Evolution vs. Creation: The Cosmological Argument

[Chromatose]

evolution can be seen every day, in the progression of traits compared to that of generation to generation

the old standbys... the regression of appendexes and pinky toes

we are becoming more suited to our ever changing environments, of course the same has happened and is happening to all species in the past, present, and future

I acknowledge creation AND evolution.. creation in the sense, that it had to start somewhere (and of course this something was born from whatever was there before that, so in that sense, there is no beginning) this "god" is whatever you make of it, but its all referring to the same person/event , the flaw of humanity is to give a personality to this creator.. bringing forth this "God," and consequently, "religion"


fezz>>> your faith is based on facts?? then you are going against what FAITH is all about, belief WITHOUT facts.. you no longer have need for faith if it can be proven, and if you can, why can't anyone else?

 

[Lies and Perfidy]

Fezzilla, one question: are you trying to make people dislike you? Seriously. The whole fascism/pot smoking/etc. thing has finally died down, and now you come in saying "God exists and you can't disprove it, so I'm better than you!" Anyone with a brain knows that this is the wrong place to talk about creationism vs. evolution unless you want to be laughed at. So I'll tell you what - go away. Either we can't prove you wrong, or we just DON'T CARE - either way, you have full license to feel superior on your own time.

 

[Kon16ov]

ALL THEORIES ARE FLAWED BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL INVENTED BY HUMANS!!!!!! It's that simple.

Therein lies what truth we have. My coworkers and I go 'round and 'round about this, and I LOVE this kind of discussion. When we go 'round and 'round it's usually about the ideas of how people arrive at their decisions about religion, how or why they believe what they believe... All theories, all religions, everything is created by humans, even scripture handed down from on high, is interpreted by humans. To clarify, any religion, theory, belief-system is flawed, as it is all touched by the hands of man.

First, I had to giggle when I read that "my religion is based on facts. Evolution is blind faith." Correct me if I'm wrong, but is religion not based on faith? It may or may not be blind, but if it's based on the facts as presented by the Bible or other sources akin to the Bible, if your persuasion is not the Christian bent, then it's faith based on the ideas of others, to be interpreted by the self and becomes the basis of faith. Otherwise, it's sleepwalking.

Evolution, as something taken on blind faith, is kind of awkward -- Charles Darwin spent a lot of time formulating his theories about evolution, natural selection, what have you -- to call it blind faith. It's not about faith, at all. It's about postulates, theories, ideas, expanding your perceptions about what heretofore has been treated as absolute. Denying the existence of evidence of evolution is something that creationists, in general, take great pride in doing, while offering up very flimsy explanations for why things such as appendixes (appendices??), tailbones, partially-webbed feet, etc., occur in humans and are, indeed, reducing in size across generations. The bottom line, here, is that it’s closed-minded to discount the possibility of evolution. I don’t mean to buy into it full bore, but surely don’t discount the possibility – once you discount possibility in a situation, you eliminate any chance of attaining the truth, since truth is a distillation of facts, beliefs, perceptions and just a shade of interpretation.

To attempt to answer to the original question, "can anyone here explain the so-called fact of evolution-cosmology," why not look it up on the internet from various and sundry sources and decide for oneself. Aside from that, here’s the thing – it’s all in your head. REALLY! All of it – at this point what you get from this is what you interpret based on your beliefs, your experiences. Personally, I asked too many questions in youth group and got no worthwhile answers about subjects such as these, which is why I love discussing them. To look at this logically, follow my logic:
- the big bang theory: sounds good, but what went bang?
- creationism theory: God/god just decided to make *stuff*. Cool. Who made God? Just exists? Interesting, then what about the stuff that just went bang?
- a mixed theory: some deity set about the evolution of creation, or, the creation of evolution. This is fine, too, but there’s still the who made whom conundrum.

Personally, I’m more comfortable, with hybrid theories (the philosophical ones, the Lickin’ Pork ones...), as it allows for more possibilities. When one limits the scope of the answer, one limits the probabilities of an answer...at least that’s how I’ve always thought. There comes a time, though, when there’s just faith. That’s what religion is based on. Not the deity, not the rituals, not what everyone else believes, but your faith.

Hél, I’m not awake enough for any of this stuff. I was when I started this little missive, but it’s taken me a little longer than I intended.

 

[neal]

religion was created for man to justify his 'superiority' and self-importance.
-neal

 

[Lillitu]

no, an atheist does not say he can prove god doesn't exist, an atheist says you can't prove god *does* exist. Agnostics believe god doesn't exist but then again there might be a god. Let's not think about it much.

Webster: a-the-ist n. One who denies the existence of god.

webster: ag-nos-tic n. someon who believe that there can be no proof of the existence of god but does not deny the possiblity that god exists.

two completely different things.

Everything in this world is relative and subjective. Believe in whatever the hell you want. Purple skys, little green men, kittens that sing led zepplin songs, I don't give a shit. Just don't try to make me believe in it also.

 

[Chromatose]

oh.. you'll believe, lil.. YOU'LL BELIEVE

http://members.tripod.com/zirstemple/viking_kittens.swf

 

[neal]

Purple skys, little green men, kittens that sing led zepplin songs.

mushrooms.
-neal

 

[Lillitu]

No. You. Can. Not. Make. Me. Believe.

'shrooooooms....

 

[En Vind Av Sorg]

I find flaws in your statement. From age 1 i was bombarded with christian literature and belief. In essence i was "marked as christ's own" (for the time being). When i turned 13 i began to totally reject the fiath of christianity and began to hate all Judeo-christian religions from the knowledge i was gaining (i.e. crusades, corruption, genocides, etc.). In an essence i "unbaptized" myself. Now this is not to say i hate all people who fall under the catagorey of Judeo-Christians, that would be silly. I simply feel that you are ignorant to the facts (keep in mind ignorant is not an insult, is just means you have yet to learn something), and that you have not been givin a chance to consider your options. If you have and you still go back to Judeo-Christianity, you are either mental unhealthy, or extremely confused. Dissprove me if you will, i always enjoy a good argument.

 

[speed]

Fezzila- as much as I would like to respect your argument- it is totally ridiculous- not only does it go against ALL SCIENCE for the last 150 years- it is contrary to both biology, and physics.

Physics alone has found that every atom- electron is as old as, and comes from the big bang( or the implosion)- and is at least a few million years old- these atoms do not cease to exist- in fact the laws of time do not relate to atoms and electrons- they exist both in the past and the present-( I am pretty sure this is the case- it s been a little while since I studied this, yet I know the fundamental question of physics is explaining this paradox- as well as the total randomness of all quantum material- for instance a electron can be both in your computer in your room- and on the other side of the universe- it travels through every possible path in the universe- it is just most travel in a more direct route- still this shows how random every thing is) So, what I suppose I am saying here- is -If God did exist- he did play Dice like Einstein said- The universe is not based on nice neat rational laws- but more on randomness and chaos- and what God would create a universe based on Chaos- and What God would create a world were even those that worship him- would also live in Chaos- disorder- suffering, etc.?


The last thing I will say- is it is clear that God is dead- the scriptures are so thouroughly out of touch with the mankind of today- it is ridiculous- the whole story of creation is riotiously funny- as is the whole story of Jesus- any such man in todays world would be locked up as a delusional schizophrenic- so you're the son of god right- hm Im sure you are- how about some more drugs

 

[En Vind Av Sorg]

@chromatose- http://www.rathergood.com/gaybar

 

[lizard]

you guys are all fucked up...everyone knows that the beginning of life as we know it was created when the first globs of primordial ooze lit up a marijuana spliff and began aspiring to greater things.

it's really very simple.

 

[Chromatose]

@chromatose- http://www.rathergood.com/gaybar

hahahahah!!

fantastic

 

[Lillitu]

Hahahahahaha. Okay, you guys are b3ta addicts, aren't you?

 

[PlatypusJesus]

"The last thing I will say- is it is clear that God is dead- the scriptures are so thouroughly out of touch with the mankind of today- it is ridiculous- the whole story of creation is riotiously funny- as is the whole story of Jesus- any such man in todays world would be locked up as a delusional schizophrenic- so you're the son of god right- hm Im sure you are- how about some more drugs"
And that is why I look at the bible as symbolic of human life and human nature, and not literally. For example, god represents a tyrannical king, who makes all of his brainwashed "followers" worship him and only him, or he punishes them severely. Of course, he is also a hypocrite, because he makes them be "good little peasents" while he is an evil sadistic bastard. He makes them believe that he created them, and that he is all knowing and forgiving, the sick, twisted, egotisitical, power-hungry glutton. Then, he rapes a poor defenseless young virgin, who is forced to bear his child, who is then later murdered because of his father (ok, other elements were involved, but he was part of it). Oh, and let's not forgot the rebel. One person begins to think for himself, and figures out just how evil and tyrannical his king is, so he begins to reveal it to others and show them the light. Of course, one of the king's brainwashed minions tells him about this rebel, so he quickly places him in a hell hole, before the truth can spread any further. Of course, he disguises the truth, and makes it seem as if the rebel was evil. He convinces everyone that not believing in him is evil, and that if anyone does so, they shall go where the rebel did.

 

[Chromatose]

of course, the bible is great as a tool to be taken symbolically, but literally?? thats just foolish, IMO.

though (most of) the new testament (and some of the old) can be sorted through and used as a historical reference

 

[ledmag]

If atheist and agnostic mean the same thing.
Why are they two different words?
They are!
atheist says there is no God/god.
An atheist says he is god.
An agnostic doesn't know because he hasen't been given enough proof.

Take care!
Ill be back in a few days

An atheist says he is god? Hmm. WOuld that make an athiest a SATANIST?

 

[ledmag]

Fezilla>>I haev the word of mouth story on adam and eve and creation. If you would like it, we could make arangments....PM me if you will.

I go for evolution by the way. Even though all the fact arent there. With the creation theory, well, its too old, and was written/spoken by heathens.

I respect that you believe in God. I have myself in the past, and im sure i will again.....but you can show ZERO proof of a God. I believe Jesus existed, but did he do all that stuff? Probably not. I wasnt there, nor were you, nor anyone else alive today. And as you said above, God is not show anyone his face.

On another note, Man has made god like man. Its weird, its a sin to covet, greed, kill, etc. God covets...he covets our souls....god is geedy...he wants us all....God kills, ppl die for nothing everything. ETc etc etc.....and all these rules were supposedly handed down to god, just after a burning tree spoke. WHats even funnier, only one guy/heathen saw the tree burning. And millions of ppl just take the word of some heathen who lived thousands of yrs ago.

I understand why you believe in God. You were probably taught/scared shitless as a child that if you werent good you would go to hell. You were scared shitless that God would get you. In a weird way, God is a montser. He is used to scare kids and adults a like.

On anotehr note....God loves us all emensly(spel). I love my wife, i couldnt imagine how much i would love a child if i had one. I would do whatever it tkaes to keep her safe, and out of harms way. Well, if we are all Gods children, shouldnt he love us enought to just take us all to heaven in the end, and haev no war, etc.?. No hell to even worry about. DO you give your children a choice to be good? No. You tell them what to do, and a good parent then makes damn sure the child does it. If there is a God, and he does in fact love us as the bible says it why do we haev this stupid choice? No answer can be given that will add up. (note i said bible, since if God did tell someone he loved them, that someone is now dead)

WHy would teh whole world still be punished over the adam and eve scandle? WHy would it take the sacrifice of gods own son to bring the world into forgiveness...?

Most of these are stupid questions which will probably briong stupid answers.


I tried to be as cordial as i could with this reply. DO not make a war out of it. Cause thats not my intemtion at all.

 

[PlatypusJesus]

"of course, the bible is great as a tool to be taken symbolically, but literally?? thats just foolish, IMO."
Yes it is, yes it is.

 

[Chromatose]

and yet there's that large percentage that will do nothing but accept it all word for word without thinking, ughh, how sad.