Faith ?

[Korlich]

If God does not exist then there is no way that Satan could.

That´s a false premise, Satan could just as well exist on his own as God or Santa or a unicorn...You are saying if the bible or koran or torah etc. is wrong about one thing (God) they are wrong about everything (Incl. Satan). Conversely if they are right about God they are right about everything, but obviously these religions (theories) could just as well only be right about one thing (Satan) and wrong about everything else. In fact most theories only explains parts of reality cos a theory that explains everything, in general explains nothing.

 

[Reelo]

That´s a false premise, Satan could just as well exist on his own as God or Santa or a unicorn...You are saying if the bible or koran or torah etc. is wrong about one thing (God) they are wrong about everything (Incl. Satan). Conversely if they are right about God they are right about everything, but obviously these religions (theories) could just as well only be right about one thing (Satan) and wrong about everything else. In fact most theories only explains parts of reality cos a theory that explains everything, in general explains nothing.

I'm afraid it is you who are mistaken, my young aprentice, about a great many things! (Always wanted to say that line)
The very definition of Satan is that he's the great Adversary, the opposite of something. If he existed and God did not, he would not be Satan, but God.

 

[Korlich]

Well as I see it Satan is evil, the opposite of good, but good doesn´t have to include God. Good could be what mankind is born with and evil (murder, suicide etc.) is when people are possesed by Satan. I don´t believe this but a person could just as well believe in this as in one of the three world religions.

 

[Korlich]

In fact you could be a darwinist and explain anormalies that only apply to human behaviour deliberate murder (of your own species for other things than survivel) suicide etc. as the work of Satan.

 

[Reelo]

Well as I see it Satan is evil, the opposite of good, but good doesn´t have to include God. Good could be what mankind is born with and evil (murder, suicide etc.) is when people are possesed by Satan. I don´t believe this but a person could just as well believe in this as in one of the three world religions.

Sure, but let me state it again, this wouldn't be Satan, it would just be the concept of an evil God.

 

[Korlich]

God refers to a creator. If Satan was God he would create humans inherently evil, that´s not what I said. What I said was Satan being Satan without God.

 

[Nasty-Fire]

Satan could exist without God... guys... it's just beliefs ! Everything is about "COULD" and "IF", in the end it makes no sense and we can't prove anything.

 

[Korlich]

My point is simply that one thing might be true, ie. to try to "love thy neighbour" (humanity), that concept makes logically and emotionally sense to me but that´s just about all that rings true from religion imo (sadly most religions practice this poorly, except the cathloic preasts who practice it a little too well, haha).

 

[hexwind]

My point is simply that one thing might be true, ie. to try to "love thy neighbour" (humanity), that concept makes logically and emotionally sense to me but that´s just about all that rings true from religion imo (sadly most religions practice this poorly, except the cathloic preasts who practice it a little too well, haha).

This makes me feel as you are an ignorant of the other religions

 

[de_aztec]

hahaha

 

[Korlich]

What I mean is historically there been a lot of holy wars, I don´t mean to say individual believers cannot live by this creed if they choose to.

 

[Resonator]

You know, I get it now, Nasty Fire. I KNOW tht I know what I'm talking about, but it's mixed in with SO much confusion and illusion, it's coming out like such. My mind will wander mid sentence and I'll write something else.

I noticed my posts don't have much of a connection to each other. But one thing IS clear; These posts are perfect backdrops to your own learning. Just like the raggedy ann piece of literature that is the bible was MY backdrop for learning, use this as your own.

To put it one way, you're participating in an evolution of the mind

 

[Nasty-Fire]

Yeah and I find it very interesting. However, I don't want to learn from what appears to me as "anything". I don't want to read the Bible or any books like this. The only thing I would like to read is something that shows and explains some facets of life that you wouldn't imagine by yourself; other than that, I don't need a book to dictate what I should think and believe, I can largely do it by myself. And I'm very glad that the ones who are not able to do so go into religion; at least they don't act like complete idiots since religion brings some good morals.

I'm also glad that you noticed that many of us didn't understand. I personally use the "sudoku" method in my thinkings; I don't take anything for granted and I don't "put numbers" before I'm absolutely sure of them, because otherwise, it will lead to erroneous results, maybe not yet, but later for sure. It's sure easier to just "feel" something and claim theories, but you must be able to understand each steps of your reasonings, Resonator, and the best way to test yourself is to teach it to somebody else. That's a challenge for you.

 

[BloodSword]

hehe, I'm not even saying I'm right either. I have to agree, it's mankind's doing. But a lot of it is done in the name of God(s), too! I don't want to twist this debate into a political one, but if God exists, and he holds people accountable for their good and evil deeds, believer or no, then surely someone like G.W. Bush will not end up in Heaven, just because he believes in God and that he's doing his will. The deaths and suffering he is, in the very end, responsible for not only across certain parts of the world, but among the very people he governed should earn him a nice warm place in the pit. Along with others, of course...
As I'm saying, not twisting this into a political discussion, but I hope (at least I hope so) that believing in God and thinking of doing His will is not a free ticket to do whatever you think is good...

"a lot of it is done in the name of God" you said it right there man, Ill add to the beginning of that statement mankind has.....................in the "NAME"of God. Still, how could it be God's fault for Bush's inadequacies? I agree, I don't want to confuse an already confusing issue with politics. Thank you for your mature banter, O wise one!!I always wanted to say that.

 

[Antyman]

Yeah and I find it very interesting. However, I don't want to learn from what appears to me as "anything". I don't want to read the Bible or any books like this. The only thing I would like to read is something that shows and explains some facets of life that you wouldn't imagine by yourself; other than that, I don't need a book to dictate what I should think and believe, I can largely do it by myself. And I'm very glad that the ones who are not able to do so go into religion; at least they don't act like complete idiots since religion brings some good morals.

I'm also glad that you noticed that many of us didn't understand. I personally use the "sudoku" method in my thinkings; I don't take anything for granted and I don't "put numbers" before I'm absolutely sure of them, because otherwise, it will lead to erroneous results, maybe not yet, but later for sure. It's sure easier to just "feel" something and claim theories, but you must be able to understand each steps of your reasonings, Resonator, and the best way to test yourself is to teach it to somebody else. That's a challenge for you.

so you are the opposite of Sören Kierkegard? You should read something by him, he created the existentalism (not sure if it's like that in english).
He's meaning that you should always choose anything, as fast as you can, cause you can either choose, or let it be, and letting it be will lead you nowhere. He says that whenever he choses, he take for granted that it will lead to something negative, but rather take one negative step forward and keep on moving as fast as possible before you die, than to stay at your spot, carrying your burdens.

I've been told I suck at explaining, and it gets worse when I try to do it in english. but I'm a big fan of Kierkegard.

 

[Nasty-Fire]

Well I know about existentialism though I don't agree with it. I don't think I am the opposite of the man you named. I don't agree with the fact that plunging into the unknown is necesserly always positive or negative. If you are a big fan then I wish you could explain it better and with more details.

And I don't see exactly why you rely it to me. It's not because I try to be sure of my reasonings that I cannot makes choices impulsivly. However, if you choose to believe in something without really thinking about it, and seriously start believing in it, I guess there's a problem and that you're being "blind". Also, the fact that your man believes in his theory makes his theory less relevant, don't you think? (Yes, it was a joke, a poor one)

But I have questions... what if you choose to let it be? And is Kierkegard really at the origin of existentialism?

 

[Antyman]

^ I just tried to melt it in in this thread. And I did it damn neat.
I'm not a big fan of him, I just think he's damn right. impulsiv.. ism.. ftw!

 

[Nasty-Fire]

Not me.. I would be in jail otherwise.

 

[Reelo]

"a lot of it is done in the name of God" you said it right there man, Ill add to the beginning of that statement mankind has.....................in the "NAME"of God. Still, how could it be God's fault for Bush's inadequacies? I agree, I don't want to confuse an already confusing issue with politics. Thank you for your mature banter, O wise one!!I always wanted to say that.

It's not God's fault. I was merely pointing out that condemning evil deeds done in the name of God and retaliating with equally evil deeds in the name of another God is not very smart. Especially since both "Gods" are actually the same entity, but with different cults sourrounding them. Both are despicable and should be punished by the respective divinities accordingly....

 

[BloodSword]

It's not God's fault. I was merely pointing out that condemning evil deeds done in the name of God and retaliating with equally evil deeds in the name of another God is not very smart. Especially since both "Gods" are actually the same entity, but with different cults sourrounding them. Both are despicable and should be punished by the respective divinities accordingly....

Thank you for clarity.Here's another interesting topic. I've read, I think it was in the book called "Urantia" that Hitler, who is in the bowells of hell, could step up into ascending realms of existence until he finally would achieve the divinity and acceptance of Christ. This according to Urantia followers, would take aeons of repentance. And in this dimension of reality thousands or millions of years is basically a drop in the proverbial bucket. I don't actually believe this, but who knows man. That being said, I think it's time I burn one end to end. Peace.