How much time does each metal genre have left before it becomes so stagnant it disapp

[speed]

How much time does each metal genre have left before it becomes so stagnant it disappears?


Thrash: I think its pretty much through--the whole death thrash thing is about shot, and I cant see what else can be done to the genre.

Black Metal: Seems some bands are doing some interesting diverse shit, like Solefald, Arcturus, Deathspell, even that Velvet Cacoon is at least different. Still how many Darkthrone, Dimmu clones are there?

Death Metal: I think it is also through. Nile and Melechesh put an ethnic twist on DM; cryptopsy some interesting technical innovations.

Power: Nothing, and I mean nothing new since Painkiller if you ask me.

Prog: Again, almost nothing new in 10 years. Pain of Salvation maybe.

Melodeath: SO dead, that the best thing released in 5 years is a Dark Tranquility album that is nothing more than a return to the past.

Other threads have established Doom/stoner is incredibly innovative right now, and I think the whole core scene of Mastodon/isis/Neurosis, is the most creative and innovative of all the heavy musics. But the rest of the genres are dead.

 

[Captain Beard]

I think you're too cynical and picky.

 

[KILL TULLY]

damn you depressed or somthing mate?

 

[JayKeeley]

Well some of the best albums of this year so far are Primordial, Novembers Doom, and Moonsorrow; the new Dark Tranquillity is cool, their best stuff in years; the last Angra album is probably the greatest power metal album of the last five years (why that guitar duo aren't glorified in every guitar magazine is beyond me); I hear the new Nokturnal Mortum is phenomenal; Drudkh, Orphaned Land, Mar de Grises, Wolverine, Into Eternity, etc...

...seems like the scene is pretty vibrant to me. None of those rely on -core, although I do agree that the new Isis is stunning. I'd also like to hear the latest Neurosis.

With that said, metal fan turnover is pretty quick: 3-4 years and there's a new breed of fan. The only thing constant are the long timers. We're about hitting that timeframe since I've been on UM so I figure people will be dropping out and n00bs will be coming in.

Who here is next to drop out of metal I wonder? We should start one of those Dead Pool thingies...I suppose we can assume BWD dropped out already so he shouldn't be included.

 

[lurch70]

i guess you don't go to live shows. IMHO opinion the scene is the most alive it has been in 15 years.

 

[NAD]

*thinks back to my post-core thread*

Thrash is done, has been for 15 years.

Black metal has some interesting stuff still happening, although there isn't much originality anymore. Solefald is a good example of black metal evolving in a positive way, but I don't really consider them black metal now.

Death metal needs more groups like Nile and Mithras.

Power I wouldn't know because I don't pay attention to it. They all sound the same.

Prog metal isn't progressive and never has been. This stuff all sounds like power metal to me.

Melodeth has been working backwards since the first album was released, and real melodic death seems to have hit it's peak in the late 90's but there are still decent acts around.

Other threads have established Doom/stoner is incredibly innovative right now, and I think the whole core scene of Mastodon/isis/Neurosis, is the most creative and innovative of all the heavy musics. But the rest of the genres are dead.

I completely agree.

 

[JayKeeley]

I'm not getting this!! You have to be more specific because burning out on metal does not mean the metal scene is lacking in anyway does it? What am not understanding here....

I'm not even sure if Black Metal is supposed to evolve, but either way what is Drudkh, Blut Aus Nord, Bergthron, Deathspell Omega, Velvet Cacoon, and Hate Forest?

And Power Metal all the same???????????????????? Come on, are you saying this shit to provoke?? At least make the effort to hear a sample!! How does Nevermore sound like Blind Guardian sound like Angra sound like Manticora sound like Skyforger sound like Ensiferum?

Prog metal - what about Wolverine and Dead Soul Tribe? Man, you guys should listen to Ark's Burn the Sun NOW!

Actually if there's any genre that sounds all the same, it's got to be death metal. Yes, there are differences but too subtle, and they lack vocal melodies that would emphasize further differentiation.

I do agree that 80% of metal is derivative rubbish, but to keep saying that the only metal worthwhile is -core and stoner just seems to lack any substance.

Finally, what was the point of starting another thread on the same subject we all discussed just 2 days ago??? x 10000

 

[Hell Mike]

Why do you think thrash is dead? We have, alive and rocking my stockings: Testament, Kreator, Destruction, Exodus, Kreator, Sodom, Infernäl Mäjesty, Death Angel, Militant, Toxic Holocaust, Nocturnal, Corrupt, Bestial Desecration, Chainsaw, Witchburner, Vexed, Sauron, Oppression, Flesh Made Sin, Drunkard, Decimator and MANY MANY MORE. Thrash never dies!

 

[JayKeeley]

I think we're misunderstanding these threads. "How long does it take for a genre to disappear?". Has that ever happened? I guess the question could be asked on why metal itself hasn't died, and you'd get your answer right there.

Also, with the One Inch Man, one minute he says genres are gay, and metal is metal, but to explain his point, he's dissected metal into all the subgenres!!

So I am left confused, simply because metal cannot deny, and that therefore carries through to all its sub-genres.

Class dismissed.

 

[SonOfNun]

Why do you think thrash is dead? We have, alive and rocking my stockings: Testament, Kreator, Destruction, Exodus, Kreator, Sodom, Infernäl Mäjesty, Death Angel, Militant, Toxic Holocaust, Nocturnal, Corrupt, Bestial Desecration, Chainsaw, Witchburner, Vexed, Sauron, Oppression, Flesh Made Sin, Drunkard, Decimator and MANY MANY MORE. Thrash never dies!

And this can be said for every genre. None of them are stagnant and none of them are going to disappear. There are ALWAYS solid acts in metal in every section of it and the whole "if it isn't 100% original and throwing in this and that" thing is getting old. Solid music is solid music, who gives a fuck if they're rehashing old ideas if they kick ass while doing so? There are 13058252495724698367356 bands I still need to explore that have made music either 30 years ago or yesterday. We need to look back at the great music we're all missing instead of acting as if everything has already been done and metal is doomed.

 

[Hell Mike]

So we all agree that speed should find out what cyanide tastes like?

 

[NAD]

I'm not getting this!! You have to be more specific because burning out on metal does not mean the metal scene is lacking in anyway does it? What am not understanding here....

What I meant in my other thread, and what I think speed means with this one, is that nothing new and creative is happening in the present. I'm certainly not going to stop picking up mid-90's melodic death metal metal (actually I'm pretty content with what I have), but since that genre sucks ass now I'm not going to even give new releases a look unless forced to. I have no use to get a bunch of clone albums just because they were released in 2004, I'd rather rather listen to Velvet Creation and Heartwork. So I do.

Also, with the One Inch Man, one minute he says genres are gay, and metal is metal, but to explain his point, he's dissected metal into all the subgenres!!

I know, and all I can say is "I suck" to that. I only used speed's outlines for genre thingies, because they are all just metal.

I'm not even sure if Black Metal is supposed to evolve, but either way what is Drudkh, Blut Aus Nord, Bergthron, Deathspell Omega, Velvet Cacoon, and Hate Forest?

Yeah, I'll have to agree that black metal does have lots of new and creative stuff happening, but I can only take so much of this style of music, therefore I don't go nutso buying up everything I can from said persuasion. Drudkh, BAN, Deathspell Omega, and Hate Forest are pretty spectacular though.

And Power Metal all the same???????????????????? Come on, are you saying this shit to provoke?? At least make the effort to hear a sample!! How does Nevermore sound like Blind Guardian sound like Angra sound like Manticora sound like Skyforger sound like Ensiferum?

I only know Blind Guardian from that list, probably one of 3 power metal bands I'm familiar with. But what I do know DOES sound the same to me! Never listen to anything I have to say about this genre, you know this already!

Prog metal - what about Wolverine and Dead Soul Tribe? Man, you guys should listen to Ark's Burn the Sun NOW!

Yeah I like Wolverine and DST but I don't consider that stuff progressive, I didn't realize those were part of that subgenre. Ugh, do I HATE that label "prog metal," I've yet to hear anything progressive from ANY of those bands, even the ones that I like!

but to keep saying that the only metal worthwhile is -core and stoner just seems to lack any substance.

The only NEW material as of late, primarily yes. For the most part, the only bands that I think "damn, this is something new AND good" come from the -core and stoner persuasions. Finding new and refreshing shit to me is VERY important to me, always has been.

Finally, what was the point of starting another thread on the same subject we all discussed just 2 days ago??? x 10000

I'm getting deja vu with this post.

 

[speed]

Yeah I suppose what I am trying to say, is how much longer will it take for new bands to just give up with each of the aforementioned genres; i.e. they cant do anything new, its all been done. Hence, the genre doesnt die, it just becomes totally stagnant and slowly whithers away.

Sure there are some great bands, but have they really changed the broader genre; are they not working within the same narrow confines? I am drawing upon past experiences of art and music, where the art/music becomes so confined and static there is no place to evolve; thus the genre or age disappears. Sure some of it will survive, Oldies rock and rockabilly is still around, Classic rock etc; but there is nothing left to do--its just old bands, playing their old songs, and if they do write new songs, theere is nothing in them that hasnt been done before.

I just have noticed in the last year or two, how unoriginal almost all metal is. I no longer can listen to a new death metal, or thrash band etc. without thinking I have heard this a thousand times before.

 

[speed]

And if I can take this one step further, all rock music is pretty much dying--with the exception of the new post modern rock trend of mum, explosions in the sky, godspeed, radiohead etc. The record sales for the last 5 years for rock have been atrocious. This year i think only Nickleback, 3 doors down, and Velvet Revolver broke platinum-- and I think two of them just barely did. I know downloading hurts, but the other genres are not dying this bad.

I know record sales maybe a poor indicator, but shit have you heard anything musically new in JEt, Nickleback, Korn, The Killers, Velvet Revolver etc, etc?

 

[speed]

and hey, its just something thats been on my mind for a while. If you disagree fine, Im just trying to get a decent discussion going.

 

[Hell Mike]

Everything has not been done in any of those genres, it's just that it mostly takes a good mind to a) spot what needs to be done, b) be able to do it and c) want to do it.

I am quite certain that downloading has not hurt metal, the underground in particular, quite the opposite.

 

[speed]

True, it does take a gifted mind, and there are some gifted minds that do create some excellent new music. But what gifted musician would take up thrash or death metal? He can do nothing. He can add nothing. WHy bother, unless he is a true genius?

 

[Hell Mike]

He probably CAN do lots of things, it's just that at least I don't see anything (radical or highly innovative) that needs to be done to thrash metal.

 

[speed]

Ok an example, maybe this will help, and then I will shut up.

No one tries to paint Renaissance, Baroque, Impressionist art anymore. No composer tries to recreate baroque classical. Why? Because there is nothing more to do. Doesnt mean we cant appreciate them, or even try to emulate them; but to create--that is impossible. Monet and Rembrandt, Bach and Wagner have perfected it; they went as far as it will go.

Now today, no new band tries to create something new in Blues or Classic Rock, or thrash metal--they merely emulate to support and admire the style, or to make money. We have Reign in Blood and Rust in Peace; they are to be admired, but thrash or any of these other metal genres can really go no further. They have been mastered already.

 

[Hell Mike]

I see your point just like I have all along, it's just that I disagree. Then again, if someone wrote the koolest baroque music (praise thelord) of all time tomorrow we'd probably never know and me most likelywouldn't get it played. Things CAN be done with old stuff, it just mostly isn't.