Faith ?

[HemeHaci]

yah but the post i was replying to was implying that the bible has remained historically strong you nonce

ooh, stepped on your toe, kid?

 

[i aint play this]

eark

 

[dwoakee]

something must drive a belief, something like a fact or experience. ... A belief should be backed.

First of all, it should not contradict any facts or experiences. Then it should make sense on its own. Having it backed by facts and experiences is definitely an advantage.

Faith is something that should only exist in trusting relationships, or based upon solid evidence, as Resonator has said.

I don't see the difference between faith and belief in this context. Both cannot be based upon solid evidence because by definition they come into play where solid evidence is lacking.

 

[de_aztec]

The Big Bang theory is not fact, it is merely the best scientific explanation to date, and based on previous calculations. If relativity is wrong, then partially so is the Big Bang theory. It requires a degree of faith.

I have faith my gf takes her pill everyday. I've seen her do it, she suggested she start taking it, I was with her when she bought it. I don't have evidence she takes it everyday, but I have faith that she does, based on previous events (don't ask) and that we hold the same ideals about pregnancy. This faith is based on something. It is not evidence itself.

 

[Don Corleone]

" With faith alone, we have blind error erupting from people caught in the act. "

how does that sound to you as "faith is bullshit"? he merely expressed that it should be backed up with knowledge. anyway, i do not want to drag the argument to what you read and how you interpreted it and the whatnot. it's pointless.

 

[Don Corleone]

I have faith my gf takes her pill everyday. I've seen her do it, she suggested she start taking it, I was with her when she bought it. I don't have evidence she takes it everyday, but I have faith that she does, based on previous events (don't ask) and that we hold the same ideals about pregnancy. This faith is based on something. It is not evidence itself.

one of the reasons i have faith that a Creator exists is the miracle of life itself. im sure many of you have heard of this argument:

the second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of a system which is not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time and reach its maximum at equilibrium. meaning: everything in the universe tends to fall into disorder. however, somehow, of all the least probabilities, an amazingly rich, harmonious thing called life on earth formed out of the blue. i feel deep within me that this belongs to a Creator. now, the counter-argument stated for this in many places (and especially in Richard Dawkins' "blind watchmaker") is that while this occurance is a very small probability, it is still a probability in an enormous universe of endless possibilities...which just took place.

now, this is where we must draw the line. i respect anyone who feels this is just a random happening, while i expect the same respect for thinking otherwise. do not fall into the mistake of pigeonholing every believer as a dumb, blind religious fanatic. i have spent a lot of time expanding my knowledge on religion and still do. and if i feel, at a certain period in my life, that religion is not answering my questions, i will stop believing and seek the truth elsewhere.

 

[derbeder]

see, haci, this is what i was talking about. people think as if islam has a policy on what to do with semitism or infidelity.

and who came up with a policy, may i ask? show me a place in the koran where it says what to do.

on the contrary, the koran says at multiple times that belief is directly related to one's conscience and everyone should be left free in their decisions.

The early surahs on the Qu'ran, Al-Baqara, Al-Imran and Al-Ma'idah in particular, contain many references to Jews and Christians. Being the People of the Book, they receive some consolation according to:

2:62 Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

However, there are also very clear statements calling Jews the greediest of mankind (2.96), liars etc. As for Christians, they should drop their belief in immaculate conception and the trinity, for otherwise:
5:72 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.
5:73 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.

There are also some verses which state how Muslims should treat Jews and Christians, for instance:
5:51 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

 

[Savern]

^ Perfect example of how confusing and contradictory holy texts can be and why so many different interpretations exist.

 

[Nasty-Fire]

The percentage of atheists and agnostics is decreasing everyday. Please, God, help us!

...interestings facts above.

 

[Resonator]

2:62 Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

They don't grieve because death does not fall upon them. Or rather, death is discarded in that sense. These people know what it takes to be one of the Living.

However, there are also very clear statements calling Jews the greediest of mankind (2.96), liars etc. As for Christians, they should drop their belief in immaculate conception and the trinity, for otherwise:
5:72 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.
5:73 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.

There are also some verses which state how Muslims should treat Jews and Christians, for instance:
5:51 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

Lots of interesting quotes from the Qu'ran. Maybe now I understand why it's growing so quickly.

But do you?

how does that sound to you as "faith is bullshit"? he merely expressed that it should be backed up with knowledge. anyway, i do not want to drag the argument to what you read and how you interpreted it and the whatnot. it's pointless.

I didn't say it SHOULD be backed up with knowledge. I was saying it is a consequence of the nature we live in that it WILL happen naturally and anomalous, so should you take blind faith KNOWING knowledge will come to you.

The Big Bang theory is not fact, it is merely the best scientific explanation to date, and based on previous calculations. If relativity is wrong, then partially so is the Big Bang theory. It requires a degree of faith.

There are 2 people who agree with the big bang theory: Scientists, and Gnostics. Figure that out

I have faith my gf takes her pill everyday. I've seen her do it, she suggested she start taking it, I was with her when she bought it. I don't have evidence she takes it everyday, but I have faith that she does, based on previous events (don't ask) and that we hold the same ideals about pregnancy. This faith is based on something. It is not evidence itself.

Interestingly enough, you have a good sense of judgment. I like it, if you are sure then you are sure, and for all intents and purposes it IS a fact for you

by definition they come into play where solid evidence is lacking.

Well, not necessarily true. You don't have faith that you breathe? That you digest? Sure, you know these things happen, but how do YOU know the apparatus' are working properly? You've been told, lucky enough someone took a look and figured out the mechanics of the lung or stomach, but how much do you know about things you truly have faith in?

If there is a God then the world itself is God.

I wouldn't say that, because the Earth is a part of nature, one of the elements. Since God does not exist in nature, he exists above nature.

But we're forgetting that God is divided into 7 forms to rule over 7 forms of thought. We have:

Child
Desire
Power
Heart
Focus
Projection
Completion

Within these 7 categories we can break down the fundamental components to thought, or at least, the IDEAL thought. These are forms of a thing called Reason, the basis for the motivation leading to action. A thought can have any one of these attached reasons, and likewise they will drive your life in a certain way when you adhere to them. When you adhere to all of them, you blend into harmony with reason as the thoughts are complete.

When they are not MADE to be complete, they are predictable thoughts, and hence, not free will. God is a united being among these 7 thoughts, and much in the same sense, we are united among each other and who we are. Some WOULD say "We are entering the 5th dimension", but are they really telling a lie?

The 5th item on that list is Focus. But one thing to remember is that it's not normally considered focus, but thought itself. I use the term focus to represent what it truly means the most. So as some of us enter the 5th, moving away from the 4th, it's like growing in stages. Our thoughts will naturally evolve along this path.

I see myself at the 6th stage. Where would you say your thoughts tend to be most dominant and frequent?

Every day, it's saturday night...And I can't wait for sunday morniiiin'!...

im not sure if everyone here is reading the other person's post before writing. are you sure that resonator said faith is bullshit? honestly sorry, i missed have missed it.

anyways, im surprised that anyone actually takes what he says seriously.

A christians faith is bullshit. A muslims faith is bullshit. Anything that requires blind faith is not of the fruit of truth, that much is clear. They embrace a measurement of darkness rather than a measurement of substance.

Faith is pretty much following something without reason or empyrical evidence.

BINGO!

This Resonator guy, is he too intelligent for us to understand or does he mainly lack common sense to see what is so clearly at hand. Treating earth wind water and fire like that? They are simple compounds of different elements.. Why don't superconductors affect you that much? :S

These are ALSO elements appearing in nature. It is not that wind, fire, earth, and water exist beyond nature, but the 4 elements look most like these things.

Reason and religion are two diff. entities, reason is about logic and facts whereas religion´s about feelings (faith).

Hey, there ya go! But if only the two were blended together somehow...Would that be something that tickles your fancy?

^^ Completely true, also don´t forget in no christian country do they stone ppl to death for being homosexuals (thankfully) but it clearly says in the bible its a mortal sin. Another example is a story from the old testament where two sisters get their father drunk and have sex with him cos there´s no other men around, but in most christian societies that´s illegal today.

Sounds like love to me, chap-o. Would you be embarassed if you did the same, or would you grow some balls and say "Yeah, I did it, big deal,"?

Oh wait. Misjudged opinions matter

So for now I find it more enthusing to worship a rainbow striped toucan currently orbiting pluto whilst singing "freebird" and giving himself anal pleasure with that dildo he stole from your mother

If it makes you happy, then do what you want. No God required

Hopefully no God REQUIRED ever in your life. Y'hear?

 

[Jester-Race]

I believe that there is a pink unicorn in my garage, other people believe that it exists without seeing it as well because he will save everyone from the world he created for their own despair, who wouldn't want to believe in my pink unicorn???

Sound logical? Of course not. It's religion.

Imagine if you were born in a different country instead of the one you currently live at. Do you think your religion would be the same? It's probable, but not likely. The foundation of religion from a human perspective is one based off of simple belief, and hope that something will happen in return for nothing. Quit believing in this nonsense and the day you do you'll end up being free from yourself.

 

[BloodSword]

No I'm not Arasmas wtf. Why are you saying that, because we have the same views? Many people in this world share this belief (or lack of belief, whatever.)

Putting religion aside, faith is bullshit, as Resonator has said. Faith is pretty much following something without reason or empyrical evidence.

We could yap about this topic forever and still go round and round. I attest that this is just too deep for mere humans to fully understand. Humans have debated this topic for as long as we stood up and started to walk straight. Faith is NOT bullshit. Faith is one of the best virtues a human can have. Before you sit down in a chair, you have "faith" that it will support you, but how do you really know? When you wake every morning, you have "faith" that there is oxygen to breathe to sustain you. How do you know it's there? you can't see it. Faith is listening to your "inner" voice and having the courage to put your "belief or faith" into something. In this case, one's personal God. If you have difficulties, as we all do in this life, no matter what the issue is, I am able to find a solution in the Bible. It may not be what I want to hear, but if followed, it has always been accurate and correct. Certainly, may not be something I want to do, but the same holds true. Why is that so difficult to comprehend? And more important, why are people who don't agree attacking others for one's personal beliefs. Those who do that are part of the problem, not the solution for the condition of this world. Stand up, be men, not whiny little crybabies. And you will experience a positive change in your lives. We are all blessed with "free will." you have the ability to make your own choices. It couldn't be any other way. For those who have the courage to lay their lives down for Jesus Christ, I'll see you in the next world.

 

[Antyman]

can't someone type something with fewer words? so I get the patience to read something.

I post awesome preach in this thread to:
http://www.kyriou.net/filer/a_call_to_anguish_wilkerson_20021015.mp3
Just cause I can. David Wilkerson for new age-Jesus!!

The best piece of audio ever existed!
it would beat a guitarbattle between Dimebag and Blackmore, with Åkerfeldt on harmonica, making sounds beyond this world!

there we have the world's most famous preacher claiming that:
You should not be happy when thinking of God (YOU MUST CRY AND THINK OF AGONY!),
Christianity is the only true religion,
Everyone who once watched "Sopranos" will go to hell, along with their family,
To clean your soul, you should cry for 4 days!

this is not my oppinion, I'm just saying.

 

[Korlich]

^ Sounds like a lot of fun, I might change my religious viewpoints

 

[fizz6207]

ooh, stepped on your toe, kid?

no actually i just find it quite bemusing when dimwits cant follow a simple linear conversation

 

[fizz6207]

It's probable, but not likely.

lol

jimmy carr comes to mind

"people tell me, 'scientology, oh thats just a made up religion...' and i say 'uh huh - as opposed to what?' "

 

[Lateralus14]

I don't know why people feel the need to bring up the Big Bang theory...it being true or false does not prove or disprove any religion. As I said in the other thread, even Christianity uses myths to explain the origins of our planet because no one actually knows said origins for fact. Even if the Big Bang theory was proved true without a doubt, one could easily say God caused said "Big Bang;" it's completely irrelevant in an argument of theism vs. atheism really.

 

[de_aztec]

We could yap about this topic forever and still go round and round. I attest that this is just too deep for mere humans to fully understand. Humans have debated this topic for as long as we stood up and started to walk straight. Faith is NOT bullshit. Faith is one of the best virtues a human can have. Before you sit down in a chair, you have "faith" that it will support you, but how do you really know? When you wake every morning, you have "faith" that there is oxygen to breathe to sustain you. How do you know it's there? you can't see it. Faith is listening to your "inner" voice and having the courage to put your "belief or faith" into something. In this case, one's personal God. If you have difficulties, as we all do in this life, no matter what the issue is, I am able to find a solution in the Bible. It may not be what I want to hear, but if followed, it has always been accurate and correct. Certainly, may not be something I want to do, but the same holds true. Why is that so difficult to comprehend? And more important, why are people who don't agree attacking others for one's personal beliefs. Those who do that are part of the problem, not the solution for the condition of this world. Stand up, be men, not whiny little crybabies. And you will experience a positive change in your lives. We are all blessed with "free will." you have the ability to make your own choices. It couldn't be any other way. For those who have the courage to lay their lives down for Jesus Christ, I'll see you in the next world.

Are you seriously comparing the faith in breathing oxygen everyday to a faith in a God? Breathing is an involuntary muscular response, it happens EVEN if there is no oxygen in the atmosphere. It's not a matter of faith, it's a biological response. There is no faith required.

On the other hand, you don't involuntarily believe in God. It's not something that happens without your knowledge and supervision. It's not critical to our survival.

 

[de_aztec]

I don't know why people feel the need to bring up the Big Bang theory...it being true or false does not prove or disprove any religion. As I said in the other thread, even Christianity uses myths to explain the origins of our planet because no one actually knows said origins for fact. Even if the Big Bang theory was proved true without a doubt, one could easily say God caused said "Big Bang;" it's completely irrelevant in an argument of theism vs. atheism really.

Another cop-out. The creation story is a myth now? It wasn't in the past. It seems very easy to have all these stories and then claim they were myths, parables or hyperboles after they get scientifically contradicted.

If there really was a god, he would explain to his people just how the Earth was created, not this 'faith' bullshit. Giving the true explanation to your followers and then letting them eventually prove it true with science is a great way to attract followers. Being ambigious and using myth and metaphors leads me to logically assume that it's all bullshit, there is no God and someone just made it up.

 

[Lateralus14]

Another cop-out. The creation story is a myth now? It wasn't in the past. It seems very easy to have all these stories and then claim they were myths, parables or hyperboles after they get scientifically contradicted.

If there really was a god, he would explain to his people just how the Earth was created, not this 'faith' bullshit. Giving the true explanation to your followers and then letting them eventually prove it true with science is a great way to attract followers. Being ambigious and using myth and metaphors leads me to logically assume that it's all bullshit, there is no God and someone just made it up.

Um, no, it's always been a myth, you just wouldn't think so when you run into insane fundamentalist Christians who take everything literally. Every religion (hell, every decent sized group of people period) has their idiots - don't judge based on that..

I'm sorry you have no appreciation for metaphors and myths - the world must be terribly black and white for you.