Hails & Horns
- Thread starter Novembers Paul
- Start date
- Status
Jasonic
Doom On!
Ok, I have been thinking about this a bit the past couple of days, esp since I review CDs on occasion.
From my perspective, a good reviewer needs to keep the readers of the said publication in mind.
For example, if I was a reviewer for more of a mainstream metal publication (IE - Revolver, Kerrang, Metal Edge, etc), I could see possibly using the MDB / OPETH reference, as there would be a better chance that the majority of the readers would be hearing about Novembers Doom for the first time. Furthermore, they may not be terribly familiar with underground death/doom, dark metal, etc.
I think though for more of a true underground rag, like Hails & Horns, Metal Maniacs, Terrorizer, etc (even though those zines can be found in major outlets), the need for cheap generalizations would be less necessary. The majority readership should be familiar enough with the genre to accurately describe the music without having to use the old, "take older Opeth and add Aaron from MDB vox, etc"
To sum up, I guess my point is you need to consider the target audience. Furthermore, this post is not generally directed at the content of Ryan's review. My issue, as others have said, was the lack of professionalism contained within. As I said previously, that rag should fire their editor.
From my perspective, a good reviewer needs to keep the readers of the said publication in mind.
For example, if I was a reviewer for more of a mainstream metal publication (IE - Revolver, Kerrang, Metal Edge, etc), I could see possibly using the MDB / OPETH reference, as there would be a better chance that the majority of the readers would be hearing about Novembers Doom for the first time. Furthermore, they may not be terribly familiar with underground death/doom, dark metal, etc.
I think though for more of a true underground rag, like Hails & Horns, Metal Maniacs, Terrorizer, etc (even though those zines can be found in major outlets), the need for cheap generalizations would be less necessary. The majority readership should be familiar enough with the genre to accurately describe the music without having to use the old, "take older Opeth and add Aaron from MDB vox, etc"
To sum up, I guess my point is you need to consider the target audience. Furthermore, this post is not generally directed at the content of Ryan's review. My issue, as others have said, was the lack of professionalism contained within. As I said previously, that rag should fire their editor.
BrandonS
Member
- Apr 5, 2003
- 2,668
- 2
- 38
To be 100% honest, I don't even care about reviews anymore... They're good for publicity, for getting the name out there, but the actual content of a review doesn't matter at all. Does anyone honestly trust anyone who writes a review? You may agree with a guy 90% of the time but as soon as he makes a statement that is different from your own beliefs, you just brush him off. That's why I believe illegal music downloading is good and not bad. If I listened to reviews, I would barely buy anything ever. 
I'll download a CD, and love it so much that I'm like "Woah, I have to have this for the future and have the artworks!" Otherwise I'll delete it... I even delete the promotional copies I have a right to have on my iPod after I'm done with them....
I'm still working on Maelstrom and Lunar Hypnosis (new job), but I haven't reviewed in a heck of a long time. I've got to whip something up or folks will be pissed! Peace.
I'll download a CD, and love it so much that I'm like "Woah, I have to have this for the future and have the artworks!" Otherwise I'll delete it... I even delete the promotional copies I have a right to have on my iPod after I'm done with them....
I'm still working on Maelstrom and Lunar Hypnosis (new job), but I haven't reviewed in a heck of a long time. I've got to whip something up or folks will be pissed! Peace.
NvmbrsDoom5
Member
Illegal music downloading is good, in theory, if people were honest and fair about it. I know tons of people who don't buy a single cd anymore, because it's just too simple and easy to steal it online. I know some who practice what you do, using the downloading method as a means of testing the waters to see what's worth purchasing. But far more seem to be stealing the stuff and that's that. People should be able to listen to 30 or 60 second clips of every song on a cd to make the judgement on whether it's purchase-worthy. To listen to an album in its entirety for a month before making up your mind....I'm sorry but that's just not really fair, and that's not how business works. But anyhow, this is all a bit off-topic for this thread so I'll leave it at that.
There are plenty of people out there who very much do read reviews and put stock in what they have to say. If not then people like Mr. Bartek wouldn't waste their time, frankly. I don't personally put too much stock in reviews or bother with them because most of the time they tend to be poorly written and just negative. I'm far more interested in reading reviews of cds where the writer says "Here is a cd that truly appeals to me and here's why....", etc. I'm much more likely to check out something that's gotten a positive recommendation, than to avoid the cds that get poorly reviewed.
There are plenty of people out there who very much do read reviews and put stock in what they have to say. If not then people like Mr. Bartek wouldn't waste their time, frankly. I don't personally put too much stock in reviews or bother with them because most of the time they tend to be poorly written and just negative. I'm far more interested in reading reviews of cds where the writer says "Here is a cd that truly appeals to me and here's why....", etc. I'm much more likely to check out something that's gotten a positive recommendation, than to avoid the cds that get poorly reviewed.
AnTz0r
Crimson King
i dont know... sometimes a cd takes some more listening to get used to. often cd's that i end up liking best i considered only a mediocre listen to me (ie "i dont like it", not "it's not good")
if i would only have listened 30 seconds clips, or listened to a cd only once to "test" it, i probably would never have gotten into extreme metal or progressive music in the first place. moontower, eos, novembers doom, agalloch, ulver... i can draw up a really big list of music that i really didn't like the first time, but now really do. but i suppose you are right, people do need to support music you are right. it just sucks that we only have these limited options... the music industry really needs some new business models.
NvmbrsDoom5
Member
Well the thing is, the options are far better now than they ever were in the past. When I was a kid growing up, I didn't have the internet to peruse websites, Myspace pages, Amazon.com, etc. and listen to samples or even hear up to several full length songs from a cd for free. Between our website, our Myspace page, The End Records' website, and mail order places like Amazon and their ilk, you can not only sample songs, but obtain (legally) entire songs from our discography. All without having to leave your house, or the comfort of your chair for that matter. We have internet radio, with tons of different metal themed stations or shows running 7 days a week, in which we can be exposed to thousands of different artists. And not to mention, with iTunes and stuff like that, you can now buy one song, or four songs, or whatever, from a cd....you don't even have to buy the whole fucking album anymore, you can pick and choose what songs you want to purchase!! Honestly man, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but my opinion is that we have it pretty goddamn good these days.
Sure we'd all love to be able to own an album and listen to it fully and repeatedly before making the choice of whether to actually purchase it. But think about if all businesses operated that way......going to a restaurant and eating a full meal, and then deciding on whether or not you thought it was good enough to pay for it. Or picking up a 2008 Lexus and driving it around for a month or so at no cost, just to decide afterwards that you don't "love it enough" to actually pay for it. That's just not how business functions and survives. The average joe just has no clue how much money it costs to be in a band these days, between the cost of gear, gas, rent, other travel expenses, flyers, 'zine ads, vehicle, cd manufacturing, merch, so on and so forth.....if people don't support the band by buying the cds, then it gets very very hard. Even saying "Well I support them by going to see them play" is not good enough, because often we get a very paltry amount of the money made at shows (venues and promoters tending to take the large cut, most times), and the fact that many venues and promoters won't book a band's tour if they have poor cd sales. It all goes around, it's all connected. Y'know there've been enough times that I bought a cd and wound up not liking it much later on, or it didn't click with me or whatever, and that's a shame, but that's just how it goes. Like I said earlier, nowadays with there being so many options for legally getting tastes of a band's music before buying, there's just no really solid reason for stealing music other than selfish greed. You can disagree with me on it, but it's just how I feel.
Sure we'd all love to be able to own an album and listen to it fully and repeatedly before making the choice of whether to actually purchase it. But think about if all businesses operated that way......going to a restaurant and eating a full meal, and then deciding on whether or not you thought it was good enough to pay for it. Or picking up a 2008 Lexus and driving it around for a month or so at no cost, just to decide afterwards that you don't "love it enough" to actually pay for it. That's just not how business functions and survives. The average joe just has no clue how much money it costs to be in a band these days, between the cost of gear, gas, rent, other travel expenses, flyers, 'zine ads, vehicle, cd manufacturing, merch, so on and so forth.....if people don't support the band by buying the cds, then it gets very very hard. Even saying "Well I support them by going to see them play" is not good enough, because often we get a very paltry amount of the money made at shows (venues and promoters tending to take the large cut, most times), and the fact that many venues and promoters won't book a band's tour if they have poor cd sales. It all goes around, it's all connected. Y'know there've been enough times that I bought a cd and wound up not liking it much later on, or it didn't click with me or whatever, and that's a shame, but that's just how it goes. Like I said earlier, nowadays with there being so many options for legally getting tastes of a band's music before buying, there's just no really solid reason for stealing music other than selfish greed. You can disagree with me on it, but it's just how I feel.
BrandonS
Member
- Apr 5, 2003
- 2,668
- 2
- 38
I'd have no problem paying $15 for a CD if I knew the bands got the majority of it, but there's no way I'd buy a CD from Amazon for $50 like they're doing now... or $30... And when you try to buy CDs from most bands, it includes shipping (usually out of country shipping) and they add on about $10 for that, plus $15 for the CD, and there's no reason to get a CD straight from the band without an autograph, so you tack on the additional $5 or however much they ask for THAT... It can be pretty ridiculous. I spend a ton of cash printing up CDs and nobody even pays for $7 to buy one but they listen to it for free, so I can see where people could get pissed at this, us underground folk, but the record companies and everyone rolling in some serious cash (like even $50,000 a year is good) shouldn't be whining so much... At least they're not in the negative margins right? I bet the RIAA could donate a billion dollars to stop starvation in Africa, that's how much cash they've got on hand.
At a restaurant you can complain to the manager and choose not to leave a tip... you can test drive a car and drive it around town for a while, and then lease it and not even buy it and still have it.... With music, you basically have to buy the CD or overpriced digital rips of the songs... The 30 second samples are like opening the car door, sitting in the seat, putting on the seat belt, and then having a big hairy bouncer rip you out of the vehicle until you pay for it.
If they sold songs digitally for 50 cents each, they'd get hit by a huge wave of spending... if they lowered it to a quarter, everybody and their mother would be doing it, which would mean huge profits despite lower pricing. All of the people downloading for free would probably spend a quarter per digital song, eh?
At a restaurant you can complain to the manager and choose not to leave a tip... you can test drive a car and drive it around town for a while, and then lease it and not even buy it and still have it.... With music, you basically have to buy the CD or overpriced digital rips of the songs... The 30 second samples are like opening the car door, sitting in the seat, putting on the seat belt, and then having a big hairy bouncer rip you out of the vehicle until you pay for it.
If they sold songs digitally for 50 cents each, they'd get hit by a huge wave of spending... if they lowered it to a quarter, everybody and their mother would be doing it, which would mean huge profits despite lower pricing. All of the people downloading for free would probably spend a quarter per digital song, eh?
NvmbrsDoom5
Member
I don't think so, I think alot of people would still go for completely free, rather than spending .25 cents. Then people would rationalize, "Well, its only 25 cents they're (labels & bands) losing out on, so its no big deal."
Even if we don't get the actual cash in hand of the "majority" of the sale of every cd, those sales still help us to be able to finance a tour, finance our next recording costs, so on and so forth. If we can't earn enough money from cd sales, then the tours and the recordings will cease. Yes, we could then go and start recording ourselves in our basement with a multi-track system on our laptop or something, but we didn't come all this way for all these years, and try to build up a certain standard of quality with our releases, just to take a monumental step back simply because people are too fucking selfish and greedy to shell out a whole $11 for a cd. Maybe the Metallicas and Nicklebacks of the industry can still function properly even with illegal downloading, but your NDs and Agallochs and The End Records' of the world need all the support they can get.
Even if we don't get the actual cash in hand of the "majority" of the sale of every cd, those sales still help us to be able to finance a tour, finance our next recording costs, so on and so forth. If we can't earn enough money from cd sales, then the tours and the recordings will cease. Yes, we could then go and start recording ourselves in our basement with a multi-track system on our laptop or something, but we didn't come all this way for all these years, and try to build up a certain standard of quality with our releases, just to take a monumental step back simply because people are too fucking selfish and greedy to shell out a whole $11 for a cd. Maybe the Metallicas and Nicklebacks of the industry can still function properly even with illegal downloading, but your NDs and Agallochs and The End Records' of the world need all the support they can get.
Oinkness, you always come off as a pretty smart kid, but your views on how the industry works is very naive. After being signed, and dealing with labels for over 18 years, I can tell you, your views are fantasy and "perfect world" syndrome. You didn't grow up in the tape trading days, and it seems you're taking the internet for granted. If you go on to our website, you can "test drive" 10 FULL songs FOR FREE. We're giving away, basically a "best of" CD for nothing. You get to test almost every CD of ours, so people know exactly what they can expect from us, and our label, The End Records, STREAMS all their releases the month prior to the release, again FOR FREE. There's no need anymore to make excuses for stealing. There's plenty of ways to do things the correct way.
When you test drive a car, it's for a very short time, and almost always in the company of a dealership employee. You don't get to take it home, and decide later if it's worth paying for. As for tipping at a restaurant, a tip is for service, not the meal, and if your meal sucks, you STILL have to pay for it, you just may get a free dessert or an item removed.
It's not about the majority of the money going to the band. Like Larry said, it's about the label selling enough product to warrant advances for recording, touring, and other related things. We are able to record with the quality we do on a continuing basis, because we sell enough CD's to warrant better studio budgets. And as far as just how much a band makes per CD, is 100% up to the band. By that I mean, you negotiate that price when signing contracts. If you don't like the offer, no one is forcing the band to sign. The band signs the deal that they are comfortable with. It's not up to you, or anyone else to decide where the money goes for each CD sold. It ALL HELPS us, one way or another. This mentality of DIY in music only goes so far. I hate to use a friend as an example, but talk to Rick and Grey Skies Fallen about DIY, and how it's worked for them over the years. It's HARD. They press their own CDs, and get all the money, and I'm willing to bet they would trade that in a heart beat for a deal on a label who will support them, and only see a profit of $1.00 or 2 a CD.
When you test drive a car, it's for a very short time, and almost always in the company of a dealership employee. You don't get to take it home, and decide later if it's worth paying for. As for tipping at a restaurant, a tip is for service, not the meal, and if your meal sucks, you STILL have to pay for it, you just may get a free dessert or an item removed.
It's not about the majority of the money going to the band. Like Larry said, it's about the label selling enough product to warrant advances for recording, touring, and other related things. We are able to record with the quality we do on a continuing basis, because we sell enough CD's to warrant better studio budgets. And as far as just how much a band makes per CD, is 100% up to the band. By that I mean, you negotiate that price when signing contracts. If you don't like the offer, no one is forcing the band to sign. The band signs the deal that they are comfortable with. It's not up to you, or anyone else to decide where the money goes for each CD sold. It ALL HELPS us, one way or another. This mentality of DIY in music only goes so far. I hate to use a friend as an example, but talk to Rick and Grey Skies Fallen about DIY, and how it's worked for them over the years. It's HARD. They press their own CDs, and get all the money, and I'm willing to bet they would trade that in a heart beat for a deal on a label who will support them, and only see a profit of $1.00 or 2 a CD.
NvmbrsDoom5
Member
Being able to do DIY is cool, and if you have the money and resources to do it, then good for you, but I can tell you it's going to limit what you're able to do and how far you can go eventually. And even being on a label we still have plenty of DIY ethics happening with ND, but without the support from the label and the support of fans who are willing to purchase our cds, we wouldn't have come as far as we have.
dan of bereavement
shroud of bereavement
Bravo to Paul and Larry!!!
I agree 100%. We were shocked to see just how many free download sites there were a week after our album leaked. Seriously, Russian download sites, Bulgaria, Poland just 100's of countrys have our songs/albums for sale and we nor the label see 1 dime. Then when we release the album, everyone already has it (stolen). This, in my oppinion is bullshit. Were is the support? Back in the day things were so different and people just don't even know. As for who get's the money? it's not your (the fan's) decision! I know our latest record cost me $6,000 before mixing and mastering, and I paid every last cent myself, I will NEVER see that money back, ever! And you are telling me who should get the money? As someone mentioned earlier, the label getting "all the money" is indeed very good for the artist no matter how you look at it. If you really want to support the band fully and not buy the cd from the label, buy it direct from the band at shows or their website. I know most bands get a percentage of cd's for themselves to sell, and that definitely helps out.
Man this shit just kills me lately!!!! Sorry for the rant, and no offence guys, just my 2 cents.
Ohh and that review was absolutely disgusting, how was that journalism? That was closeminded imature bullshit. For shame! Talk about the blind leading the blind, no wonder why the music buisness is dying, and why the scene is full of imature closeminded cunts, look at who they have for inspiration?
Also, on the MDB conparison, I must say there is one resembalance that is un-denyable, on a certain album, I will not say the song though lol. Anyone know what song I am talking about? Other than that, they are worlds apart though!
I agree 100%. We were shocked to see just how many free download sites there were a week after our album leaked. Seriously, Russian download sites, Bulgaria, Poland just 100's of countrys have our songs/albums for sale and we nor the label see 1 dime. Then when we release the album, everyone already has it (stolen). This, in my oppinion is bullshit. Were is the support? Back in the day things were so different and people just don't even know. As for who get's the money? it's not your (the fan's) decision! I know our latest record cost me $6,000 before mixing and mastering, and I paid every last cent myself, I will NEVER see that money back, ever! And you are telling me who should get the money? As someone mentioned earlier, the label getting "all the money" is indeed very good for the artist no matter how you look at it. If you really want to support the band fully and not buy the cd from the label, buy it direct from the band at shows or their website. I know most bands get a percentage of cd's for themselves to sell, and that definitely helps out.
Man this shit just kills me lately!!!! Sorry for the rant, and no offence guys, just my 2 cents.
Ohh and that review was absolutely disgusting, how was that journalism? That was closeminded imature bullshit. For shame! Talk about the blind leading the blind, no wonder why the music buisness is dying, and why the scene is full of imature closeminded cunts, look at who they have for inspiration?
Also, on the MDB conparison, I must say there is one resembalance that is un-denyable, on a certain album, I will not say the song though lol. Anyone know what song I am talking about? Other than that, they are worlds apart though!
dan of bereavement
shroud of bereavement
By the way, the one thing you can't download is a T-shirt! So, buy them up!!!!! I am sure ND need the support!
NvmbrsDoom5
Member
Yeah yeah, the damned intro riff to "With Rue And Fire" sounds like the main riff in "Sear Me"....I'm assuming you mean that one, since we've heard about that one for YEARS and people always point to it as their main back-up for why we're "clones" LOL
A couple of funny bits about that riff.....for one thing, it was written by Eric, who had pretty much heard almost NO MDB up to that point, other than a lil' bit here and there, he was completely oblivious to the similarity. It was just an unfortunate coincidence. Plus, hate to tell ya guys but that wasnt the most original riff even when MDB wrote it. I can think of three well known songs that utilize that same pattern of notes which all came out before "Sear Me"...
The other funny thing is, it became a joke between us and MDB when the song came out. They didn't mind at all, they pointed it out to us and we embarassedly apologised and it was all good. Andy from MDB has publicly praised that cd, in fact. But even so, it still became fodder for the naysayers who wanted something to use against us. The only comfort I take really is knowing that MDB themselves are cool with it and enjoy it nonetheless, and I care much more about their opinions than a bunch of shittalking critics out there.
And thanks for the support Dan.....I want to emphasize one final time (since it seems to go over certain people's heads) that our rants are not sour grapes over receiving a bad review. Bad reviews come and go, it happens. Our criticism of Mr. Bartek was pointedly regarding the shoddiness of the review itself and how ironic it is that someone can slam us for doing a bad job, and yet do such a bad job themselves. Trying to excuse it by saying you wanted to not be foofy and just "cut through the bullshit" is ludicrous....unless you definite cutting through the bullshit as "completely disregarding any constructive and eloquent writing techniques". lol
A couple of funny bits about that riff.....for one thing, it was written by Eric, who had pretty much heard almost NO MDB up to that point, other than a lil' bit here and there, he was completely oblivious to the similarity. It was just an unfortunate coincidence. Plus, hate to tell ya guys but that wasnt the most original riff even when MDB wrote it. I can think of three well known songs that utilize that same pattern of notes which all came out before "Sear Me"...
The other funny thing is, it became a joke between us and MDB when the song came out. They didn't mind at all, they pointed it out to us and we embarassedly apologised and it was all good. Andy from MDB has publicly praised that cd, in fact. But even so, it still became fodder for the naysayers who wanted something to use against us. The only comfort I take really is knowing that MDB themselves are cool with it and enjoy it nonetheless, and I care much more about their opinions than a bunch of shittalking critics out there.
And thanks for the support Dan.....I want to emphasize one final time (since it seems to go over certain people's heads) that our rants are not sour grapes over receiving a bad review. Bad reviews come and go, it happens. Our criticism of Mr. Bartek was pointedly regarding the shoddiness of the review itself and how ironic it is that someone can slam us for doing a bad job, and yet do such a bad job themselves. Trying to excuse it by saying you wanted to not be foofy and just "cut through the bullshit" is ludicrous....unless you definite cutting through the bullshit as "completely disregarding any constructive and eloquent writing techniques". lol
dan of bereavement
shroud of bereavement
Nope, things were different period!
I remember when you would buy a cd because the album cover art was awesome, and 98% of the time, the band was awesome.
So are you saying that the internet had nothing to do with the industry dying?
And if you don't think it's dying, think again, cause all the label heads are scratching their heads and shaking in their shoes. All I am saying is the Piracy issues today are nothing like someone shoplifting a few cd's. This is millions and millions of cd's stolen by the hour man. One person downloads it, the other passes it to their friend for free, and so on and so. Where do you think the artists like ND and others get paid? Think about it!
It's not you and "your generation", it's technology, living in the information age, things have changed and so has the music industry, where they will go now, your guess is as good a guess as mine.
Back in the day, people SUPPOPRTED metal, bought merch, traveled to shows, were in contact in a much more direct way, people sent letters, and the bands would help eachother. ...That's the difference.
I remember when you would buy a cd because the album cover art was awesome, and 98% of the time, the band was awesome.
So are you saying that the internet had nothing to do with the industry dying?
And if you don't think it's dying, think again, cause all the label heads are scratching their heads and shaking in their shoes. All I am saying is the Piracy issues today are nothing like someone shoplifting a few cd's. This is millions and millions of cd's stolen by the hour man. One person downloads it, the other passes it to their friend for free, and so on and so. Where do you think the artists like ND and others get paid? Think about it!
It's not you and "your generation", it's technology, living in the information age, things have changed and so has the music industry, where they will go now, your guess is as good a guess as mine.
Back in the day, people SUPPOPRTED metal, bought merch, traveled to shows, were in contact in a much more direct way, people sent letters, and the bands would help eachother. ...That's the difference.
dan of bereavement
shroud of bereavement
Ha ha ha, yeah, that's the one lol.
great song either way man, I love it!
That is a funny story lol, and yeah, the progression and succession of notes has been played before. I think when it comes right down to it, There are only 12 notes man, at some point, they will all have been used. lol.
Dude, I will always support you guys!
Jasonic
Doom On!
Hey, I always say there is no such thing as bad press.
As long as people are talking about you, all is good.
Someone might read something in a negative review, and go, "Why are they slamming that? That aspect of the music sounds interesting"
As long as people are talking about you, all is good.
Someone might read something in a negative review, and go, "Why are they slamming that? That aspect of the music sounds interesting"
BrandonS
Member
- Apr 5, 2003
- 2,668
- 2
- 38
Yeah, I can be naive, you've been signed to a label for 18 years and I've only been sentient for about 15... you've got a lot of experience and existence-time that I'm not even close to yet. I'll be 20 on the 28th, it's gonna be sweet.
But anyway, I totally get what you said. If the label collects most of the money and then uses that towards helping the band out and enabling them to do things in the future, then that's farkin' sweet. Trust me, The End Records not having money is completely their fault. I know for sure that they've missed at least 2 separate, $120 orders from me simply because most of their CDs are out of stock, or went out of stock before I had the chance to press the "check out" button.
I don't know what they're trying to pull by not offering anything, but it seems like bad business ethics to me.
I would buy a T-shirt if you guys carried 5XL, or "Paul Sizes" haha I'm just kidding man <3 but yeah, no bands make them that big thus I never get the opportunity to buy a shirt. If you've got it, flaunt it, right? I have to be able to flaunt it. I can't just vacuum pack a small t-shirt in plastic and hang it above my fireplace. (Yes, I have a fireplace in my bedroom, but it's bricked up and doesn't work.)
I personally think the biggest problem with the music industry today is supply and demand. Walk into Wal-Mart -- go ahead and toss out your insults towards the place, but the simply fact is, most people shop at Walmart, at least in America... and poor American areas. They do not sell metal CDs. They sell radio-orientated rock, punk, and hip hop. Of course metal is going to suffer from this, and nobody is going to spend $14.99 retail price on new popular american CDs with one good song and 13 pieces of crap. If they played metal on a radio station and had the CDs in the store, I'm sure people would buy them. It's the simple idea of supply and demand, but it just doesn't happen I guess.
They have about 7 country stations in the Pittsburgh (major US city) area.
I'll be 20 on the 28th, it's gonna be sweet.But anyway, I totally get what you said. If the label collects most of the money and then uses that towards helping the band out and enabling them to do things in the future, then that's farkin' sweet. Trust me, The End Records not having money is completely their fault. I know for sure that they've missed at least 2 separate, $120 orders from me simply because most of their CDs are out of stock, or went out of stock before I had the chance to press the "check out" button.
I don't know what they're trying to pull by not offering anything, but it seems like bad business ethics to me.
I would buy a T-shirt if you guys carried 5XL, or "Paul Sizes" haha I'm just kidding man <3 but yeah, no bands make them that big thus I never get the opportunity to buy a shirt. If you've got it, flaunt it, right? I have to be able to flaunt it. I can't just vacuum pack a small t-shirt in plastic and hang it above my fireplace. (Yes, I have a fireplace in my bedroom, but it's bricked up and doesn't work.)
I personally think the biggest problem with the music industry today is supply and demand. Walk into Wal-Mart -- go ahead and toss out your insults towards the place, but the simply fact is, most people shop at Walmart, at least in America... and poor American areas. They do not sell metal CDs. They sell radio-orientated rock, punk, and hip hop. Of course metal is going to suffer from this, and nobody is going to spend $14.99 retail price on new popular american CDs with one good song and 13 pieces of crap. If they played metal on a radio station and had the CDs in the store, I'm sure people would buy them. It's the simple idea of supply and demand, but it just doesn't happen I guess.
They have about 7 country stations in the Pittsburgh (major US city) area.
AnTz0r
Crimson King
actually the economical dynamics around the current problems in the music industry stray far from simple supply and demand.
http://people.ischool.berkeley.edu/~hal/Papers/2004/copying-and-copyright.pdf
the guy has plenty of more accessible articles on his website as well. read up on that. once the industry accepts downloading and moves on there is a whole range of possiblities to still make money. the longer they cling to their old business model the more potential they leave untouched. i think it's time for a more pragmatical standpoint. with the amount of people sharing/downloading/uploading/pirating (whatever view you take) music is this huge, and still rising, it's not about ethics anymore. musicians can't force their ethic on society as a whole. neither can politicians, in time. think about it. with 75% (for example) of the population engaging in file sharing, what politician is going to pass a law against it? things will change, in a term of maybe 10 years. remember how there was napster in '99, downloading songs at 5 kb/s most of the time, something for nerdy people in attics? that was only 8 years ago. think how far it has come since then, the more action has been taken against it the more accessible it has actually become. and things are improving more rapid then slowly. what took 5 years of developing 10 years ago can now rise and fall in one.
in all the online discussions about filesharing i rarely see people talking about stuff like this. we can sit here and bitch about the downloading until everybody's out of business, but we must also realise that if we want something to change, the initiative will have to come from musicians and consumers. don't count on the record industry to change something until everybody's bankrupt.
http://people.ischool.berkeley.edu/~hal/Papers/2004/copying-and-copyright.pdf
the guy has plenty of more accessible articles on his website as well. read up on that. once the industry accepts downloading and moves on there is a whole range of possiblities to still make money. the longer they cling to their old business model the more potential they leave untouched. i think it's time for a more pragmatical standpoint. with the amount of people sharing/downloading/uploading/pirating (whatever view you take) music is this huge, and still rising, it's not about ethics anymore. musicians can't force their ethic on society as a whole. neither can politicians, in time. think about it. with 75% (for example) of the population engaging in file sharing, what politician is going to pass a law against it? things will change, in a term of maybe 10 years. remember how there was napster in '99, downloading songs at 5 kb/s most of the time, something for nerdy people in attics? that was only 8 years ago. think how far it has come since then, the more action has been taken against it the more accessible it has actually become. and things are improving more rapid then slowly. what took 5 years of developing 10 years ago can now rise and fall in one.
in all the online discussions about filesharing i rarely see people talking about stuff like this. we can sit here and bitch about the downloading until everybody's out of business, but we must also realise that if we want something to change, the initiative will have to come from musicians and consumers. don't count on the record industry to change something until everybody's bankrupt.
dan of bereavement
shroud of bereavement
Great points man.
I do think we need to do something as musicians and fans to make a difference.Also, think about whomever comes up with the next big wave of new music buisness ideals, that makes it a level playing field for any jack off label (could be you or me). There's a shit ton of money to be made, I just wish I knew the answers.
I do think we need to do something as musicians and fans to make a difference.Also, think about whomever comes up with the next big wave of new music buisness ideals, that makes it a level playing field for any jack off label (could be you or me). There's a shit ton of money to be made, I just wish I knew the answers.
- Status
