Health Care: Right, Privilege or Responsibility

Which is it?


  • Total voters
    33
You're a fucking retard if you thought that I was actually attempting to create an argument out of that.

No sir, I thought no such thing. I just thought it rather weak of you to duck out and feel content to just basically say what amounted to "you disagree with me? yeah well I don't give a shit fuck you." But whatever, fella. You can say whatever you like.

Are you drunk right now

Yes, as a matter of fact I am.

and are too stupid to realize

This kind of talk is just unnecessary, but then again I did kind of throw the first stone.

that I was making a simple ideological statement, and not an argument?

Yeah that's what I didn't like about it.

Or did you assume that I intended to use that in place of an argument?

Not so much.

You should know me better than that by now you Mexicunt.

Whatever you say, gabacho.
 
I don't know what a gabacho is, but the point of my post was that, regardless of the justifications for welfare programs, I still feel an impulse toward saying fuck you to people like Dakryn who are stupid enough to say shit like "legalized theft" while ignoring the fact that they agreed to contribute to the US government's governing capabilities by paying taxes. Disagreeing with the government's means of governing and seeing it as a waste of your tax dollars is not the same thing as having your money stolen. Perhaps I'll lay out a better argument over the weekend, but don't count on it. I have a lot of work to catch up on, this is the only day I've allowed myself to fuck around on the internets this week.
 
A gabacho is you. I don't know about what Dakryn has been saying because I've only been skimming over his posts except for the parts where he says that he agrees with me. I read those carefully because it's awesome and important when people agree with me.
 
I am drunk, but I just want to say that I hate libertarian arguments. They constantly blame the unfortunate for shirking responsibilities, but it is really the fortunate who would be shirking responsibilities in a libertarian system. They are too dense to see that it is to their benefit to have public education, public housing, public healthcare, etc. Whatever taxes they bear carry the benefit of their own safety. You cut entitlements, and crime, homelessness, and general misery increase exponentially. In a highly stratified nation, it's clear to see how these gaps cause social tension. You end up with South America, where kidnappings with high ransoms are a regular occurrence.

For several decades, the elites have pushed this American Dream bullshit, where anyone can do anything, and point to a handful of self-made individuals, who don't look so common compared to the few million that didn't do so well. Land of opportunity my ass. Keep in mind this is coming from someone who got a $150,000+ in college scholarships. You can work your ass off, get some scholarships, get into a good school, and some legacy asshole still has an exponentially better shot at a job than someone who had to work to get the chance.

I just don't know how we should deal with luck, in a philosophical sense. When someone wins the lottery, or a lot of money at a casino, we tax them heavily on it. When someone is lucky enough to have rich parents and win their inheritance, the amount the gov't takes is far less. I don't see a fundamental difference between the two things. Inheritance is lottery winnings. It is luck. The person who inherits money deserves it just as much as the one who wins the lottery. It doesn't make sense to treat them differently.

I guess if you have a fundamental disagreement with me over whether government's primary role is to primarily protect people's liberties or to provide its citizens with equal opportunites and hedge their bets, in a sense, then we'll disagree. I just think gov't is better served as an insurance policy. Isn't that what the police is? Isn't that what the fire dep't is for? Individually we have a low probability to need their services, but we're sympathetic enough to agree it's worth having for those who need it at the time. Otherwise let's let those who can afford the police or fire department privately lease these services, and everyone else be damned. Now, of course this is not acceptable to hardly anyone, but the difference between gov't provided fire and police and gov't provided healthcare and unemployment insurance seems entirely arbitrary. Libertarians are so fond of systems that benefit them personally, then as soon as it reaches out to someone else, it's not fair anymore. The difference between the aforementioned examples is that you may be able to afford the last two, and those who can't can fuck off.

This is an awful, drunken post.
 
Dakryn, you claim to be a Military man, correct?

You also believe or claim to believe that we as Americans, rich or poor. Do not have a right to any freebies. Everything must be worked for. Everything must be aquired through payment.

No healthcare, no public schooling, welfare, social security. No nothing.

Well then how do you justify our Military protection. We as Americans have the right to equal protection from our country. Doesn't matter whether we're rich or poor. Equal.

So according to your belief and the nonsense you have been gracing all of us with. The rich man should be allowed to pay for better protection. And some of us less fortunate should be left out in the cold? Does this also pertain to Law Enforcement? How bout Fire Protection?

We live in the greatest country in the world. Some of our policies and actions may be a little off at times. But we still live in the greatest country.

We help each other. If it was every man for himself. What kind of fucking zoo would we live in?

Something as vital in our lives as healthcare should be provided equally to every one of us. We are Americans.
 
Seriously, why the fuck not just have a private military? Apparently it's somehow the ONLY thing a government can do better than the private sector. I find that distinction rather hilarious.

(note to Cyth: I'll get back to your posts when I have more time - I'm at work atm)
 
(you are a libertarian, right???)

I don't consider myself one per se, but most of my views align with that viewpoint.

I wholeheartedly agree with your assertion that forcefully taking away someone's property is inherently wrong. I find it to be unconstitutional when it comes down to it (Fourth Amendment violation). Although, in the case of the Fourth Amendment, 'reasonable' means different things to different people.
 
I've decided I'm voting for Barr. I just can't bring myself to support either Obama or McCain. I know people say you throw away your vote if you vote third party; but that's what's great about this country. We can throw our votes away if we choose to.
 
I've decided I'm voting for Barr. I just can't bring myself to support either Obama or McCain. I know people say you throw away your vote if you vote third party; but that's what's great about this country. We can throw our votes away if we choose to.

Okay, I actually take back what I said about it being pointless to vote for third-party candidates. But there's still a very good reason why you shouldn't vote for Barr: he's FUCKING NUTS.

Not only does he want to abolish public education, but he thinks Iran is NOT DANGEROUS, and he opposes our participation in the United Nations. And as much as he fucking rants against the Patriot Act, he fucking VOTED FOR IT.

I'm sorry, but if you vote for him you have no common sense whatsoever.
 
Not only does he want to abolish public education, but he thinks Iran is NOT DANGEROUS, and he opposes our participation in the United Nations. And as much as he fucking rants against the Patriot Act, he fucking VOTED FOR IT.

His education policies are some of the few things I don't fully with him about. However, I don't think it's a completely insane policy. When people hear "abolish public education" they automatically think that means people won't be able to afford it. What they don't consider is that Barr wants education to be controlled on a state or community level. This means less government control in our education system. This, in turn, means more choices for parents as to the education of their children. He's actually trying to make education more accessible for those in poorer communities (whether or not that would work according to plan is debatable). But let's just make it clear that Barr isn't trying to restrict education. It's not as though he doesn't want people to learn. He's right when he says that educational reform currently isn't working. Personally, I think he has much better policies than Obama or McCain in a lot of areas.