TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
mutantllama
Active Member
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
i dont think there's anything special about here tbh. A very average, plane jane looking woman with disgustingly horrendous feet.
no country for old wainds
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the specifics of the politics aren't really the problem for me besides it being too obvious how you're supposed to respond to each scene, and it generally preaching to the choir too much. it's more that i feel peele doesn't have the skill to actually embed his ideas into convincing drama. it's all very engineered, and i think the film's failings and inconsistencies are ignored more than usual just because people vibe with the politics. i mean, the writing and characterisation are so strained from the outset; kaluuya is good but his relationship with allison williams' character resembles nothing that has ever existed between actual humans. you might argue that's because the whites are intentional caricatures, but either way it's an obstacle to investment, which is a problem for a film like this. i don't remotely identify with the white characters or recognise myself or people i know in them, which means i feel like i stand above the scope of its satire, i don't feel uncomfortable or attacked so much as superior to the assholes onscreen. satire doesn't work if it lets you off that easy. i don't think horror does either. it'd be much more interesting and powerful if those characters were a) more initially relatable and b) more insidiously shitty rather than degenerating into generic horror-movie-evil.
i don't think the horror and satire mesh properly here in any case, it never seems sure whether to commit to one or the other. the tone is all over the place, from caleb landry jones' ludicrous performance, to the more generic horror in the third act, to the kooky sidekick comic relief which has been defended by some writers as having a conceptual purpose but... well, that's kind of my point, if you're gonna sacrifice investment to communicate ideas you may as well construct a thesis instead of a movie. some of the more self-consciously important scenes made my eyes roll into the back of my skull as well--the police car gotcha scene always stands out when i think back on it, so contrived and pleased with its headclunkingly obvious reversal of traditional expectations. the last act is pretty weak in general IMO, it's been a while but i think that did the most to sour me on the film.
i do really like a few of the horror scenes, i.e. the running and the crying have stuck with me. i think the movie in general is best when it's quiet and communicating through images, which is always a promising sign for a director. i'll be finally watching us before the 2019 deadline and i'm hopeful he moves further in that direction.
Vegard Pompey
ALLY TO GOOD, NIGHTMARE TO YOU
Vegard Pompey
ALLY TO GOOD, NIGHTMARE TO YOU
I don' t know that anyone loves Get Out because they identify with the patronizing whites - they love it because they identify with Kaluuya's character. It might not be incisive satire by your standards, but it's a very effective film at empathizing with minorities (and not necessarily just racial minorities - I imagine just about any cultural transplant would find it relatable.) The situations in the film are exaggerated and predicated on caricature, but draw on a vast pool of shared experiences that aren't represented in cinema that often.
Sounds like Peele's Get Out is guilty of many of the things some have said Phillips' Joker is guilty of. Probably worth considering that both come from comedy and not necessarily artistic or highbrow comedy either, and they're both trying their best to express ideas and create projects in the tradition of more skilled directors and writers they look up to. They gave us Keanu and The Hangover films, be realistic here.
Einherjar86
Active Member
And then of course there's ambiguous relationship between satire and comedy. Get Out is a satire, but satire isn't necessarily comic. That being the case, I think Get Out is generically ambiguous.
I think no country's right that the primary relationship in the film is rather unbelievable: Kaluuya's character is too suspicious, and Williams's too performatively concerned, to make much sense (unless he's only with her because she's hot). For me, that doesn't make or break the film; the off-kilter feel of the relationship reinforces the overall uncanny quality.
I think no country's right that the primary relationship in the film is rather unbelievable: Kaluuya's character is too suspicious, and Williams's too performatively concerned, to make much sense (unless he's only with her because she's hot). For me, that doesn't make or break the film; the off-kilter feel of the relationship reinforces the overall uncanny quality.
no country for old wainds
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i appreciate it's more than just satire, but regarding that satire my suggestion was the opposite, that so many white people love get out because they don't identify with the unrealistic whites, and therefore rather than feeling targeted they're patting themselves on the back for not being like those other types of white people. that's a fairly typical criticism of award-winning films about race and this is hardly one of the more egregious examples, but still. the purpose of satire as i see it is to make the targets of that satire feel uncomfortable and question their own worldviews, it fails if it just leaves you feeling superior to those targets.
in terms of how the movie plays with black audiences, i'm not really qualified to say but i'd assume you're right that it's refreshing to be represented in this way in the mainstream, and that's fair enough. i recognise that my subjective experience wouldn't necessarily factor that in so much, for obvious reasons. i do think it's probably impossible to get black experiences into the mainstream without pandering to whites to a certain extent--those are thoughts i've had while watching 12 years a slave or certain spike lee movies as well. i haven't seen that many films that seem truly representative of black culture, but the ones i have seen (i.e. some charles burnett stuff) would not move the box office needle that's for sure.
i still don't think it's a very authentic depiction of any experience, personally, and i wish i believed in the interactions enough to empathise with kaluuya to the extent other people did. i was just too aware of the writer behind it at all times, seeing the strings was a constant obstacle for me. i think the best versions of this kinda thing would just feel rooted in those experiences rather than being so aggressively about that experience at all times.
i see where you're coming from but i think joker is the opposite for me, in that i like the execution, more or less, but i don't think it's invested in its own subtext beyond how it serves the mood of whatever scene he's currently shooting. it's more of an exercise in style and atmosphere than actual content, the more political stuff seems incidental to the character study and kinda confused if you try to take it as a whole. get out on the other hand has plenty to say, and is much more ambitious and more promising for future projects, but i just didn't feel much of it.
challenge_everything
Active Member
I suspect you are going to be monumentally disappointed by Us then. It was a massive step back from Get Out imo.
Well that's true, Joker is above all else a loveletter to Hollywood new wave cinema. I was actually quite shocked by how vintage the opening moments of Joker actually were. That said, I think it's worth pointing out that quite the opposite of your comments on Get Out about how its supposed targets of criticism seem to love the film, Joker seems to have at least succeeded in pissing off certain segments of society, particularly finger-wagging liberals who don't like being reminded that in the class struggle they're as much the enemy as the cliche conservative corporatists so often made to sit in for the devil of every tale.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Maybe it's just that fucking good.Still need to watch it...
1. Get Out (hands down)
2. Blade Runner 2049 (I'm a fan of Villeneuve's sterilized hyper-corporate vision, juxtaposed with environmental collapse)
3. The Endless (excellent low-budget Lovecraftian meta-horror)
4. It Comes At Night (whatever "it" is...)
5. First Reformed
6. Logan (blades down)
7. John Wick: Chapter 2 (the weakest of the trilogy, but still awesome)
8. Star Wars: The Last Jedi (I know a lot of people despised this; I think it's sheer brilliance)
9. Thor: Ragnarok (Tessa Thompson can kick my ass any day)
10. The Killing of a Sacred Deer (deliciously weird)
There are several from 2017 I still need to watch, including Phantom Thread, Super Dark Times, and The Florida Project. Also, really want to see this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_Has_Her_House
I'm updated my list to include First Reformed (new list quoted above). Based on what I read back at the beginning of the thread, we're allowing it for 2017? If not, I can revert back to my original list.
no country for old wainds
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i personally didn't list it 'cause i already listed it for 2018 and it was on the collective 2018 list.
Same, I counted it as 2018. It did 5 festivals in 2017 but wasn't available to the general public (as well as majority of festivals it did) until 2018.
That said it's completely up to you if you list it here, I won't exclude it in the tally.
That said it's completely up to you if you list it here, I won't exclude it in the tally.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Ah, okay then--I'll move it, I didn't realize the 2018 thread's still ongoing. I'd rather my vote count toward its possible inclusion in the top ten, if that's where most people will be voting for it. Sorry for the confusion. You can revert back to my original list for my 2017 votes.
Einherjar86
Active Member
