How Much You Bench?

[Doom]

My own program is a bit like this:
1st day: pectoral/biceps/triceps
2nd day: back/shoulders
3rd day: legs
4th day: biceps/triceps

At each session, I do abs

This is nearly exactly what I do, except I only lift weights 3 times a week so ignore that 4th day. But the other 3 days are what I do. I've been wondering recently whether I should be trying to train 4 times a week, but I figured the rest I get in between sessions was good for me (plus I get lazy).

3rd comment: about the protein shakes: I'm somewhat against it. IMO, you should try to get your proteins through your diet. I eat a lot of fish, tuna, peanut butter and such. Call this superstition, but I think protein shakes are nowhere near as good as a good diet

This is what I have always thought, and I try to follow a good diet anyway so it's not really bothered me. I just wondered whether the shakes might be a good idea on top of already eating well.

 

[Krilons Resa]

Protein shakes should be a staple in any training regime. If not for anything, definitely for postworkout along with high glycemic carbs like dextrose or maltodextrin. The absorption rate is MUCH quicker, which is mandatory PWO, along with the high GI carbs to induce an insulin spike to shuttle the glycogen and such to your depleted muscles. Whey protein is the highest biologically available prtotein so go with that. Consider a powder with high amounts of Whey Isolates. Also, if you can eat enough meals/calories without taking in any liquid food, more power to you but its hard to believe you are getting in enough calories to grow. And listen to Zod's post too, good info. Sorry if this post is quick and scattered, I have to go to work like NOW.

 

[Krilons Resa]

First: Zod, when you mention "isolation" exercices, what do you mean? I'm not familiar with the English training vocabulary, so I need to have things cleared up a bit. Is benching considered an "isolation" exercice?



About creatin: I don't know if the subject was aborted, but creatin helps developping your muscles, true, but there are no researches about the long term effects of using such products, so I would suggest not to try it.

Steroids: you produce steroids naturally from cholesterol. Cool huh?

Didnt read the entire psot...but really quick...

Compound ex. are movements that require assistance from other, usually smaller muscle groups. Example: bench press, deadlifts, squats, dumbell presses, etc.... Isolation ex are ex that try to isolate a certain muscle group ala concentration curls, preacher curls, leg extensions, etc etc....

Creatine doesnt as much help develop muscles, as it shuttles water to the intramusular cells and keeps ADP & ATP high good for explosive, anaerobic activity. Its found naturally in red meat and some fishes. It never really did much for me though.

Also, cholesterol naturally produces "steroids"? Thats rubbish. Steroids woudl be considered anything exogeneous anyways, so the term doesnt makes sense the way you are saying it.

There are studies that support high cal diets and sat fats to increase natty test levels though.

once again soprry for the quick,. scattered post....i need to leave.

 

[General Zod]

First: Zod, when you mention "isolation" exercices, what do you mean? I'm not familiar with the English training vocabulary, so I need to have things cleared up a bit. Is benching considered an "isolation" exercice?

Doomcifer's explanation on "isolation" exercises was right on. Just to expound a bit, while squats and bench are obviously compound exercises, there's also those in between movements. For instance, standing dumbells aren't traditionally considered a "compound" movement. However, they aren't an isolation exercise either. The equivalent isolation version, of the standing dumbell curl, might be dumbell preacher curls. When doing this movement, the only exercise engaged is the bicep. whereas with a standing DB curl, you also engage your shoulder, and your back to a lesser degree.

Doomcifer's comments about post-work out drinks were also dead on.

Second: well, not really a question, but a comment about what you said earlier about letting your muscles rest.

What I meant was, to train each muscle group once a week, and only once. For instance, most people wouldn't do squats twice a week. That said, there are as many different theories as there are body builders. And in the end, do what works for you.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, especially the part where you said to train one group of muscle per week. My own program is a bit like this:
1st day: pectoral/biceps/triceps (super-7)
2nd day: back/shoulders
3rd day: legs
4th day: biceps/triceps

Your pairings are a bit unique. That said, if it works for you, and you're happy with your results, that's all that matters.

At each session, I do abs and I TRY to do cardio (emphasis on try cause doing cardio is so fucking boring imo, even with an ipod).

I assume at the end of the session?

3rd comment: about the protein shakes: I'm somewhat against it. IMO, you should try to get your proteins through your diet. I eat a lot of fish, tuna, peanut butter and such. Call this superstition, but I think protein shakes are nowhere near as good as a good diet, even though, chemically, the proteins are supposed to be the exact same molecule as the proteins we find in food. Heck, when you've done a lot of chemistry, you'll notice there is no distinction between natural molecules and synthesis molecules, they're all the same thing.

You're a 100% correct. The ideal is to get your proteins, and even your calories, through natural sources. However, sometimes it's not possible to get enough. And the difference between natural and those found in protein shakes is almost negligible.

...but there are no researches about the long term effects of using such products, so I would suggest not to try it.

That's not true. Creatin is the most researched body building supplememnt ever. It's been in use for decades.

Zod

 

[Guthrum]

eating tons of protein does cause swampass. i knew a dude on the atkins diet and he would leave minefield farts everywhere

They just float where they're left, but once someone bumps into them and ruptures their bubble, it's all over.

 

[AsModEe]

Didnt read the entire psot...but really quick...
Also, cholesterol naturally produces "steroids"? Thats rubbish. Steroids woudl be considered anything exogeneous anyways, so the term doesnt makes sense the way you are saying it.

I probably said it wrong..... steroid hormones are coming from cholesterol.

Example: Cholesterol --> Pregnelonone --> Progesterone (which is a steroid hormone)

These kind of reactions need several ******ylations requiring cytochrome P-450, oxygene and NADPH, forming of double links, etc.

I think the kind of steroid hormone we're looking at are the glucocorticoïdes (french word).

Here's, roughly, how cortisol is produced:

Cholesterol --> Pregnenolone --> Progesterone --> Cortisol

And if you look at the molecular structures of these hormones, you can see a cholesterol group in there. It's actually 90% of the molecule.

edit: found a picture of a cortisol molecule

And here's a picture of a cholesterol molecule

 

[AsModEe]

That's not true. Creatin is the most researched body building supplememnt ever. It's been in use for decades.

Zod

Well, I know there are several researches about it, but I never heard of long term effects of creatin. Do you know if there are any?

And yes, I do abs at the end of each session!

 

[Six-winged Seraph]

double my weight

 

[dorian gray]

I'm finding some of the Quebecer's translations confusing but he's right in that glucocorticoids are made from cholesterol. Not to say "start pounding cholesterol" but it's just interesting.

BTW, cortisol is a catabolic hormone. It's released during stress.

 

[AsModEe]

I'm finding some of the Quebecer's translations confusing but he's right in that glucocorticoids are made from cholesterol. Not to say "start pounding cholesterol" but it's just interesting.

BTW, cortisol is a catabolic hormone. It's released during stress.

yeah I didnt really waste time on the translation... im sorta in a hurry. Actually, Im going to train lol. Youre right about the catabolic hormone too. Ill edit my post later to make a better translation, but these words can be a bit of a pain in the ass to translate.

 

[dorian gray]

No worries; perhaps we have different names for certain hormones or something.

 

[Krilons Resa]

Cortisol is the devil.

 

[General Zod]

Well, I know there are several researches about it, but I never heard of long term effects of creatin. Do you know if there are any?

I've never heard of any long term effects, so long as it's cycled as directed.

And yes, I do abs at the end of each session!

I think what I was asking is, do you do your cardio before or after you lift?

Just curious, how do you work your abs? What sort of exercises are you doing?

Zod

 

[Krilons Resa]

Imho, you shouldnt train your abs too much. Sure you want a strong midsection for back support, well-developed, etc...BUT you also dont want you're ab muscles too big, or it may be counter-productive, aesthectically speaking. You wanna have ripped abs? Drop your bodyfat% into single digits through dieting. All the abwork in the world wont do it and there is no such thing as localized fat loss unless you are shooting hGH (to a certain extent) or pgf2a (FUCK that).

 

[AsModEe]

I've never heard of any long term effects, so long as it's cycled as directed.

I think what I was asking is, do you do your cardio before or after you lift?

Just curious, how do you work your abs? What sort of exercises are you doing?

Zod

Usually after I lift. Since I work my abs alone, I use a big balloon and lift my legs in the air to work my lower abs. Then, I do normal abs (demi-redressement assis, I don't know how it's called in English) immediatly after, to work my higher abs. After doing this 3 times, I use some some kind of inclined bench to work my obliques, 3 times again. You're probably going to tell me I can do better exercices and I agree, but like the person that posted before me (forgot the name), I don't want to have too powerful abs.

 

[General Zod]

Imho, you shouldnt train your abs too much. Sure you want a strong midsection for back support, well-developed, etc...BUT you also dont want you're ab muscles too big, or it may be counter-productive, aesthectically speaking. You wanna have ripped abs? Drop your bodyfat% into single digits through dieting. All the abwork in the world wont do it and there is no such thing as localized fat loss unless you are shooting hGH (to a certain extent) or pgf2a (FUCK that).

Wow... you and I are very much on the same page. I always shake my head when people think they're going to get well defined abs by simply training them hard. As you said, it's all about a body fat percentage of 10% or less.

It seems to me, most people train their abs incorrectly, in one of two ways:

1. High reps
2. Frequency

People seem to either work their abs every day or do 200 sit ups. I always want to ask these people, why they insist on treating their abs like it's a completely unique muscle. No one would do 200 curls or would squat daily. Yet people see no issue in training their abs in this manner.

Zod

 

[grazim]

Can one of you recommend a good book for basic weight training? Nothing too fancy, just something that really lays a good foundation for understanding how to do this stuff safely and effectively.

 

[dorian gray]

People seem to either work their abs every day or do 200 sit ups. I always want to ask these people, why they insist on treating their abs like it's a completely unique muscle. No one would do 200 curls or would squat daily. Yet people see no issue in training their abs in this manner.

Zod

First off, a HUGE @ working out abdominal muscles. Gayest thing ever. Although I will concede Doomie's point about having a solid midsection. I probably wouldn't have the back problems I have now if I woulda trained my midsection properly.

That said, Zod's quote above owns this entire thread.

 

[dorian gray]

(demi-redressement assis, I don't know how it's called in English) .

"Crunch"

 

[Necromunchkin]

Training abs reduced the majority of my back problems, and really boosted my ability in squats. I train them twice a week, day one is three sets, heavy, eight to twelve reps depending on the cycle. Day two is three sets, moderate effort, up to fifteen reps. And they are excellently defined below the nice thick layer of protective body fat in my mid-section *cough*