I fucken resent this...
- Thread starter Wolff
- Start date
I think many of you, Hoser and Soul Forlorn in the forefront, pretty much put it the way it is. The border between 'serious' and 'pop' music is always measured by the artist's will and conviction to the initial motives for creating music, and needless to say, these motives transcend every other notion of genres and their characteristics but the one of the artist. If a group shifts from heavy, pummelling metal to a lighter approach it is not necessarily to imply that they are short on cash and hence going 'pop', or if a brit-pop group suddenly turns the knobs to eleven and gets noticeably darker it does not necessarily mean that they are trying to be 'hard' as a reaction to a popular loss of interest in nerds playing playful pop muzak. The common listener disregards artistical development because of being unable to view any progression from the artist's viewpoint. If one is able to do so, it makes it possible to see whether it is pretense or desire that motivates that shift in style and sound. Take Amorphis, for instance: what we hear in the music post-"Elegy" is simplification and stress on atmosphere. Much of the sound is derivative from the group's penchant for legendary psychedelic prog rockers Kingston Wall, whose heritage is clearly audible in a number of Finnish artists. In Amorphis' case, it is not about not wanting more money and consequently 'selling out'. Selling out would be to hold on to the sound they laid out on "Tales from the thousand lakes"; compromising the inner need to develop for the sake of keeping their fans happy. The importance of those who listen to the music is invaluable, but if the fulfilment of their expectations is set as the number one priority, it is the same as changing the name to Loverfish or whatever, shaving up and giving Max Martin full right to do whatever he wants. The target audience is different and the income shifts greatly in quantity, but they've lost what was true in their music. As of now, Amorphis are venerable for their choice of style since it is very true to their standards. True to what it needs to be.
We have to remember that the human mind, heart and soul are not static. Our psyche is in unending dynamic movement, a factor that affects every single second of our existence. When there are constantly great, rapid shifts in this movement, we are less in touch with ourselves. If someone is a black metal penguin on one day and a flegmatic yo-brotha-rapper on another, it is evident that this person has not yet found the thing he/she truly wants to be. When different sides are compromized, put into harmony, we may except the dynamo to settle down slightly and set forth on a more steady path of change. And as much as this applies to human beings, it does so in the case of bands as well. Bands have their time of self-exploration and border definition, and many of those that already have record deals have not yet passed beyond that stage. It leads to the band sounding different each time. But if the band has found the most fit style, it is most likely that the progression may aspire from the basis that is set upon discovering that which is 'true'. It will never go away, regardless of the further changes that will take place - even if they are seemingly drastic. I suppose many fail to hear that Paradise Lost have had the same tone to their music for ages, from "Shades of god" if I remember correctly to "Host" (I have not heard the new one much.) Granted, maybe it is not as heavy as it was, but you can not put them down for forsaking their original idea. The melodies are still very much Paradise Lost, only the context has changed. Even Theatre of Tragedy has something left from their previous albums, regardless of how much they have actually been listening to Kraftwerk (I personally hear a very strong influence).
Bands, as people, tend to go through times of crises as well. The changes in music reflect what happens within the artist at a given time. Metallica for sure had something of an identity-crises with "Load". They managed to pull it off and did an interesting album, even if their latter material has not been worth much. Opeth had a critical time after "Morningrise". The list goes on and on.
Nevertheless, changes are bound to happen and we should remember to consider why they happen - human beings are not perfect at birth, being the result of genes, psyche and enviroment. Why should bands be any different?
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N/P: Jethro Tull - Aqualung
We have to remember that the human mind, heart and soul are not static. Our psyche is in unending dynamic movement, a factor that affects every single second of our existence. When there are constantly great, rapid shifts in this movement, we are less in touch with ourselves. If someone is a black metal penguin on one day and a flegmatic yo-brotha-rapper on another, it is evident that this person has not yet found the thing he/she truly wants to be. When different sides are compromized, put into harmony, we may except the dynamo to settle down slightly and set forth on a more steady path of change. And as much as this applies to human beings, it does so in the case of bands as well. Bands have their time of self-exploration and border definition, and many of those that already have record deals have not yet passed beyond that stage. It leads to the band sounding different each time. But if the band has found the most fit style, it is most likely that the progression may aspire from the basis that is set upon discovering that which is 'true'. It will never go away, regardless of the further changes that will take place - even if they are seemingly drastic. I suppose many fail to hear that Paradise Lost have had the same tone to their music for ages, from "Shades of god" if I remember correctly to "Host" (I have not heard the new one much.) Granted, maybe it is not as heavy as it was, but you can not put them down for forsaking their original idea. The melodies are still very much Paradise Lost, only the context has changed. Even Theatre of Tragedy has something left from their previous albums, regardless of how much they have actually been listening to Kraftwerk (I personally hear a very strong influence).
Bands, as people, tend to go through times of crises as well. The changes in music reflect what happens within the artist at a given time. Metallica for sure had something of an identity-crises with "Load". They managed to pull it off and did an interesting album, even if their latter material has not been worth much. Opeth had a critical time after "Morningrise". The list goes on and on.
Nevertheless, changes are bound to happen and we should remember to consider why they happen - human beings are not perfect at birth, being the result of genes, psyche and enviroment. Why should bands be any different?
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N/P: Jethro Tull - Aqualung
If you're into the older stuff then you probably wouldn't like newer Anathema as much. Personally I prefer the new style, although 'The Silent Enigma' is one of the greatest albums ever made (there are quite a lot of those, aren't there
)My favourite is Alternative 4. The beauty and sadness is incredible.
I don't get it. In that first part you seem to say that Opeth and Metallica's evolution was for the better, while MDB's was for worse (if by latest you meant latter). Then you say that the three bands you mentioned above wrote passionate and intense stuff and then threw it away, making you sick.
Explain?
D Mullholand
[project closed]
This was beautifully said.
I have to note that in the case of Paradise Lost, and it's evident on the new album, there's a conscious move toward commercial music - all of a sudden they started copying HIM and invited their producer to work on th record. Host was ok, not really as "accessible" as it seems to be, but now the band seems to be really Lost.
Metallica's "Load" was my first metal record actually !
Will I get ostracized for that ? I think it's more interesting than the black album, even if there's a distinct identity crisis. Sure, their later releases, from "Reload" onwards, do suck. "S&M", now, what the fuck was that ?
And for me, the best record MDB ever did was "34,788% Complete".
D Mullholand
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NP: Jethro Tull - Heavy Horses
Read what you wrote. It still makes absolutely no sense.
So you think Opeth's and Metallica's Load were evolution for the better while MDB's was for the worse, though they moved back to their roots later on.
Now you say that Opeth, Metallica, and MDB all fall into the category of bands that wrote passionate and intense stuff and then threw it all away with their evolution.
- May 9, 2001
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Sure there's evolution... need to explore different areas, and I accept that. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse. I consider Opeth [and Metallica's Load for that matter] to be the former and MDB's 34.788% to be the latest: Aaron did his exploration and it was crap. Credit to MDB, they moved back to their roots... Fair enough.
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>So you think Opeth's and Metallica's Load were evolution for the >better while MDB's was for the worse, though they moved back >to their roots later on.
No you dickfuck, I said Metallica's Load was a change for the better, while MDB's 34.788% was not. Credit to MDB, their last albums were decent unlike Metallica's.
Are you that fucking thick?
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Sure there's evolution... need to explore different areas, and I accept that. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse. I consider Opeth [and Metallica's Load for that matter] to be the former and MDB's 34.788% to be the latest: Aaron did his exploration and it was crap. Credit to MDB, they moved back to their roots... Fair enough.
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>So you think Opeth's and Metallica's Load were evolution for the >better while MDB's was for the worse, though they moved back >to their roots later on.
No you dickfuck, I said Metallica's Load was a change for the better, while MDB's 34.788% was not. Credit to MDB, their last albums were decent unlike Metallica's.
Are you that fucking thick?
- May 9, 2001
- 2,794
- 1
- 0
[Original quote]I recently found a couple of re-writable CD's my friend Bacchus had send me. The first had Anathema & My Dying Bride... everyfuckingthing they did. The second had Dark Tranquillity, In Flames and Opeth.
Except Opeth and My Dying Bride, I can't fucking recognize any of the other bands... or at least the direction they took after 3-4 albums... [/end of original quote]
i.e. the three bands are Anathema, In Flames and Dark Tranquillity.
quote:
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But what about bands like the gathering or theatre of tragedy or moonspell or the three I mentioned above? To write such passionate and intense stuff coming straight from the soul, and to throw it all away makes me sick. It's not music from/for the soul, it music intended to fatten the "musicians" wallet.
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Now you say that Opeth, Metallica, and MDB all fall into the category of bands that wrote passionate and intense stuff and then threw it all away with their evolution.
My reference is always to Anath, IF and DT.
What is this: Reading Comprehension 101???
Except Opeth and My Dying Bride, I can't fucking recognize any of the other bands... or at least the direction they took after 3-4 albums... [/end of original quote]
i.e. the three bands are Anathema, In Flames and Dark Tranquillity.
quote:
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But what about bands like the gathering or theatre of tragedy or moonspell or the three I mentioned above? To write such passionate and intense stuff coming straight from the soul, and to throw it all away makes me sick. It's not music from/for the soul, it music intended to fatten the "musicians" wallet.
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Now you say that Opeth, Metallica, and MDB all fall into the category of bands that wrote passionate and intense stuff and then threw it all away with their evolution.
My reference is always to Anath, IF and DT.
What is this: Reading Comprehension 101???
>So you think Opeth's and Metallica's Load were evolution for the >better while MDB's was for the worse, though they moved back >to their roots later on.
Dickfuck...good one.
Haha...what the fuck? Is it just me or is what I said above the same exact thing as what you said? When I said that MDB's evolution was for the worse, I was obviously referring to 34.788%.
Dickfuck...good one.
Alright, so you mention three bands briefly in the first post in this thread. Then you mention three bands in the paragraph directly preceding the one in question. Which three bands do you think I would expect you to be talking about? You even said that you "mentioned them above"...the only bands mentioned above would be Opeth, Metallica, and MDB.
Learn to write with clarity.
Holy shit...that part was not even in question. The fact that I had no idea that you were referencing those three original bands made me think you were directly contradicting yourself when you said: "But what about bands like the gathering or theatre of tragedy or moonspell or the three I mentioned above? To write such passionate and intense stuff coming straight from the soul, and to throw it all away makes me sick."
There is nothing left to be clarified.
Dickfuck...still a good one.
There is nothing left to be clarified.
Dickfuck...still a good one.
I'll just bud in a couple of matters. First of all:
Darkthrone. Yes, they realized that they really can't remain stagnant. Transilvanian Hunger was a masterpiece of nihilism and simplicity. But such a masterpiece cannot be made twice. So they started to make their songs more complicated again.
Ulver. Their older stuff (Nattens Madrigal, Bergtatt, but mostly Nattens Madrigal) is grade A black metal, not average.
Guess you don't listen much black metal, do you.
Darkthrone. Yes, they realized that they really can't remain stagnant. Transilvanian Hunger was a masterpiece of nihilism and simplicity. But such a masterpiece cannot be made twice. So they started to make their songs more complicated again.
Ulver. Their older stuff (Nattens Madrigal, Bergtatt, but mostly Nattens Madrigal) is grade A black metal, not average.
Guess you don't listen much black metal, do you.
D Mullholand
[project closed]
Immortal, Kvist, Nokturnal Mortum, Limbonic Art, Bal-Sagoth, Enslaved, Emperor, Marduk, Darkthrone... just some of the black metal I listen to. Do I qualify now ?
I stand by my original comments. Only a handful of these bands can be taken seriously, even if I love their music.I've yet to hear Ulver.
D Mullholand
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NP: Camel - Mirage
