Finally heard AGALLOCH
- Thread starter Jasonic
- Start date
hmm ... can't really say anything about this as I got into your band mostly from this last release. Heard TPHD and selected tracks from your earlier releases but slower doomy contemplative music is not my cup of tea most of the time.
I liked how you stormed out of the gate with this much more ballsier sounding disc ... it kind of sounds like a birth ... like a more "fuckitall" record ... which is what metal is really about ... it is all about attitude ... PERIOD!
ahh ... and this is probably why whiney Agalloch really irks me
... don't worry, you are still my fave :zombie:
circus_brimstone
Forest: Sold Out
S<issors
wins.
- Jan 16, 2007
- 1,809
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Yeah, it's tough- playing the sort of music that you do, you're neccesarily going to be compared to such underground giants as Opeth, Katatonia, etc, which might cause you to be overlooked. Also, since you're relatively obscure, people are probably not going to just randomly stumble on your music; they'll get into you *through* stuff like Opeth and Katatonia, so that comparison will always be in mind. I know I initially heard of the band because my friends know I'm into Opeth; my introduction to Novembers Doom was essentially "hey dude these guys sound kinda like that other band you like!" 'tis unfortunate.
That said, I'm personally quite fond of your slower, doomier style. I've been exposed to stuff like Sabbath (obviously...) and Candlemass in the past, but I never dug Ozzy all that much and Messiah Marcolin's voice got on my nerves, so I'm grateful to have something atmospheric and heavy that doesn't make me chuckle under my breath. Fills a good nice in my collection.
So, yeah, those're my thoughts on that subject. I would also dare to say that you've been improving over the course of your releases, if that's any encouragement.
I dig it!
NvmbrsDoom5
Member
Well I think we are starting to overcome some of the negative shit that's been thrown at us over the years, and finally stepping out from the dark shadow we've been in for a while, and for that I'm grateful.
AnTz0r
Crimson King
well i must say i felt the same about you. i liked the pale haunt departure, and it was okay, played it a few times when i first heard about it, and then once every few weeks or so. the material is quite "straight-forward" compared to a band like agalloch. i would never say Novembers Doom aren't original, but obviously the way you are original, it's not as obvious as in a band like agalloch.
just again to be clear, i don't want to be insultive. i don't think, nor ever did, that you are un-original, i just think upon first listen it just doesn't show as much as compared to a band like agalloch. that way upon first listen, they will "scare off" a lot of people who are just not into that, whereas with ND they might keep listening but don't really feel a passion for the material because they don't fully understand it yet. still, you're way ahead of plenty of other bands
and i'm sorry to say that yes, for me it changed when i first saw you live in helmond. it was kickass, and because of that i started looking more into the lyrics and stuff, and then i got hooked.
NvmbrsDoom5
Member
AnTz0r
Crimson King
yes of course i like them... not unconditionally though, they have their strong points and weak points, like any band. afaic, they are not the holy grail of music or anything like that
and also their originalty goes only to a certain point. i mean, it's not like they invented something completely new. once you listen closely you will see plenty of copy in their music too - ulver all over the place in some songs actually i am getting a mindflash right now, not sure if i will support it in the future: might one say, that upon repeated listenings, ones perception of agalloch's originality will diminish, and ND's, upon closer inspection, will increase? at first ND records don't sound extremely special or anything, but the more i listen the less i feel they sound like other bands. yes, you may consider that a compliment
anyway, my previous post was just to seek an explanation why agalloch seems to produce less "in-the-middle"-fans than ND.
and also their originalty goes only to a certain point. i mean, it's not like they invented something completely new. once you listen closely you will see plenty of copy in their music too - ulver all over the place in some songs
actually i am getting a mindflash right now, not sure if i will support it in the future: might one say, that upon repeated listenings, ones perception of agalloch's originality will diminish, and ND's, upon closer inspection, will increase? at first ND records don't sound extremely special or anything, but the more i listen the less i feel they sound like other bands. yes, you may consider that a compliment anyway, my previous post was just to seek an explanation why agalloch seems to produce less "in-the-middle"-fans than ND.
i see absolutely nothing original about Agalloch and have been listening to "music" for about 23 years ... and I mean all kinds from Slick Rick to Decapitated.
I understand how they "speak" to certain people on a deeper level, but for me music needs to kick my ass and be an escape from stressful days ... not suck me into a more contemplative downer mood.
just my cinco pesos
I understand how they "speak" to certain people on a deeper level, but for me music needs to kick my ass and be an escape from stressful days ... not suck me into a more contemplative downer mood.
just my cinco pesos
IntoPhagist
FloriiiiiiiooooooOOO!
beast from the east
Member
Just OK?!?!?!?!?!
How DARE they!!!!!! tee heeIMHO, you guys are WAY more than "just OK". Not a day goes by that I don't listen to some ND. The music you guys put out means one hell of a lot to me, and you improve with each effort. Maybe your music isn't the most technical out there, and maybe some people get hung up on that????? That's just stupid, because music is more about feeling and emotion than the technicality of the playing, and your art has TONS of emotion!!!
NvmbrsDoom5
Member
Technicality can be important. Originality can be important. But ultimately those things aren't necessarily all important enough for me to enjoy listening to a band alot, or consider them a favorite.
We're not in competition with Agalloch, and they're not in competition with us either, so I don't want things to get misconstrued as being about that at all. Matter of fact, we're not in "competition" with anyone out there, we just do what we do and concentrate on that. It's the other people- fans, critics, etc.- who do all the comparing and debating about who is more original, who ranks higher or lower, and so forth. I have great respect for bands like Opeth, Katatonia, Paradise Lost, My Dying Bride, Agalloch, etc. I would even to a certain degree consider myself a fan of most of those bands. I just don't understand why it is that some people seem to feel that the world is not big enough for all of those bands and ND to all coexist within their cd collection. None of the bands I mentioned, including us, are that derivative or overly similar to one another, that it would be unnecessary to listen to one in favor of the other. Sure people can have their particular faves, we all do. I guess my point here is that I hear alot of people discussing us, or other bands, and they talk about how the band sounds like this band or that band, and how this band is more technical than that band, or how this band started before that band, etc etc.....and my question to them is "OK but what about the songs? what about the music? Did you, or can you, just listen to the music and enjoy it for what it is, without having to always compare and contrast it with everything else out there?" ND never set out to be the most original band or to start trends or break new ground. We simply write songs that we like to play and are the kind of music that we ourselves would like to hear, that's it. I know there's millions of choices of music to listen to these days and so it might require people to pick and choose more than ever, but I just feel too often that people don't just open up and give alot of music out there a fair, open-minded listening experience anymore.
Your brains are bigger than you think. It is possible for you to accept and enjoy plenty of bands out there, and even if certain ones are not as unique or technical or whatever as others, you should hopefully still be able to just sit back and enjoy it for what all it is, and not what it isn't.
I want to make clear that this is not a slam against any of you here....I'm only speaking generally about what I've seen and encountered from people in general over the years. So before anyone gets offended or defensive towards me, it was not directed at anyone here in particular, alright? Cool.
Alright I'm done.
We're not in competition with Agalloch, and they're not in competition with us either, so I don't want things to get misconstrued as being about that at all. Matter of fact, we're not in "competition" with anyone out there, we just do what we do and concentrate on that. It's the other people- fans, critics, etc.- who do all the comparing and debating about who is more original, who ranks higher or lower, and so forth. I have great respect for bands like Opeth, Katatonia, Paradise Lost, My Dying Bride, Agalloch, etc. I would even to a certain degree consider myself a fan of most of those bands. I just don't understand why it is that some people seem to feel that the world is not big enough for all of those bands and ND to all coexist within their cd collection. None of the bands I mentioned, including us, are that derivative or overly similar to one another, that it would be unnecessary to listen to one in favor of the other. Sure people can have their particular faves, we all do. I guess my point here is that I hear alot of people discussing us, or other bands, and they talk about how the band sounds like this band or that band, and how this band is more technical than that band, or how this band started before that band, etc etc.....and my question to them is "OK but what about the songs? what about the music? Did you, or can you, just listen to the music and enjoy it for what it is, without having to always compare and contrast it with everything else out there?" ND never set out to be the most original band or to start trends or break new ground. We simply write songs that we like to play and are the kind of music that we ourselves would like to hear, that's it. I know there's millions of choices of music to listen to these days and so it might require people to pick and choose more than ever, but I just feel too often that people don't just open up and give alot of music out there a fair, open-minded listening experience anymore.
Your brains are bigger than you think. It is possible for you to accept and enjoy plenty of bands out there, and even if certain ones are not as unique or technical or whatever as others, you should hopefully still be able to just sit back and enjoy it for what all it is, and not what it isn't.
I want to make clear that this is not a slam against any of you here....I'm only speaking generally about what I've seen and encountered from people in general over the years. So before anyone gets offended or defensive towards me, it was not directed at anyone here in particular, alright? Cool.
Alright I'm done.
AnTz0r
Crimson King
I can agree with all of that Larry.
It wasn't my intention to start a pissing contest, I only set out to find an explanation for what Paul said earlier.
I think comparing Agalloch musically with ND is useless anyway, I mean in the way you can compare Megadeth and Metallica and say, Metallica is better! Besides, I really dig your music, I am here right?
It wasn't my intention to start a pissing contest, I only set out to find an explanation for what Paul said earlier.
I think comparing Agalloch musically with ND is useless anyway, I mean in the way you can compare Megadeth and Metallica and say, Metallica is better! Besides, I really dig your music, I am here right?
NvmbrsDoom5
Member
No pissing contest. As I stated in my rant, this wasn't directed at anyone here, the comments in the thread merely set me off to express my feelings regarding the subject of people's tendencies to overly compare/contrast bands instead of just focusing on them singularly. Wasn't directed at you or other board members in particular here.
S<issors
wins.
- Jan 16, 2007
- 1,809
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Exactly.
Also, there's nothing wrong with comparing/criticizing stuff (makes for fun conversation!), but that shouldn't prevent you from enjoying it. I went through a phase with movies where I became so overly critical of technique and such that it was hard to actually have fun watching them anymore, and that's no good. Same deal with music.
Agreed ... I also feel that there are a lot of people out there who pass judgement on music from a musicians point of view, analyzing everything in a band/song.
I never played an instrument in my life nor did I aspire to, so I just go with what grabs me by the balls or talks to my soul in some way.
I like bands that feel like they are sincere and make music from the gut rather that their head ...
NvmbrsDoom5
Member
Usually when I try to write music from my head, so to speak, it's the worst stuff I come up with! lol Something like "Rain" or "Autumn Reflection" for example, are songs that kinda came out of me without really even thinking about it. They felt good to my hands and my ears as I started to conceive them. Especially with a song like "Rain", when we first played it together we were kinda like "wow, this is different, I dunno...." but in the end we just enjoyed playing it so much we decided "why shouldn't we do this? We're having fun!"
There's nothing wrong with acknowledging music's tecnicality, and sure sometimes it is fun to analyze and compare, etc. But I just feel like more and more I see people spending too much time comparing and always having this "versus" mentality. "Opeth vs. ND", "Katatonia vs. Opeth", etc. Like this is all a big fucking competition, and honestly in the case of us and most of these bands, it's not. We're all just doing what we love and hoping that people will have enough capacity and interest to give us all a fair chance.
There's nothing wrong with acknowledging music's tecnicality, and sure sometimes it is fun to analyze and compare, etc. But I just feel like more and more I see people spending too much time comparing and always having this "versus" mentality. "Opeth vs. ND", "Katatonia vs. Opeth", etc. Like this is all a big fucking competition, and honestly in the case of us and most of these bands, it's not. We're all just doing what we love and hoping that people will have enough capacity and interest to give us all a fair chance.
Novembers Paul
Member
We've played with a few bands with that "competition" mentality, and it's always bands who are struggling to become more known. We do see this quite a bit actually, since we're not at the same level as some of our peers, but we're well known enough, and sell enough where we are considered one of the bigger bands in our respected genre. I think it's normal for a band to fight for their rank, but once you reach a certain tier, and you're out of the "basement" the competition disappears and your energy is now focused on the business side of things.
Chicago was INFAMOUS for bands in competition with each other. We had 2 major groups of people, who would support each other, and shared the same fans, and never support the other side. We as a band, chose to stay out of that, and we decided to focus our attention on Europe, and other areas, while the local bands fought for the local title. I believe it's one of the reasons the Chicago metal scene collapsed in the 90's, and all the great bands we had went away. Too much petty competition, and not enough focus.
Chicago was INFAMOUS for bands in competition with each other. We had 2 major groups of people, who would support each other, and shared the same fans, and never support the other side. We as a band, chose to stay out of that, and we decided to focus our attention on Europe, and other areas, while the local bands fought for the local title. I believe it's one of the reasons the Chicago metal scene collapsed in the 90's, and all the great bands we had went away. Too much petty competition, and not enough focus.
