And, let me explain you the difference between going to the shows and buying albums. You go to the shows for a selfish reason, because you want to see and enjoy the band live. Then, you buy the albums for two reasons, first, again selfish, because you're a collector and want to own the album, second, because you want to support the band, because you want them to make more music.
How many In Flames albums do you own?
- Thread starter kimmystrongarms
- Start date
Jester Slave
Narcissist
Explain me how does my overpriced concert ticket does not support them. I'm fairly sure they got more money off it than from a regular cd, not to mention they will be asked to play again if the hosts see they attracted a good amount of people.
No, I'm talking about your motivations. You did not go for support, but for your own enjoyment. And of course they do more money that from cds, but, you know what? No music sales (be it cd, itunes or Vynil), no record company, no more new music, no more tours. And, as I said before, go tell them yourself why you download their music instead of paying for it.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
Why does my motivation matter when I support them either way?! Look at it this way: I have X amount of money to spend on luxurious things, such as buying a cd to support a band whose members could probably live off from the money they already earned, even if their newest cd had 0 sells, or go to a concert. I'm pretty sure they get much more money from a concert ticket than from cd sells, but all right, let's say it's the same. Still, if the both of these combined costs more than X, then I have to choose from sitting home and watching an inanimate object not doing anything, or go to a show to get something new out from my money, while also having the chance to give them a verbal feedback on their work IN PERSON, which I'm quite sure matters more to them than a +1 number at their record sale database.
If I'm a selfish bastard for wanting some enjoyment out of my money, something I could not get otherwise, then yes, I am guilty. But at the end of the day, both of us invested money into the In Flames experience, so once again, questioning my motives is just... I don't know, rude? What if I were to buy IF disks so I can play frisbee with them? Even with such a retarded motivation, I'd actually support them.
From this conversation I get the feeling that you don't know much about the life in Eastern-Europe, but can't blame you. One country to the west of us and everyone has 3* more salary and owning a house and a car are just as basic stuff as having shoes in here, so I can't even imagine what could people think about us at the other side of Europe.
(and no, I'm not saying you can't buy stupid shit here, but it DOES make a difference if in one country the minimal wage is around 1100 euros, while it's less than 400 here)
Jester Slave
Narcissist
Define cheap. Then define what's a reasonable internet speed. Then define what's a cheap good internet. Then compare the prices here with prices in Western-European countries. I'm not sure what's the cost/mbitpersec ratio out there. edit: looked up the cheapest and most expensive internet packages from a popular internet provider. Cheapest: 15Mbs for 17,4 euros. Most expensive: 150Mbs for 33,5 euros.
Anyway, you are like 10+ years late to call internet a luxurious thing, everyone has it. (though funnily enough, we became world famous for a week for our government wanting to tax it, but after riots and the European parliament telling them to fuck themselves, they changed their minds, hah! what a marvelous victory for us, eh? you folks must be jelly)
So, in the end, you don't buy the albums because you're poor or you don't buy them because they will only collect dust? because these are two totally different things. I mean, one thing is saying, I can't spend the money on the albums and other is saying I don't want to spend the money. Also, Internet is a luxury, I can tell you since a lot of people in Spain doesn't have it.
I don't know his personal circumstances but, he wen't to another (near) country for a show of one of his favourite bands. Being there, he bought the latest CD so they could sign on it whithout having to think about it so much (and the dust collect argument doesn't seem to have stopped him). As for internet, I can say that poor people here in Spain doesn't have the internet, as they do not own smartphones and other luxury things, because internet is not necessary for a living, so it's obviously a luxury item (as they are cds, I must add).
Jester Slave
Narcissist
No, I choose my method of supporting the band by attending their show. Yes, it was a win-win situation, because I enjoyed it a lot, while if I were to just buy their cd (which I also did, but I know I'm due to buy at least 3 other records from them, as I mentioned earlier) it would be a lose-win situation.
Your biggest problem with my views is that my way of supporting the band came from a selfish reason, and you conveniently ignore the fact that i still supported them.
I'm not sure how would that disqualify me from being a fan, but It's an interesting question. What if someone only buys CDs? What if someone only goes to concerts? What is someone loves them since LS, made a lot of people to listen to them, but did not spend a single cent on them? Also, how many CDs you have to buy to be called a fan? One is clearly not the answer based on your flip out on me, but you mocked the guy who owns SC and ASOP, so I suppose two is not enough either. But what if he would've said he owns TJR and Colony? Would that 2 make someone a fan, while having 2 newer material does not?
While part of this analogy is to present how silly you sound when you judge people by the amount of CDs they own, it's actually interesting if you think about some of the questions I put there.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
Whaaaat? The show was in Hungary, where I live. But yes, I spent like 50 euros that day (if I include the price of the ticket as well) which is like 5 IF albums.
But here's another thing that might confuse you. You know I love NIN, and I almost spent a shitton of money on watching them in Austria, despite only owning one record from them as well. The overall cost would've been a number from which I could almost afford all of their studio albums. Why would I've gone to one show instead of buying up all their record? Because I really like them, and when they announce that they are officially finished with ever touring again, I want to have no regrets. I can always buy cds, but I can't turn back time to witness an amazing show.
As for internet, I dunno. I know almost no one who doesn't have it (homeless and old people excluded), while I don't know many folks who have an amazing collection of original disks.
diablo42
New Metal Member
- Nov 6, 2014
- 16
- 0
- 1
So, the no money problem was an excuse. Let me explain this again. You can support by attending the shows, by buying their music or doing both things. I try to do both if I can. But, for the people like you who thinks that going to one show is supporting the band, I'm going to explain the easy way. No music sales, no record company, no new album and, probably, no tour, since nowadays, when you sign with a company, they pay some of the costs from the tour and, of course, they do all the promotion. Again I encourage you to tell the boys of the band how much you support them by not nuying their music, they're going to be very happy about that.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
You are talking in absolutes. Like, if I don't buy an album, they will have 0 record sale. Should I start ranting about what would happen with the band if no one ever went to their shows?
Bands collect much more money from shows than records. Why do you think bands can still be alive, when even some big hits are only selling 100-200k copies compared to the MILLIONS they used to. It's because they tour and the ticket prices are expensive as fuck. Not to mention once you are there you might or might not spend money on overpriced merchandises.
Linkin Park's latest album was sold 230k+ in the US. That's like all the IF records combined sale there. Linkin Park's first album was sold 10 fucking MILLION times in the US. Does that mean they get no support? Hell no, they do three shows and pretty much more people attend than how many times their latest album was bought, not to mention the ticket prices must be over the roof.
Do you think Linkin Park is threatened to be fired from Warner Bros? Hell no.
I can not even fathom how much IF gets after a show. Even in Hungary, the shittiest, most unqualified joke bands, who do like a 100 shows a year ask for ~350 euros. These are not professional bands, they are just singing popular songs to the old people or the shitfaced drunk teens. Basically they are amateurs, not even in the Hungarian music scene.
Now take a great big fucking jump and estimate how much IF, a well-established band, knowing to attract tons of folks who will pay 3 times as much for a beer (great for the hosts) and will pay 25 euros for a fucking shirt with an IF logo (even better for the band).
Tell me if you have an estimate. Wait, don't tell me just now, because you have to remember there are festival shows as well, where every band goes pussy mode, and it's nothing but the greatest greatest hits from their catalog. They probably get at least two or three times as more money than for a regular show (maybe much more, i dunno), because the hosts need headliners who will help them sell their super expensive tickets. Not to mention festivals attract waaaaaaaaay more people than regular shows.
So no, IF couldn't give a shit if I were told them before the show that I'm not really an avid cd buyer. As long as they keep seeing my face at shows (even if just every 2 years, when they come here) they can be sure about two things:
1. I like them
2. I pay them more than someone who "just" buys their cd
Even if Sony dropped them, record labels would be at each other's throats to sign IF, not that they need a record label at all. They might as well go independent and release their upcoming albums on the internet for free. Who the fuck cares until you are invited to Wackens and other great festival shows?
And yay, finally a relevant NIN stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFXivarypE4 - now, how much of a "hero" he is, is debateable, if I had as much money as him or the members of IF and I was facing thousands of people who just spent a shitton of money for me, I could be easily just as generous as him. He also released a studio album for free.
Radiohead also released one of their album via the internet and you could pay whatever you wanted. If you wanted to pay nothing at all, that was an option as well. I heard that band is still pretty successful.
You see, me not buying up at least half of their discography will hardly cripple them, especially if I'm willing to go to their shows. I get that, I'm a greedy bastard and you have a problem with that, but let's not blow it out of proportion, like I'm ruining the band or doesn't even like them.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
Now that you said that it's obviously true, lol. Not sure where were you living while record companies have been degraded to - at least for bigger artists - assistants to the bands in the past decade.
They used to have enormous power. You were nothing without a record label, and in cases of some bands, they abused it to no end, or at least tried to. They could walk in on you and tell you to play this or that kind of music, because that will sell records. Saying "fuck you" was very risky, because in an industry where a good record could be sold MILLIONS in quantity, you absolutely needed a record company, otherwise you'd have zero exposure. TV? Controlled by the music televisions and good luck getting your music videos played without a record label chipping in. Radio? Same. Internet? It WAS a luxury back then, so you would've never dared to pull a shit like Radiohead did later on. It was just too risky.
But things have changed. If you can afford to have shoes without 2 gaping holes on them, then you can afford internet as well. You have access to youtube and other media sites where music can be promoted to absolutely free. Even the worst internet package has a decent download speed if it comes to only downloading a music record. Album sales also became so much more not relevant and it's funny you would try to argue that when big bands literally came from million copies sold to a few 100k. Why do you think LP has even more money with that ridiculously looking 200k+ sales compared to their initial 10 million? It's because a fucking ticket in Vienna costs 88 euros, three times more than the IF ticket I bought. Out-fucking-rageous, but people will buy. It doesn't matter if they bought the new album or not, they downloaded it anyway, so if they like the stuff they will come. I looked up their latest album on best buy, it's 10$ but it says it's on sale so let's say it's 10 euros. So a concert ticket is 90, that makes one ticket holder paying up for NINE albums. They need 25667 people to go to their shows (not talking about festivals, those are extra $$$$$) to get the same amount of money as they got from their record sales. I think you've browsed youtube enough to at least see one live show from any band in the US to know how big fucking arenas do they have. Oh yes, that 25k plus people is a joke for a band like that.
Also, back in the day, if you wanted people to go to your shows, you needed the record sales, how else would people know about your music? All right, music tv playing your hits helped them, but not enough to buy a ticket, only to make you buy a cd. Today, big bands doesn't even need exposure. Hang out that IF is coming and bam, tickets sold, who the fuck cares if they even have a new record out? As for newer bands, they go indie and advertise themselves on the internet and it's super effective among youngsters. "Hey dude, have you heard this band? Check them out: *youtube/soundcloud link*". BAAAAAM, you might have another favorite band, without spending a single cent on them. Still, the band is very fucking happy, because you just became a potential show-attendant.
Oh, and why do you think song-by-song (legal) download was introduced, like apple store? Because record sales dropped like crazy and lost their crucial place in the business, but this way, they can milk money from us for sure. You like one song from SC and you think the rest of them are utter shit? Np mate, for 0.99 you can download that song instead of not paying us anything, may god bless your soul!
I'm really sorry to break it to you, but it's 2014, and right now, the so called music business is that a 16 years old kid can make 3 electronic music, upload them to youtube, get shitton of attention and get invited to music festivals where 100k people will dance mindlessly to your shit.
edit: obviously pop artists still care a lot about record sales, because their music is basically the only thing keeping cds from becoming total jokes.
edit2: Metallica hasn't released a new album for 6 years now. I wonder if they can still have enough money to eat properly. And holy shit, I did not even know they went independent from record labels! How will they make any money from now on?!
For once try to think with tour head ( I mean the one over your shoulders not the one between your legs) and ask yourself: how is then that they sign with a record label when they could gain more money on their own? And please, try not to answer with a long and boring speech, that doesn't make you look smarter.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
For one, a record label deals with all the boring stuff instead of them. You don't have a secretary because you are incapable of making 20 phone calls a day, but it's not what you want to do. Also, a record label is probably more experienced in promoting and stuff, so it's very very convenient to have them. No, your life does not depend on the record sales but I never said you wouldn'T want to sell as many as you can.
Long posts doesn't necessarily make me look smarter, but if I have a shitton of evidence to prove you are on the wrong track, I might as well bring them up. I'll work on making them less boring though!
