Have your religious/spiritual beliefs changed in the past year?

[skeptik]

Matter.

Science merely claims it "can neither be created nor destroyed".

Can you demonstrate how matter positively has "no reason for its existence?"

 

[mutantllama]

Man if I believe everything my dreams showed me...I would probably be dead...

Yeah but I see it when I'm thinking strait and I'm wide awake.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I've slowly shifted from a liberal Catholic to an middle-of-the-road agnostic. I still identify with Catholicism, but it plays almost no role in my secular life. The main reason is that I just tend not to dwell on such matters of God and spirituality. I just live my life by practical means.

So I take it Catholicism is more of a custom than a belief system for you?

 

[ohiogrinder]

You pray to gods. That is a commitment to a belief.

but neither you nor I can claim the existence or non-existence of said gods.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Wow, you're not much of a philosopher are you? Asking why something is true is the very basis of reasoning. I'm clearly willing to accept a rational explanation for this claim; it's just that nobody has given one yet.

I can't reasonably entertain questions which attempt to falsify such blatantly obvious concepts as the existence of the universe.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

You're inherently closing your ears to reasoning if you can't even concede that the universe exists...

OI, that's a fallacious case against the non-appearance of a god. What should a god care whether faith is existent or not? The concept of religion and faith are HUMAN concepts. We invented the words and ideas behind them. A higher being would have no use for these.

Well that just adds to the idea that god is incomprehensible or non-existant.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Yeah but I see it when I'm thinking strait and I'm wide awake.

That sounds pretty awesome.

Can you demonstrate how matter positively has "no reason for its existence?"

No, but you claimed that everything has a reason for existence, which is unjustified if you can't explain how matter has a reason for existing.

 

[skeptik]

but neither you nor I can claim the existence or non-existence of said gods.

...and this is why you're special. You are praying to things that you admit you are not confident even EXIST.

 

[Zephyrus]

So I take it Catholicism is more of a custom than a belief system for you?

Essentially, yes. I have my beliefs, but the only practical role they play is moral governance. I believe that being raised Catholic has built me upon a strong moral foundation and allowed me to respect those of other beliefs, theistic or atheistic.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I can't reasonably entertain questions which attempt to falsify such blatantly obvious concepts as the existence of the universe.

What? If it were so blatantly obvious, you should certainly be able to rationally justify it. You're just not trying.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Essentially, yes. I have my beliefs, but the only practical role they play is moral governance. I believe that being raised Catholic has built me upon a strong moral foundation and allowed me to respect those of other beliefs, theistic or atheistic.

Cool. I have a friend who grew up religious and grew out of it, but still thinks it was a positive influence on his morals. Of course, there are other people who grow up to rebel against religion, and appear to become really screwed up as a result of it; so I'd say it has more to do with the person itself than the belief system.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Well that just adds to the idea that god is incomprehensible or non-existant.

Not really, though it's true that the idea of a god is technically incomprehensible. If a hypothetical god existed, he would obviously be transcendent of the mundanity of human life.

Vihris, you're collapsing into the Twilight Zone of thought in which you can't even go along with basic concepts of existence...I'd highly suggest you allow yourself to get a grip on the fact that the universe exists quickly. I don't have to explain or rationalize things which quite clearly are. You're alive right now. So am I. Do I have any logical explanation to intrinsically prove this? No, but we assume it is true lest we fall into the aforementioned world of everything just being completely illogical, which doesn't allow discussions or arguments to take place merely because nothing can be proven.

Also, the Judeo-Christian moral system is usually generally agreeable, especially the part about not killing people. Most people who lack beliefs/faith still have some semblance of ethics, so this makes sense. There's nothing wrong with having a vaguely "Christian" sense of values if the part about god, Jesus, and all of the ridiculous superstitions are left out.

 

[skeptik]

No, but you claimed that everything has a reason for existence, which is unjustified if you can't explain how matter has a reason for existing.

As far as we can show, and based on everything we know, it seems to be the case that all things have some sort of cause for existence. Let me know when you can show that something can exist without a cause and then get back to me. Why the hell wouldn't matter have a reason for existing?

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Where does it all start, though.

 

[ohiogrinder]

...and this is why you're special.

well thats just a matter of opinion. quit acting like your ideas are the be-all end-all of everything. in a perfect world, you probably think everyone should bow down to science and forget about spirituality. whether or not if the universe was created or came into by itself is irrelevant. you seem to forget spirituality helps people in more ways than just the eternal question "where did I come from?" Religion, or more specifically, spirituality, helps in guiding a person in the right direction. life becomes more understandable. but hey, if atheism works well for you, and you just enjoy the thought of spending eternity rotting in the ground with no real purpose, then more power to ya. Just don't count on me joining you.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

As far as we can show, and based on everything we know, it seems to be the case that all things have some sort of cause for existence. Let me know when you can show that something can exist without a cause and then get back to me. Why the hell wouldn't matter have a reason for existing?

Because, physically speaking, matter and energy are the only things for which there is really a question of existence. Pretty much everything else in the universe is based off of those, so their existence is really based off the existence of matter/energy.

I'd be interested to hear some examples of other things you believe exist, besides matter - and see if you can come up with something that isn't intrinsically tied into matter.

 

[Alter]

I don't believe in a physical Odin, but rather follow the teachings of Norse Mythology. bravery, honor, respect for one's ancestors.

Which would not really make you an Asatru. More of an admirer of the faith.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Spirituality "helping you through life" is psychological more than anything else, tbh.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I'd be interested to hear some examples of other things you believe exist, besides matter - and see if you can come up with something that isn't intrinsically tied into matter.

I honestly can't believe I'm reading this.

 

[ohiogrinder]

Which would not really make you an Asatru. More of an admirer of the faith.

I guess I can see your point, but it still gives purpose to my life.