France Bans Burka/Niqab

[jipchen]

I need to check my Koran at home to make sure, but I am pretty certain it does not say anything about women wearing burkas.

Of course not, but it's the same with the bible. I believe it says you shouldn't cover in expensive robes and now take a good long look at the local pastor, every bishop, the whole vatican and the pope.
It has become a religious symbol.. so it doesn't really matter what the Koran says. Just like the bible. Christians also only follow the four lines they like

 

[Skinny Viking]

As for women covering up in public I think it is great because then social workers can't see their bruises.

and you thought that was black eye makeup they were wearing under there!

 

[John_C]

So there's a problem.......
solution:
punish the victims and stamp on the symptoms

WIN!

edit: another thought. The woman who are sufficiently controlled by their men to be forced to wear the burka, what's the betting that they now just aren't allowed outside?

 

[midget donkeys]

I find all this very interesting actually. The very generous socialist style benefits of many west European countries can not be maintained in the future without adding a large number of new workers. Birth rates of well developed countries are too low. So cheap immigrant labor is migrated in through legal and illegal means.

A clash of cultures is inevitable. The original citizens of a host country are angered by the lowering of wages caused by the new cheap labor and slow/nonexistent assimilation of the immigrants. They also fear becoming a minority in their own country.

The immigrants are discouraged from assimilating because of misconceptions they had of western values before they moved to their new country. Or because of discrimination they face from the natives.

Sounds like a recipe for interesting times.

 

[26]

Of course not, but it's the same with the bible. I believe it says you shouldn't cover in expensive robes and now take a good long look at the local pastor, every bishop, the whole vatican and the pope.
It has become a religious symbol.. so it doesn't really matter what the Koran says. Just like the bible. Christians also only follow the four lines they like

the original purpose/sense of a burka is to prevent women from "looks".
and that basically tells how the koran works.

 

[Rhys Llewellyn]

France certainly has some balls to do this.

I think the first thing that comes to everyone's mind now is "they're gonna get terrorised pretty soon". Nice one Islam. I don't like ANY religions and they all have their nuts but Islam certainly takes the cake in recent times.

If I ever came to power I wouldn't ban them, but I would definitely point out the fact that like it or not, the Western world is mostly Christian and that the Islamic countries have little to no tolerance of our faith (or in my case and many others, atheist beliefs). You can wear what you want, unless it means special treatment or breaches a security risk.

I would have absolutely NO special requests for any religious faith and I would ban halal meat purely because it's fucking sick, barbaric and absolutely unnecessary. More animal welfare and less bowing down to some evil cunt that doesn't even exist.

If you don't like it... Well go live somewhere else where you don't get free health care, free money and a house.

 

[jipchen]

the original purpose/sense of a burka is to prevent women from "looks".
and that basically tells how the koran works.

Well thanks for explaining but I knew that.
But as someone already said there's no part in the Koran saying explicitly "wear a burka/niqab". Actually there is only one part saying the women of the prophet (!) should cover parts of their head when they go out. Not a single other part says anything about forcing women to wear burkas etc.

So it shows more how some muslim men work, not the koran or the religion itself. They're interpreting things.. just like any religion. For example in Afghanistan, the Taliban forced women to wear the burka, it was pretty much unusual to wear it before that.

Not defending the koran / the muslim religion but it's just not as sample as condemning a piece of cloth. What really pisses me off are stupid christians hating on islam because it's so backwards etc when they're just not any better. The koran, much like the bible is interpreted by greedy, sexistic, power-craving bastards and it's too easy to label a whole religion (or in this case an article of clothing) as bad.

EDIT: And quite honestly, the burka is just the other extreme to the "western" dresscode for chicks. They're basically 95% naked all the time, I mean wtf? And only those being 99,999% naked are labelled as sluts. Something wrong there, too imho. I am not so sure what says more about the self-esteem of a woman: covering completely or being basically naked.

..brb, looking at the tits and asses thread

 

[LeSedna]

I'm in France, and I think the idea is well accepted here overall.

It's a pretty simple thing, actually : In a laic country, you are not allowed to wear a religious sign in a public place, end of story. Even if it's not written in the koran, the burqa is, a way or another.

There shouldn't even be a need to make a specific rule about burqa/niqab but the rules are now clear.

That's end of story and I'm glad my country did that. In my opinion it has nothing to do with "the country controls what clothes we wear".

About the Telegraph article : "Muhammad the Agony Uncle advises: “There should be no imitation of the Kuffar (non-believers) because 'whosoever imitates a nation is amongst them’.” " --> if he does not like the culture which gives them a house, he can get the fuck out of UK

 

[LeSedna]

What if covering your face was some part of metal culture? We'd all be up in arms going on about personal freedoms.

This is not the same, it's not a religious sign. Unless Metal ends considered a religion

(BTW, there are tangible reasons of interdiction of covering one's face : during a strike for example this is prohibited here because it prevents from being recognized by the police in case of illegal acts during the strike)

 

[MindMunch]

People should dress (or not dress) the way they feel like.

 

[midget donkeys]

jipchen I prefer the ladies 95% naked.

 

[jipchen]

^ Well if I had to choose between 0% and 95% I'd also take the latter. Still, for girlfriend material I'd prefer to set the "fully covered / naked"-knob to 50% wet.
Actually never met a witty chick with nice character and slutty looks. But yeah, that's another story, haha

 

[John_C]

This is not the same, it's not a religious sign. Unless Metal ends considered a religion

(BTW, there are tangible reasons of interdiction of covering one's face : during a strike for example this is prohibited here because it prevents from being recognized by the police in case of illegal acts during the strike)

Why does it matter if it's religious or just cultural?

yes there are legitimate security reasons, but lets be honest those aren't the motivation behind this

 

[LeSedna]

Why does it matter if it's religious or just cultural?

yes there are legitimate security reasons, but lets be honest those aren't the motivation behind this

I was talking about security reasons just as a "by the way", since it only applies in particular moments (driving, or in strike as an example). I wasn't saying it's one of the reasons against burqa generally speaking.

To answer your comment : in my republican (normal, state, free) school, anybody wearing even just a necklace showing the christian cross was asked to hide it or remove it or it would lead to a sanction.

Republic is laic, if you are "french" (in this case) you follow the rules of the french republic. As simple as that.

It's a BIG matter, it means "keep religion for when you're at home, just for yourself". It separates it from everything else in a country.

You can do many things, you can dress in pink or in furry or wear a black metal corpsepaint or everything, but not a religious ostentatory sign (this theorically includes reversed cross or pentagram some kids like to wear).

The first day it was applied, there were a strike of a few religious women in Paris, they said to the interviewer "we wanna honor our religion everywhere, it's our way to live". They have just not understood the principle of laicity and they clearly said it was their "religious" way of living and they wanted to keep it.

I don't see what is wrong with that.

 

[Jaymz]

Sorry im abit late into this guys but...

 

[Morgan C]

Not really sure what to think of this.. I'm against religion in general, but wearing these things isn't really hurting anyone, and isn't the root of the problem (although, out of sight, out of mind, 'tada, we've fixed it!'). All we need now is some super fashion designer to make burkas the 'in' thing this season, then France will be kicking herself!

i really do see that these women have been brainwashed.

Had a good laugh at this.

 

[El_Gato]

+1 on France's balls.

What's more fair? To get a beat (or worse) for not wearing it on a some muslim countries or to get a fine in France for wearing it? What's more civilized?

And I'm taking into account wearing this is a male (so religious or viceversa) aggression and control towards the women, so "doing nothing" is being a silent witness of their oppression.

 

[JeffTD]

This is stupid.

How can anyone believe that their country supports religious freedom when they're not allowed to wear religious symbols outside of their home? I don't care if your country is hyper-secular or not - what France has done here is anti-religious and anti-religious freedom, despite the fact that the laws were passed for completely different reasons than "preserving the secular nature of the public spere" or whatever slant they're putting on it to not sound racist or ethnocentric.

 

[El_Gato]

This is stupid.

How can anyone believe that their country supports religious freedom when they're not allowed to wear religious symbols outside of their home? I don't care if your country is hyper-secular or not - what France has done here is anti-religious and anti-religious freedom, despite the fact that the laws were passed for completely different reasons than "preserving the secular nature of the public spere" or whatever slant they're putting on it to not sound racist or ethnocentric.

Thanks for the stupid part, very kind of you, fucktard.

Genital removing (only for women of course) or whatever is called is a religious and cultural practice too and IT IS banned, in my country and yours. Are you gonna tell me you're pro-freedom of religious practices now?

 

[JeffTD]

Thanks for the stupid part, very kind of you, fucktard.

Genital removing (only for women of course) or whatever is called is a religious and cultural practice too and IT IS banned, in my country and yours. Are you gonna tell me you're pro-freedom of religious practices now?

I was saying that, the argument was stupid, not that France is, great job jumping, to conclusions, though!

That comparison is ridiculous and you know it. The burqa, cross, kippah/yarmulke, etc etc etc are all optional, purely aesthetic displays of religion.

Cutting a girls clitoris out against her will is comparable how?

And yes, I am by all means pro-religious freedom. If some piece of legislature in my country was introduced and attempted to outlaw the wearing of a pentagram, cross, star of David, whatever, I'd fight it tooth and nail despite the fact that I am in no way, shape, or form adherent to any religion.