Faith ?

[Nasty-Fire]

^ I don't think you are perceiving this "God" the right way.

So! Am I the only one here who is now seeing Resonator as a totally fucked up person!? I mean, seriously, I am quite sure right now that he read a book and found it so intelligent that he's just trying to instruct of with what it was told inside of it. The only thing that bothers me with it, is that he says many think and take them as granted, without any logical explanations. Seriously, you could have seen my "WTF?" when I was reading what he wrote.

But I would like to comment, so maybe I could get some answer. I know I will have a hard time finding the right questions... so there we go.

There are 2 people who agree with the big bang theory: Scientists, and Gnostics. Figure that out

As Lateralus said and tried to prove, you could just believe in the big bang theory and God at the same time, since God could be at the origin of the Big Bang. And let me remind you that these people represent a bunch of people, and many of them (scientists) are considered in a somewhat "high class" of the society.

I wouldn't say that, because the Earth is a part of nature, one of the elements. Since God does not exist in nature, he exists above nature.

Can you be more precise? Yes, Earth is a part of nature, but it's nothing particular and is by no mean meant to be one of the four most important elements in the universe. Come on.

But we're forgetting that God is divided into 7 forms to rule over 7 forms of thought. We have:

Haha! How come!? "we're forgetting"... like if it was an evidence, like if everyone knew about that.

Child
Desire
Power
Heart
Focus
Projection
Completion

Explain each of them, because actually, it sounds like total bullshit. First of all, what is god, and why is he divided this way, and what are each of these divisions, etc. What book did you read, godamn fuck!?

Within these 7 categories we can break down the fundamental components to thought, or at least, the IDEAL thought. These are forms of a thing called Reason, the basis for the motivation leading to action. A thought can have any one of these attached reasons, and likewise they will drive your life in a certain way when you adhere to them. When you adhere to all of them, you blend into harmony with reason as the thoughts are complete.

Why? Why? Why? Omfg! And are you an idealist? Tell it right now before I go any further! Good for you if all this makes you feel better, but omfg.

When they are not MADE to be complete, they are predictable thoughts, and hence, not free will. God is a united being among these 7 thoughts, and much in the same sense, we are united among each other and who we are. Some WOULD say "We are entering the 5th dimension", but are they really telling a lie?

Are they telling a lie? I don't know, who knows? And what the damn link with "dimensions" ?! I really don't understand you "reasoning" (irony?) nor your definition of what's a dimension. I mean, it's easy to explain things and take 80% as what you say for granted, but it won't convince anyone. If it's complicated, it's your job to explain, and right now, it seems pretty fucking complicated because I don't understand a shit.

The 5th item on that list is Focus. But one thing to remember is that it's not normally considered focus, but thought itself. I use the term focus to represent what it truly means the most. So as some of us enter the 5th, moving away from the 4th, it's like growing in stages. Our thoughts will naturally evolve along this path.

Huh?! So we're on a trip between dimensions? Damn. So rubbish.

I see myself at the 6th stage. Where would you say your thoughts tend to be most dominant and frequent?

Don't be so modest. I just see myself at the -43rd stage if I base myself on all what you said.

A christians faith is bullshit. A muslims faith is bullshit. Anything that requires blind faith is not of the fruit of truth, that much is clear. They embrace a measurement of darkness rather than a measurement of substance.

I have a blind faith that you have a blind faith in a book; it must be a book otherwise you are just psycho/schizo. Don't kill me! "Measurement of darknesse".. !

These are ALSO elements appearing in nature. It is not that wind, fire, earth, and water exist beyond nature, but the 4 elements look most like these things.

How do you know, you've seen them? What are they, then? I'm about to commit suicide.

I won't say that all you believe in is wrong, because I don't think so. I just don't see how better than religion it can be, I personally think it's even worse. But I don't care, go ahead and get yourself interned in an insane asylium.

 

[Lateralus14]

Ya, that post made me go wtf too...

 

[de_aztec]

Maybe hes talking about elements such as hydrogen? The elements that make up the 'wind fire and water' elements?

 

[Jester-Race]

Just something to think about for those of you who follow religion:

The idea that any one of our religions represents the infallible word
of the One True God requires an encyclopedic ignorance of history,
mythology, and art even to be entertained—as the beliefs, rituals,
and iconography of each of our religions attest to centuries of crosspollination
among them. Whatever their imagined source, the doctrines
of modern religions are no more tenable than those which, for
lack of adherents, were cast upon the scrap heap of mythology millennia
ago; for there is no more evidence to justify a belief in the literal
existence of Yahweh and Satan than there was to keep Zeus
perched upon his mountain throne or Poseidon churning the seas. -Sam Harris

 

[biggsy]

Um, no, it's always been a myth, you just wouldn't think so when you run into insane fundamentalist Christians who take everything literally. Every religion (hell, every decent sized group of people period) has their idiots - don't judge based on that..

Before Darwin it was not a myth

 

[Don Corleone]

i personally think resonator is just fooling with us all...he being on the 6th stage and all haha. i found that post quite laughable. =)
he has a cheap imitation of a crowley-esque philosophy. not that crowley wasnt laughable either.

and yes, there are few verses in the Quran that have caused a lot of debate. in one surah (Surah Al Mumtahana - 60/8):

"It must be clarified that Allah Almighty does not stop you from showing open kindness. You have to deal fairly and justly with all who, on account of your Deen, have neither waged war against you nor expelled you from your dwellings. As has been said before (5:8), justice will also be done to whoever wages war against you, because Allah Almighty likes those who are just and fair. (Thus, over and above being just, you should be cordial with those who have not waged war against you)."

and in a few other surahs which i cant remember at the moment, even marriage with a person from another religion has been allowed.

and in the surah (Al-Ma'idah - a surah during the time of Madinah) derbeder mentioned, the warning has a historical significance and should be considered in context. the warning states that whoever establishes an alliance with them actually belongs to them. this refers to the fact that some muslims maintained an alliance with them protesting that they feared a change of fortune. the Muslims are warned against maintaining an alliance with those who mock their faith. there is a clear reference to the fact that the madinah jews mocked the muslims' prayers, making a jest of it.

but of course, when read on its own, it looks as if it contradicts with quran's other verses which advise love and peace and tolerance towards other religions. bear in mind that many verses in the quran refer to events, traditions that took place in the past, around 500 a.d.

 

[affinityband]

this thread is beautiful

 

[HemeHaci]

and in a few other surahs which i cant remember at the moment, even marriage with a person from another religion has been allowed.

Aslında o konuda herhangi bir kesinlik belirten sure yok.. Imamlar Kuran, sünnete ve kıssas ile değişik şekillerde içitihad etmişler. Mesela Imam Azam Ebu Hanife gayri müslim ile evliliğe cevaz vermiş fakat Imam Şafiî bu konuda daha değişik görüş belirtmiş, zira evlendiğin kişinin kesinlikle müslüman olması şarttır. En sahih ve bilinen hadis olan "Ameller niyetlere göredir."den yola çıkınca sana daha yakın istediğin, Islam'ın batıl olmayan (gelen framelerine uyan) herhangi bir mezhebine tabii olabirlisin.

Kimsenin bu konuyu anlayacığını düşünmediğimden Türkçe yazdım.

 

[hexwind]

^ I didn't get it dude !! could you explain it better? and in English please

 

[Korlich]

"Hey, there ya go! But if only the two were blended together somehow...Would that be something that tickles your fancy?"

The answer is no. Here´s why: every time you view the world with an emotional backpack your vision will be clouded you will not seek objective facts, but facts that support your world view, In stead of ridegdly trying to falsify your own hypothesis, you´ll seek confirmation. Remember today there are religious institutions already doing this. A good scientist is one striving for objectiveness and that is best achieved with an open mind. Of course if a non-religious person could somehow prove a religion to be right, then fine, but thats the problem with religion its unprovable and unfalsible which makes it irrelevant to science.

 

[Reelo]

i personally think resonator is just fooling with us all...he being on the 6th stage and all haha. i found that post quite laughable. =)
he has a cheap imitation of a crowley-esque philosophy. not that crowley wasnt laughable either.

and yes, there are few verses in the Quran that have caused a lot of debate. in one surah (Surah Al Mumtahana - 60/8):

"It must be clarified that Allah Almighty does not stop you from showing open kindness. You have to deal fairly and justly with all who, on account of your Deen, have neither waged war against you nor expelled you from your dwellings. As has been said before (5:8), justice will also be done to whoever wages war against you, because Allah Almighty likes those who are just and fair. (Thus, over and above being just, you should be cordial with those who have not waged war against you)."

and in a few other surahs which i cant remember at the moment, even marriage with a person from another religion has been allowed.

and in the surah (Al-Ma'idah - a surah during the time of Madinah) derbeder mentioned, the warning has a historical significance and should be considered in context. the warning states that whoever establishes an alliance with them actually belongs to them. this refers to the fact that some muslims maintained an alliance with them protesting that they feared a change of fortune. the Muslims are warned against maintaining an alliance with those who mock their faith. there is a clear reference to the fact that the madinah jews mocked the muslims' prayers, making a jest of it.

but of course, when read on its own, it looks as if it contradicts with quran's other verses which advise love and peace and tolerance towards other religions. bear in mind that many verses in the quran refer to events, traditions that took place in the past, around 500 a.d.

Actually, parts of the contradictory views in the Qur'an come from the fact that the Suras were revealed to Muhammad over a prolonged period of time. In the beginning, his views towards Jews and Christians were favourable, because he considered himself to be in-line with the other 2 monotheistic religions. Even when he moved from Mekka to Yathrib (Medina) it was to settle disputes between Clans there, some of which were jewish. He managed to unite the clans of Medina under his "rulership" but the Jews would not yield their faith in favour of Islam. Gradually, Muhammad came to resent that, and this is reflected in the Qur'an where in later Suras, the Jews are considered ungrateful backstabbers, and the Qibla (direction of prayer) was changed from Jerusalem to the Kaaba in Mekka (which had originally be a heathen temple)

Christians and Jews in the view of muslims are a good deal better than polytheists like Hindus or other "heathen" religions, but the fact that they're so close to Islam (being themselves prophetic, monotheistic religions based on scripture) yet not willing to make the leap and consider Muhammad the final prophet, makes things so bitter.

I once read the following statement:

The problem with the 3 big religions is that each one of them has exactly ONE fundamental principle that the other 2 cannot accept:

-Jews view themselves as God's chosen people, and they take a sort of pride in it, wanting to set themselves apart from others. Both Christians and Muslims do not accept that.
-Christians view Jesus as the Messiah, son of God, yet still part of the Holy Trinity. Jews and Muslims (while accepting that Jesus was a prophet) reject this.
-Muslims believe that the Qur'an itself is the work of God, not of man, and that it is eternal, and only "revealed" to mankind through Muhammad. Jews and Christians (whose scriptures, while being Holy, are still the works of men) do not agree.

 

[Antyman]

Opeth fans are highly educated in religion it seems, which is awesome, since I'm studying religions myself. This thread is my main source of information and opinions.

 

[Don Corleone]

good summary, reelo, spot on.

here is my personal take on the topic: im a muslim who tries to live his life with virtue (and im sure, if i were born somewhere else other than turkey, where religion is not heard of, i would still be a person with faith in a Creator. this is just to say that such a belief is directly related to my own conscience.) but dont take it that i abide by all that is written in the Quran (for instance, im a person who likes alcohol - but i can very easily understand why it had to be called a "sin" by religion). there are verses which i feel are outdated and which i have a hard time advocating to non-believers (im sure many christians and jews feel the same about their books). this is because i believe some parts of the holy scripture pertain to, exclusively, the times they were written. (for instance, all books mention slavery, does this mean that slavery should exist today? or say, that surah about not befriending jews and christians...i have had MANY jewish and christian friends all my life whom i had great fun with and who have helped me in hard times. im working and doing business with people from other religions, too.) other than that, there are many beautiful verses which command/suggest all kinds of good virtue and bring comfort and ease to the person. those are the parts which i feel are perennial, universal and should be stressed all the time.

if you are a person of humanist nature with great virtues and are fine with not believing anything, you are perfectly fine with me. i defend your right for respect from all believers to the fullest. but i expect you give the same to those who feel in a higher power or some kind of divine justice.

 

[HemeHaci]

^^^Pointing out those three things were nice. I mean constructive also in the sense of conversation.

But as far as I know, both Bible and Torah are God's words that are passed to us by the prophets Moses and Jesus, then over the years many alterations are applied. Thus in fact those three religions have that common. In fact each successor religion recognises the previous one but the earlier ones do not accept. The history of these religions make me strongly believe that this is indeed God's doing, sending "mainstream" religions after they are not original in similar styles. (the concept mainstream is said because according to Islam each and every tribe, community in this world was informed of God's existence through prophets but most are long forgotten and changed over time. (However these later three religions, especially Islam being the final and the universal, targeted at larger audiences.)This in fact have its place in Qur'an too, God himself promises that the Qur'an will keep its original shape forever) Also you can go and search some old mythologies, like Manas an old Turkish myth tells about creation, and it is striking to note the similarities the myth and mainstream holy religions. So this leads me, let me repeat again, indeed God has informed us all about it, but the change to religions may have been extreme in some religions and less in others.

 

[Don Corleone]

Aslında o konuda herhangi bir kesinlik belirten sure yok.. Imamlar Kuran, sünnete ve kıssas ile değişik şekillerde içitihad etmişler. Mesela Imam Azam Ebu Hanife gayri müslim ile evliliğe cevaz vermiş fakat Imam Şafiî bu konuda daha değişik görüş belirtmiş, zira evlendiğin kişinin kesinlikle müslüman olması şarttır. En sahih ve bilinen hadis olan "Ameller niyetlere göredir."den yola çıkınca sana daha yakın istediğin, Islam'ın batıl olmayan (gelen framelerine uyan) herhangi bir mezhebine tabii olabirlisin.

Kimsenin bu konuyu anlayacığını düşünmediğimden Türkçe yazdım.

keşke türkçe yazsaydın haci, bence tartışılacak güzel bir konuydu. dinim hakkındaki dürüst fikrimi bir önceki mesajda görebilirsin.

 

[HemeHaci]

^Türkçem çok mu kusurlu?

 

[Arasmas]

lol @ no jews on the forum

 

[Don Corleone]

^Türkçem çok mu kusurlu?

pardon, keşke ingilizce yazsaydın diycektim =)
estağfurullah

 

[hexwind]

lol @ no jews on the forum

Yeah ! Although there are few guys from Israel.. but apparently they aren't belivers.

 

[Nasty-Fire]

Alright guys, could you just talk FUCKING English; I do not feel like going on Google Traduction right now and I'm ready to bet that this forum has rules about language.

...so! 1/5 people here believe in Christ.