Help convince me to go Mac...

I started working on a pro studio with a Mac in august >>>> The fact that there are almost no free plug ins ... is also a big con.
"pro" and "free" are two words which simply don't go together.... and why should they? a "pro studio" implies that money is being charged.


At first I was "wow, a mac!!!", but was kinda annoyed due to all the different things i had to re-learn.
heh heh, :loco:.... yeah, i decided to learn French once. At first i was "wow, a new language!!!", but was kinda annoyed due to all the different words i had to re-learn. c'mon now, lol :p

My $800 PC is by FAR faster than the $3000 mac we have at the studio (remember I am in Brazil, so things are really expensive). I learned a lot of Mac things already, but the lack of option to customize it to my tastes REALLY bugs me. Finder is cool at first, but after a while it got on my nerves due to it's simplicity. And the worst part, the thing is NOT that more stable than XP - Nuendo crashes at least 2 times a day, and OSX already hung completely, forcing me to do a hard reset, twice.
yeah, can you quantify the differences between the computers, like... which is older? what processors? which is better maintained by the operators? which has only one user who knows how to maintain it and which has multiple users of which some may not be savvy about maintainance? far too many possible variables, those are just a few i've pointed out, for any such vague references to really mean much at all.

Nuendo crashing sounds like a Nuendo problem, and only two OS crashes in nearly half a year is a fantastic record for any OS, especially on a Studio computer that's likely used constantly and by more than one person. OSX is most definitely, all other things being equal, far more stable than XP. The Finder is only simple on the surface, when/if you learn OSX better those complaints will disappear.


BUT, those are personal opinions and i still like it, besides the fact that clients are really impressed with it. Actually its relieving to not use Windows for once.
;)

Why dont you build a hackintosh ? Just build a PC with the same specs as a real MAC (except for the CPU), and you're ready to rock, but cheaper.
yeah, what Let It Burn said... he's need to really do his research, and still not get the hassle-free normal mac experience.
 
@OP: Here's my take on the situation - take it as you will. I don't much care for these debates and the fanaticism and outright bigotry they appear to inevitably inspire.

You strike me as someone on a budget, trying to get the very most you can out of a financially-conscious purchase. That would put you in the same boat with the other 98% of us on the forum (and perhaps the wider world).

My goals, not implying that you share them, dictate to me that I should gear my buying decisions toward getting the best quality end product out of my purchase, for as little money spent as possible. Best sound quality, dollar for dollar, weighed against the speed and efficiency inherent to a more costly computer. Going with that logic, in your case I see two viable solutions, both being centered around a PC platform. Here they are:

1) Purchase a PC with (roughly) equivalent specs to the iMac you are considering. Use the spare few thousand dollars saved over to invest in gear that improves the actual sound quality of your work. Better plug-ins, better outboard, essentially anything better than the free plug-ins you are aspiring toward. At the end of the day, whether or not you get a Mac or PC, you've just got another number crunching machine. Whichever way they crunch numbers, they'll both still run your DAW (unless it's Logic :)) and they'll both still sum the same. One costs more than the other. One is (arguably) easier to operate and more foolproof than the other. I won't say 'reliable', as they both essentially run off gear made by the same manufacturers; the only significant factor is warranty and support as far as hardware goes. So once again, I would run with the custom PC and use the savings to purchase gear that retains more fidelity, sounds more musical, offers greater options etc. etc. Basically, gear that is somewhat consequential as far as the audible end product is concerned.

2) Use the same amount of money as you would spend on the iMac and use it on a custom built PC. You will get better specs. You will crunch numbers faster. You will twiddle your thumbs for less time, waiting for tracks to bounce (provided you're not running outboard and/or ProTools). You will be able to run more tracks, more plug-in instances and crunch larger numbers in real time. Dollar for dollar, for my purposes (and hopefully yours), the machine that has the most end number crunching potential is the most logical purchase. This is counter-weighed by the fact that:

-You will be running a greatly outdated OS.
-You need knowledge on setting up and maintaining such a machine as your OS is old, clunky, bloated & untweaked. (Hint: TinyXP).
-You will need to augment your OS and workflow with 3rd party software in many cases.
-You won't be running Logic.
-You may find the cost in time & patience necessitated by all the above factors outweighs the benefits of a more powerful machine.

So there's the situation and the options as I see them. You've likely gathered by now that I'm a PC user. I have been one for over a decade or so now. My major experiences, running Macs on a semi-regular basis started roughly 4 years ago - when I first started recording in professional studio facilities. I took a dislike to them from the moment I'd started using them, and my experiences in the subsequent 4 years have done nothing to change my impressions.

This is getting a bit off topic now, but I figure I should stay within the spirit of the thread and voice my needless propaganda at you for good measure. What I tend to dislike most about Apple is perhaps the user base, or at least the sort of mentality it cultivates. The level of arrogance, smugness & elitism exhibited by a good 90% of Mac users I have ever encountered is perhaps only matched by the sector of the populace who drive hybrid cars. Apple's advertising approach is a thinly-veiled smear campaign against PCs, no less foul than what the political parties engage in leading up to an election. I'm sure you guys in the US would've had your fill of that in recent times. I'd say the same for Oz, whenever it was that our current dipshit was elected, but I don't even bother watching TV anymore, so no.

Anywhoo, I tend to avoid getting caught up in these threads, but since you seem to genuinely want some advice on the best system to buy, I couldn't help but chip in with my thoughts. I believe that buying the most powerful machine, buck-for-buck is in line with the better approach to take in this situation. Save what money you can and invest it in gear that will improve your tone-retention (pres, converters, clocks) or tone-sculpting (EQs, comps, verbs, delays, blah blah) rather than giving too much creed to the platform that crunches your numbers.
 
I'm a PC guy too. For years and years. Yes, Win XP isn't the most beautiful operating system there is but it works and that like a charm.
It is always the user who fucks it up, it it just a lot easier to do so on PC. Though that doesn't make it inferior IMHO.

I understand the people who dig their MACs yet their elitism is very subjective and distracting. I worked with a Mac here and there and it surely is fun to do so. But I can't be bothered to switch because I don't see a good reason for that. I feel save with my system. I know what to do when something goes wacky (which it rarely does).

It is just a totally different approach. Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages, many of them have been pointed out already. There's no "better" system. If you want a change and have time to adjust to a new, different system and you feel the need for it then go for it. If not, stay with PCs.

Just my 2c.
 
The thing I like most about PC's, when you mess up there's tons of help on the net. If you mess up a Mac, you get quite a few people telling you its your own fault since Apples are perfect in their world. So a fukkup on a Mac takes much longer to solve, and believe me, they happen (first Mac IIci, last one MDD 800DP).

For the record: I still run a PT mixset (as an FXrack) on a Marathon powermac 9600, but it took some serious time and investment to get it as perfect as it runs for years now. But that's OS9.

Anyway, you have to know your stuff about reading IRQ's for your audiocard, steer away from firewire (its not that bad, but PCIe is better) and make a dualboot, one slimmed down XP partition for work, another one for internet, iWank and stuff.

...and the best EQ (sez Katz) runs on XP.
 
New imac in jan 09 - as it will be nvidia (at least some of 'em) will it even have firewire ? maybe the top line effort will, maybe it will go all usb - i don't really care - Apple is just an OS nowadays, plus a mass of internet zealots that don't think let alone think different...
 
What I tend to dislike most about Apple is perhaps the user base, or at least the sort of mentality it cultivates. The level of arrogance, smugness & elitism exhibited by a good 90% of Mac users I have ever encountered is perhaps only matched by the sector of the populace who drive hybrid cars.
couldnt agree more. working for apple made me realize that most mac users enjoy smelling their own farts out of champagne glasses. I think their are def. advantages to both and the argument is silly. go with what meets your needs.

speaking of linear phase eq`s, thats another good reason to go for logic pro!!!!!

forbidden already has a pc, maybe it is time to add a mac to his arsenal!!
 
It's funny and somehow ironic how you guys are talking PC vs. Mac when in reality 90% of the arguments going on here are actually a Windows vs. Mac OS debate...

Sure, you can compare anything with everything, but how much informative essence will be there? A PC can be anything but a Mac consists of a defined set of components. So comparing anything but closely defined systems on both sides, is pretty much pointless IMO.

To me - especially since Apple went down the x86 route - a Mac ain't much more than a "PC" with dedicated (good quality) hardware and OS. The borders are vanishing...
 
I fail to see how that has any bearing on the topic at hand Transputer. Besides, why would you hate on a genius idea like that? The developers are making TONS of money for making an application for a phone that makes fart noises. That's awesome. I wish I was on the development team laughing all the way to the bank myself...

~006
 
Slash - the difference is that Apple works hand-in-hand with the companies they use hardware from to get every last drop of performance, not to mention stability and compatibility from other pieces of hardware that make up the machine. With a Windows machine, you are buying a box full of parts that are merely "supposed to" work together, and an operating system that is separate. Granted, you can definitely do the research and build your own machine based on parts you can find to work very well together. But Microsoft doesn't do that for you. Apple does. With PCs in my experience, yeah, it should work, but explain to me why my 3.4gHz/2gb ram Dell couldn't compete with my 1.33gHz/768MB ram PowerBook? Dell or not...it should have shat on the PowerBook. But it definitely didn't. In fact, it was the complete opposite. And I'm pretty savvy with PC's enough to tweak them to perform their "best", as much as they can anyway...but again, that's another point...with Macs, you don't need to tweak them.

The marketing campaign Apple has that is a "thinly veiled smear" on PCs is funny because it's true. Ever stop complaining about that long enough to think "hmm, wonder why Microsoft hasn't done the same thing?" Because the points in the Apple commercials are valid. That's not a stab at you, Ermin, but really anyone that has a problem with the commercials.

~006
 
To the old guard on PowerPC mac - when your mobos and psu's finally die what you gonna do ? you'll be forced to repair, go intel mac or what ? what's your plan ?

And this is a serious post as I maybe in the exact same predicament as you despite appearing to despise what Apple has become and hung up my zealot cloak...
 
When it finally dies, I will go Intel Mac. Until then, I see no reason to upgrade. I actually plan on getting an Intel Mac soon enough, just gotta save up the cash for an 8-core because the only time I'll have to upgrade after that is years down the road when it dies. :)

And believe me when I say I also do not care for the direction Apple is going with their marketing and such. Again, I do not want them to gain any more market share.

~006
 
"pro" and "free" are two words which simply don't go together.... and why should they? a "pro studio" implies that money is being charged.

I disagree. On a PC if you need some simple chorus or whatever fx plug in, you can just google it, download, and you´re ready to go. No need to spend money on something that will be used maybe once. The other day i needed a chorus for ´fixing´ some stuff, and it was a PITA to find one for mac. Paying isnt a pre-requisite for being pro. Good is a requirement for being pro.

yeah, can you quantify the differences between the computers, like... which is older? what processors? which is better maintained by the operators? which has only one user who knows how to maintain it and which has multiple users of which some may not be savvy about maintainance? far too many possible variables, those are just a few i've pointed out, for any such vague references to really mean much at all.

The Mac is a dual core, my PC is a quad and that worsens (is this a real word? eheh) the price/performance ratio. For the price of the mac, i could buy the PC, a 5150 and a nice pre, and still get better performance. Not that i defend PCs or nothing, it is just the reality.


Nuendo crashing sounds like a Nuendo problem, and only two OS crashes in nearly half a year is a fantastic record for any OS, especially on a Studio computer that's likely used constantly and by more than one person. OSX is most definitely, all other things being equal, far more stable than XP. The Finder is only simple on the surface, when/if you learn OSX better those complaints will disappear.

Like i said, i actually like OSX ,for the ease of use and because there are no popups appearing everytime i fart. But the stability for me, isnt that much better than XP or whatever microsoft has made recently, but thats my experience only. We are still using Tiger there, and in january, we´re going to upgrade to Leopard and see what happens.Nuendo has its bugs, but osx has also its share of bugs that arent Nuendo related.

yeah, what Let It Burn said... he's need to really do his research, and still not get the hassle-free normal mac experience.
[/quote]

As far as my opinion to build a hackintosh, there are some configs that work almost out of the box. An Intel motherboard, Ati radeon 2600 videocard, and no fancy stuff, and theres no need to install half a dozen of kext files
 
Mac:
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
 
Mulder... you a very cool contributor to this forum, and have been here a while... **respect knuckles**. but yeah.. you just made that shit up.. lol... sorry, calls 'em like i see's 'em.

i've been using macs for 14 years + and never once had that experience when asking for help on a mac forum, and never once failed to help when i was asked. seriously... just go to any mac forum at all, ask for help, and you will receive itl... fuck, just go look at some... what you will find is experienced mac guys giving each other and new guys help. i just scanned several mac forums while eating my lunch, trying my damnedest to find a scenario like you've described... and i can't.

i'm sure it's possible to find a few examples here and there... but you will find some douchebags in any forum.... but it is NOT a standard way of behaving of mac power users, and for the record most long-time mac users were using them far before the trendy TV commercials created this false "elitist" image.