up by aliens forcing me to speak some language I thought was grotesque, seriously, just the terminology made me feel like puking, it was so wanky, so who gives a fuck, so where are we going with this?


Even then I have no idea why a Doctor or Vet or lawyer would need to know algebra or what the fuck and adjective is.......


Lifes not that complicated, the sun comes up, you go to work, put in a productive day, come home, take care of your business, shower, eat and go to sleep, get up the next day and start again. Guess there isnt much money for the physical inept if everyone was allowed to live that way though. So alas we make it all so complicated and riddled with trickery.


Well for starters, some people appreciate the thought of being a bit more well-rounded than what you're describing.


And you're right! Life wouldn't be complicated if everyone went to work, put in a "productive" day, shower, eat, etc.... It would be downright depressing. An education consisting of a broader range of knowledge is at least a start towards breaking the work-centered lifestyle encouraged in the U.S.
 
I always hated math in high school as well. I passed 9th grade algebra because I played guitar. In 10th grade geometry, my grade was so low (Something like a 37%), by law they had to bump it up to 50%.

Then in 11th grade physics it all just clicked (I was in geometry again and wasn't even supposed to be there because I wasn't in algebra 2, but for some reason I just stayed.) As strange as it may sound, and actually is, I began to be able to comprehend math/physics like I had never done before. I passed both physics 1&2 courses with around a 90% and my senior algebra 2 course with a 95% and never once did I ever study.

I moved from PA to IN last summer and thus had the year off before I really deciding what the fuck I was going to do with myself. I used it to self study calculus! With no help whatsoever. I actually enjoy sitting in my room and learning math. Who would have thought, I complete fucking idiot like me having the motivation to do that!:err:

My point is I didn't develop any motivation at all to learn until it was almost too late. I suspect that this is the case with a lot of other young kids. That's why I'm very critical of judging a kids work ethic and intelligence on how he/she did on the SATs and what their high school QPA was. While my senior GPA was around 4.3, my previous GPAs where in the 2.0s. Maybe this is a big reason why a lot of kids don't go to college or pursue what interests them because of this?