how would you save physical media?????

[Diabolik]

Okay.....since jason claims no one is buying physical product anymore. What do you think labels need to do to get more people buying thier product?

We have seen labels release limited edition versions, 2 disc versions, dvd bonus versions. While these are cool...it isnt making people race out and pick up CD's.



Myself....I think it would be interesting to see a label try a cheap route. Maybe test the grounds for a cheap version of the release. Say something like 6 or 7 bucks. Basically you get the CD in the jewelcase and just the cover on it. No linear notes, not bonus stuff. This would be for people more curious on checking some bands out.

Labels could also do the regular and limited deluxe versions as well for fans who still buy physical media. While all the pressings are still the same there isnt any extra cost.

Curious to see if the cheap versions would sell good. I think touring bands would make a killing. I get tired of going to shows and seeing bands charge 15 bucks for a CD. I understand how it all works but the average person isnt going to buy it there.

I do think price is the biggest reason why people stopped buying. Also with the internet now people are downloading stuff as well.

This could also go into the other thread where people are tired of being burned by lackluster releases. This is where I think the 6 dollar CD cheap version would be great. You wont feel as bad spending 6 bucks on a CD that only has a few good songs and filler as much as spending double that.

what do you all think???

 

[SteelFireRecs]

Okay.....since jason claims no one is buying physical product anymore. What do you think labels need to do to get more people buying thier product?

We have seen labels release limited edition versions, 2 disc versions, dvd bonus versions. While these are cool...it isnt making people race out and pick up CD's.



Myself....I think it would be interesting to see a label try a cheap route. Maybe test the grounds for a cheap version of the release. Say something like 6 or 7 bucks. Basically you get the CD in the jewelcase and just the cover on it. No linear notes, not bonus stuff. This would be for people more curious on checking some bands out.

Labels could also do the regular and limited deluxe versions as well for fans who still buy physical media. While all the pressings are still the same there isnt any extra cost.

Curious to see if the cheap versions would sell good. I think touring bands would make a killing. I get tired of going to shows and seeing bands charge 15 bucks for a CD. I understand how it all works but the average person isnt going to buy it there.

I do think price is the biggest reason why people stopped buying. Also with the internet now people are downloading stuff as well.

This could also go into the other thread where people are tired of being burned by lackluster releases. This is where I think the 6 dollar CD cheap version would be great. You wont feel as bad spending 6 bucks on a CD that only has a few good songs and filler as much as spending double that.

what do you all think???

I think the only a disc and cover is way too risky for any label. Press 500 copies of that, and risk if anyone will buy it. Good booklets sell alot more cds and really give labels a name for themselves. Look at Stormspell for example, everything I always see when people talk about them besides the great quality of the music, is the fantastic looking layouts and booklets. I think that is a big draw for people.

I also dont see what you mean the single disc, and then the regular or deluxe editions wont have any extra cost...If one has a booklet then it is already more expensive than the one with just the disc and just the cover. Maybe im reading it wrong or not getting it?

Bands that charge $15 for a single disc is completely ridiculous, I wont buy it unless the band has blow my mind which has happened 2 times i think. I dont mind spending 10 or 12 on cd but once it goes above that, the packaging better be worth it and not a 4 page "book" let in a jewel case. I have many debates if it cost above $12, thats why i try not pricing too much above $12 in the distro. If its an import then yes it usually costs more so that explains itself.

I personally dont have any idea what physical media could replace cds. They tried flash drives and SD cards a few years ago and those failed miserably. And i think those were stupid, youre just paying for Mp3s again. I think the cd will be the last physical format for music, and i hope it never stops. And i really dont see it stopping for along time still in the world of underground metal.

 

[Justin G]

Okay.....since jason claims no one is buying physical product anymore. What do you think labels need to do to get more people buying thier product?

We have seen labels release limited edition versions, 2 disc versions, dvd bonus versions. While these are cool...it isnt making people race out and pick up CD's.



Myself....I think it would be interesting to see a label try a cheap route. Maybe test the grounds for a cheap version of the release. Say something like 6 or 7 bucks. Basically you get the CD in the jewelcase and just the cover on it. No linear notes, not bonus stuff. This would be for people more curious on checking some bands out.

Labels could also do the regular and limited deluxe versions as well for fans who still buy physical media. While all the pressings are still the same there isnt any extra cost.

Curious to see if the cheap versions would sell good. I think touring bands would make a killing. I get tired of going to shows and seeing bands charge 15 bucks for a CD. I understand how it all works but the average person isnt going to buy it there.

I do think price is the biggest reason why people stopped buying. Also with the internet now people are downloading stuff as well.

This could also go into the other thread where people are tired of being burned by lackluster releases. This is where I think the 6 dollar CD cheap version would be great. You wont feel as bad spending 6 bucks on a CD that only has a few good songs and filler as much as spending double that.

what do you all think???

I'm opposed to any lowering of quality (i.e. no liners). I think labels need to take a serious look at pricing if they want physical media to remain viable. If an MP3 album is going to cost $7.99, get the CD down to $9.99. Make it a slight enough difference that people are willing to drop a couple extra dollars on the full package.

Or they need to treat physical media as a collectors product. Bonus tracks that don't appear on iTunes (even though they'll end up online anyway), special packaging (think Kamelot's latest, which is a brilliant physical product), and the kind of vinyl/CD/shirt bundles that Nuclear Blast/Century Media do so well.

One more thing - I've always been mystified at the difference in how older titles are priced. For DVDs and Blu-rays, the new release price is always high, but as years pass it gradually decreases, often to bargain level. This never happens with older CDs. If I want to buy a 10-year old Paradise Lost CD, it's going to cost the same now as it did then.

 

[Justin G]

I personally dont have any idea what physical media could replace cds. They tried flash drives and SD cards a few years ago and those failed miserably. And i think those were stupid, youre just paying for Mp3s again. I think the cd will be the last physical format for music, and i hope it never stops. And i really dont see it stopping for along time still in the world of underground metal.

I think CDs are the last viable physical media format as well, and as a collector I'd love to see them continue. I think in metal, they probably will, but they'll eventually be like colored vinyl to the punk and hardcore scenes back in the day. A way to stay old school.

 

[dcowboys311]

Definitely agree that the 'disc-only' thing would fall flat. At that point, there's no real difference between downloading the mp3s and burning them and buying the disc. A big part of the appeal of physical format these days is that you have notes to look through, artwork to love, and something to hold.

Ultimately for physical product to survive, it needs to offer a substantially different experience than the mp3s do. It's just as easy to download a movie as it is to download an album, but people still pay to go to the movies because the experience is different. Same thing should happen for music -- a benefit that's impossible to download. No clue what new thing that might be.

I think a lot of people need to get over their expectation of selling thousands and thousands of copies of their buddy Joe's underground metal band. People like to give the black metal scene crap because 'OH they're only pressing 100 copies to be so kvlt and underground!!' and while, yeah, that does happen, a big part of it is being realistic -- just how many copies of this release will actually sell?

For vinyl fanatics, labels like The Crypt are a great example of how to do physical media right. As far as I know, they're all reissues, they're all fairly expensive (I think the cheapest one I've ever seen is $30-ish), but there's so much effort put into the product that it's worth every penny. I don't have many Crypt releases just because of the price, but I know the ones I do have are leagues above just about everything else in my collection. Ties into the 'collector' thing, but they sound great.

 

[Justin G]

It might also help if the bands and labels started encouraging people to stick with the physical product and embraced events like Record Store Day.

 

[Jasonic]

Agreed with the above.
A lower quality version would not do too well for major releases.
Full length downloads for bigger labels have become quite elaborate actually.
The resolutions of the digital booklets are top notch.

I really think it comes down to price.

I can only speak for myself but I simply can not afford to spend money on music like I did 10 years ago.

What has attracted me to physical releases are the preorders with things like t-shirts and such.
It helps force the consumer to commit early.

Finally, I never said NO ONE is buying physical product.
I am saying that many have converted to going 100% digital.

The physical medium will ALWAYS be a part of the underground music scene of all genres.
I just think as sales continue to decline, we will see bands explore other options.
(IE - releasing one or two songs at a time, self released CDRS, etc)

To get back to the original question as how to save it????

No one has had the answer, and certainly won't in this economy.

 

[dcowboys311]

I actually think, if an answer to this problem even exists, that it would be found in the current economy. If you can get people to buy something when money is tight, it's no problem at all to convince people to buy it when disposable income is higher.

T-shirts are always hit-or-miss with me, usually miss. Metal shirts are usually ugly or offensive so I don't wear them most of the time, only at shows, really. But they seem to work for getting people to buy records!

 

[Diabolik]

I actually think, if an answer to this problem even exists, that it would be found in the current economy. If you can get people to buy something when money is tight, it's no problem at all to convince people to buy it when disposable income is higher.

T-shirts are always hit-or-miss with me, usually miss. Metal shirts are usually ugly or offensive so I don't wear them most of the time, only at shows, really. But they seem to work for getting people to buy records!

nothing worse than having swear words on shirts....I always laugh because it is like...what am I going to wear this and if I do you come across like a typical Pantera knuckledragger fan who thinks he is cool.

So if bands were selling 6 dollar CD's at shows with just the CD and stuff you wouldnt buy it? I think it would do really good because if a band really impressed you at a show you literally could buy thier whole discography right there for cheap. Impaler did that in Chicago...it was just thier normal CD's but they had them all for 5 bucks. Almost everything they ever put out. Even DVD's were 5 bucks.

 

[Element_man]

But they seem to work for getting people to buy records!

You can't download a shirt, yet.

Let's not drop quality, please. I'll buy stuff at lower qualities when I'm buying demos and DIY released stuff and cassettes and shit like that, but I don't think releasing your album without liners and booklets is the way to go. Bands already do that, they do promo versions in slip-cases without the full booklet. If you're going to go that route you'd better be doing something a little extra otherwise I think. I don't like this whole "race to the bottom" mentality.

I like to look at Buried by Time and Dust's catalogue. They seem to sell out (or close to it) of their stuff regularly and their shit is the highest quality there is. Does anyone here own anything by these guys? My Solstice "New Dark Age" DLP is heavy enough to kill a small child with, the records and the case both. The packaging is gorgeous and a different colour from the CD, and the solo/title is foil-stamped. The booklet features exclusive liner notes written candidly and with great prejudice from the main man himself. ALL their shit is this cool.

And expensive as hell. Including shipping, I must have paid around $35 for it, no regrets. I don't exactly have a hugely disposable income either, I live away from home, I work, I pay bills. I paid a similar amount for my Atlantean Kodex double 10".

Here's how you save physical media: Make cool shit. capture the "vibe" of your band. Don't try to run before you can walk. Start with smaller stuff, and then build up. Market to your NICHE audience. Above all, make sure your band isn't complete crap...

EDIT: I guess I'm looking at this from a singular band's perspective and not the "big picture". But my opinions still stand

 

[Diabolik]

it is intersesting to see everyones thoughts on this. I figured Jason would be all over the cheap versions of the CD. I wonder if though since we are music buyers and people who actively seek out music and collect it are not wanting it to be lower quality and stuff. But I wonder how the average music fan would take the the same choices?

 

[Justin G]

it is intersesting to see everyones thoughts on this. I figured Jason would be all over the cheap versions of the CD. I wonder if though since we are music buyers and people who actively seek out music and collect it are not wanting it to be lower quality and stuff. But I wonder how the average music fan would take the the same choices?

Screw the average music fan. They're not buying metal in the first place.

 

[Jasonic]

Why would I be all over cheap versions????
I primarily listen to music on MP3.

For me when it comes to physical product, I am mostly interested in rarities.
If it is of lower quality, then that is fine.

I am glad you brought up the Impaler situation.
Nothing is worse than when bands live charge anything over $10 for a CD.
That is 100% absurd.
If it is a rarity or something that is one thing.
Bands should be looking to completely sell out of their merchandise as this is how they make $$$$$.
Its not like they are paying their label MORE than $10 for their copies.
You would think they would want to sell as much as possible.

I suppose some bands look at the simple economic equation, but come on.
I can see maybe $12 or something, since they know the fans have that "high" of just experiencing a band live and want to get something immediately.
Still though, nothing is worse when you see bands selling back catalog which they have had for YEARS for $12 to $15.

 

[Jasonic]

Screw the average music fan. They're not buying metal in the first place.

Average music fans have never cared about the packaging and are certainly downloading more than purchasing physical product. You need proof? Go to any Best Buy and notice that their CD inventory is less than half of what it was 5 to 10 years ago. Furthermore, with ITUNES, they are just getting what songs they want anyhow.

I don't think the average Demi Lovato fan really cares to read the liner notes which list the 20 people it takes to write one of her songs. Sadly, I have many DISNEY related CDs and always read the liner notes to check the production. Its amazing how many people it takes to write some of those songs.

 

[Diabolik]

it is crazy when looking at Best buy for example.....even thier movie section is very weak. I used to get all my stuff there movie wise. As crazy as it sounds they carried tons of rare horror movies / underground stuff there, and very cheap too. From what I heard from one of the labels who put stuff out is that Best Buy cut off all the smaller stuff and went with all main stream stuff. I think in the end it hurt them on DVD sales because you can still go in there and get a copy of any big action film that no one bought but all the good horror stuff is gone. Horror fans are like crazed music fans....they will buy. You literally had to go every tuesday there to get the new movies since they would sell out that day. They would never restock either. I never get that they didnt pick up on this and run with it for a while.

And yes Jason, I do understand how the system works. ( beating you to the chase with your wisdom. )

 

[Diabolik]

Why would I be all over cheap versions????
.

because every time we used to go CD shopping you would always say things were to expensive and not buy anything.

 

[nomisofsiman]

Or they need to treat physical media as a collectors product. Bonus tracks that don't appear on iTunes (even though they'll end up online anyway), special packaging (think Kamelot's latest, which is a brilliant physical product), and the kind of vinyl/CD/shirt bundles that Nuclear Blast/Century Media do so well.

One more thing - I've always been mystified at the difference in how older titles are priced. For DVDs and Blu-rays, the new release price is always high, but as years pass it gradually decreases, often to bargain level. This never happens with older CDs. If I want to buy a 10-year old Paradise Lost CD, it's going to cost the same now as it did then.

I agree with both of these points. I think to get people to buy cds, they need to have something different from the mp3 format, which of course means the content actually needs to NOT be included in the mp3.

Justin, I never even thought about that in terms of the dvds and blu-rays. It makes perfect sense though and actually confuses me why it isn't really done with cds. THe only time I see it with CDs is if it's some major artist, which even then is rare.

 

[nomisofsiman]

I think one of the problems in saving the physical format is something Jason touched on. While I almost exclusively buy cds, I rarely listen to cds on their own unless I'm working out at home. The truth of the matter is that listening to it on iTunes or iPod is more convenient. You have your whole collection at your fingertips. Recently, my adapter for my iPod went out in my car and I had to get a new stereo to play my iPod. I can't tell you how annoying it is to change cds while driving.

This is why I think to save cds, there has to be something special about the releases or like Justin said, lower the prices after the disc has been out a while. The reason I still buy cds is I love the booklets and secondly, I like having something physical as I don't trust technology to always be in working order.

 

[Jasonic]

because every time we used to go CD shopping you would always say things were to expensive and not buy anything.

Yep, sorry, I don't pay full price for things you don't have to pay full price for.
CDs is one such item.
We have had this discussion many times years ago, on why I wouldn't always purchase stuff from Metal Haven, as one example.
You had no problem paying $14.99 for a new CD, because you wanted to see the store survive.

With so many online retailers including the label itself, I never saw the point in paying that price for a new cd. Sure, if it was something older and a bit harder to find, that is one thing.

I think too it also comes down to how much expendable money you have.
I know Bob you always like to say "the economy" is a cheap excuse as to why people aren't buying like they used to. This is a MAJOR reason (Aside from others such as illegal downloading which is probably at an equal level to or slightly less than the economic situation).

The funniest thing is that Bob admits in this thread that sales of the physical format is on the decline, yet gets pissed when I say it. Honestly my lonely friend, what it boils down to is that you are fighting a losing battle. It will always be around, but nothing is going to save it to make it more popular again. Why do you think Vinyl is so hip again? To a younger generation who missed it the first time, it is something new and exciting and different. There isn't really anything less hip these days than an album on CD. Its a fact. I like CDs as much as the next guy but you are fighting for something that's on the decline.

 

[Jasonic]

I think one of the problems in saving the physical format is something Jason touched on. While I almost exclusively buy cds, I rarely listen to cds on their own unless I'm working out at home. The truth of the matter is that listening to it on iTunes or iPod is more convenient. You have your whole collection at your fingertips. Recently, my adapter for my iPod went out in my car and I had to get a new stereo to play my iPod. I can't tell you how annoying it is to change cds while driving.

Yeah, a couple years ago when I first got an IPOD, what would drive me nuts is buying a CD, burning it right to ITUNES, and then putting it on my IPOD. I probably have 10 CDs that are open in my collection where I never even listened to the album ON CD. Like you I only spin CDs if I am working at home. Just depends on the consumer.