I guess my days of downloading music illegally are over...

CDs and other digital container media like HDDs or flash drives complement each other pretty well IMO, with the CD being a good backup medium when your drive fails and vice versa.

Cover artwork has lost a lot of its magic to me in recent years, because it feels like 90% of new releases are just photoshop-clusterfucks and more of ever the same. What guys like Ed Repka did was/is just ten times more exciting... his artwork alone was worth the money of the albums (that his covers featured some of the best (death) metal releases ever, was a nice coincidence, though).

And there is nothing that disappoints me more like paying for a full-price CD or even a special edition and then you have like a 3-page booklet with just a random band photo and some credits.

The fact that CDs are so extremely prone to wear has always been their major downside in my book. You can't keep em in your car because heavy temperature revulsions will fuck them over, you can't take em to a party because some fuckhead will scratch or break them... etc.

So if the industry would begin to put out - let's say - usb flash drives WITH a nice packaging and maybe even better audio-quality than CDs (24 bit etc.)... I'd be ALL OVER that. In fact, I'm probably going down that route with my own band for our upcoming release... because the kids are actually buying these things.

Every container medium has a certain lifespan and old papyrus pwns every modern medium hard in that matter, but we wouldn't want to go back to papyrus because of that. It seems like the most practical solution for that problem is the source of all evil, the internet.

Cloud computing, a self-regenerating system that grows bigger and bigger and reproduces its content every so often... Skynet FTW, basically. Intellectual property rights don't even have to go into oblivion per se. But that's another matter...
 
except skeksis, that this model has already failed before.

i'm also really wary and concerned about the characterization of art as "information... this is a slippery slope, and rife with dangerous implications for commerce and the rights of artists.... because the "freedom of information" cheerleaders seem to me to be preaching a paradigm of convenience for themselves and their ilk: those who just simply don't want to pay for music, movies, or software. hey, it's all information once it's on a computer right?? hell, by that logic we should all just be allowed to download schematics for ICBMs.
 
slash... i'll say it for a third time.... i have over 200 CDs that i've had for about 20 years.. every single one of them is cherry, and every single one still plays... i ripped them all over the last month or so into my iTunes, so i know that for a fact. i don't take my CDs into my car, i make burns of them for the car on cheap CDRs.. by the time they wear out or are heat damaged i'm ready to refresh my car tunes anyway..... it's as simple as that. that's how i deal with it these days anyway... back in the day when i got all those CDs i didn't have a CD player in my car so it was a non-issue. most every CD i've bought lately has had excellent packaging... Amon Amarth - TOTTG, LOG - Wrath, Psyopus - Odd Senses, hell even the LaZarus A.D. i mixed that just came out on Metal Blade.. sure there are shit packaging jobs, tons of them... but there's just as many good ones. i'm not counting the flood of C and D level shite... there's always more crap then gold, but i'm referring to CDs one would actually want to listen to.

ok... flash/USB drives... these things are actually NOT selling well... don't know where you get your information, but my research.. and i have access to soundscan and other sources... which clearly indicate that flash and USB drive music releases, along with "download cards" and Slot SD memcard releases, are selling TERRIBLY. Vinyl is selling better than those... NOT a great sign for a new delivery medium when it is soundly being outsold by a medium that's over 100 years old. ... anyway, even if you beat the hell out of your CDs and they don't last but several years... well that's about double the lifespan already than ANY USB drive i've ever owned, even when totally taken care of and treated gently.

there is ZERO reason why the modern manufactured CD cannot last your entire lifetime, should you choose to keep it that long. like i said, i have about 2-3 thousand CDs... most of them over 10 years old, and at least 200 are 20 years old... and everywhere in between. i have never had one CD just stop working. not one. and i'm not even anal about taking care of them... i just exercise common sense.

more power to you.... but i value the total package. files on a drive, as the "new model", will just hasten the race everyone seems to be in to devalue music and turn it into a disposable commodity.

none for me thanks.
 
I do burn CDs for my car, too. I was basically just saying that portability ain't the strongest point of the medium CD. I travel a lot (you probably do too), live in multiple places, so the portability of my music is a big issue to me. Of course, it's not much of an effort to rip and burn a CD or to put it on flash drive, but once that's been done, a original CD isn't much more than a backup to me.

The thing with the usb drives is based on personal experience from offering this option to people. It was more like a gizmo for advertising, but the response was very interesting. I think the reason why the industry hadn't had much luck with these things so far is quite simple: they're doing it wrong.

We're planning to offer these reasonably priced (hopefully less than 10 bucks a unit) with probably 2 gb capacity and the record in both lossless/high-resolution audio and high-quality mp3s on it, along with artwork, lyrics and maybe some video footage, wallpapers etc. too.

I personally wouldn't pay money for a 512 mb stick with only mp3s on it too, when I can still buy a CD with full-quality music (usually for almost the same price, too). But I do believe that our approach is offering some added value for the customer, that most of the releases so far fail to deliver.

I absolutely understand where you're coming from, James. But I also think there might be some discrepancy in generations here when we're talking about these issues. And I'm NOT implying that you're getting old! :lol:
 
haha, ;) well me getting old may well be a chronological reality... but it doesn't explain the many much younger guys that have popped up on here in very close agreement with me. i think even the youngest here has had the childhood dream of growing up to release CDs, not flash drives, lol. anyway, functional lifetime, attractiveness, and collectability, amongst other practical concerns are the more cogent issues for me... not nostalgia.... i have my record collection for that, since i only buy really old stuff on vinyl.... usually very little beyond about a 1985 release date. i'm also very technically savvy for an "old fart", and i generally live on the "bleeding edge" of new technologies... i have always been the first person in my circles of friends and peers to have anything new....

so that's enough back-sass out of you, slashvanyoungster! :lol:

:kickass:
 
Yeah, I'll just chime in and say I too have tons of CD's from the early 90s (I couldn't really say the words "compact disc" before then :D) that still play great, and have been exposed to pretty big temp. shifts - honestly, as long as they're not in direct sunlight and you don't scratch them, they're fine IMO!

BUT, on the issue of hard drive failures, someone suggested having an infinite license for music you purchased online to download over and over - James mentioned that it'd suck to have to re-download everything, but if there was a service where you could purchase "vaporware" and the service would keep a record of it and organize it all into one mammoth file you could re-download, all you would have to do in the event of a HDD failure is start the download before you went to bed, and with modern connection speeds these days (and only getting faster), you'd have all your music back in the morning!

EDIT: I mean one mammoth archive that could be extracted after downloading, btw
 
nope.. i live in a rural area and can only get satelllite based "broadband" that has a 250mb per day cap (yes, that's very gay, but it is what it is and everyone in the US that lives in non broadband areas.. millions of us.. have this same issue and limitation. also my current library stands at 195.41 GB at this moment... yeah, that shit's just not happening anytime soon... and when you also consider that MOST of it is ripped from my CDs (the rest from my vinyl), how do you propose i should "get a license" for all that so i don't have to pay it again?? Also, i'm still just NOT going to pay for something i can't put on my shelf when it comes to art... me and many like me will just go from law abiding purchasers of hard media to thieves who download without paying as soon as we can no longer buy something solid. Too many holes other bad aspects to your proposed model, AND, wost of all, it requires a custodial presence ... not into Big Brother knowing the entire contents of my media library, thank you very much.

next!
 
Well that's your choice to not buy it, but I'm speaking for those of us (myself included) who would - and the way to have the license seems simple enough, you buy it from a website where you can create a username/password, and any time you log in you can download it. Yes, one could say you could use this to give music to all your friends just by logging in on their computers and downloading it there, but it's so easy to either get it from a torrent/rapidshare or just bring over a flash drive with your tunes that that hardly seems a valid concern!
 
even if i were to accept that model.. and i do not.. you have still skipped over the not so minor little detail of how you would "back up" your "license" for all the music you already own on CD..... for me, it's nearly 200GB in AAC i ripped myself from my own CDs and Vinyl... and, you seem to not care that the whole system requres a custodial presence, and one that will.. by necessity.. be a very impersonal. i don't think too many people will buy into that idea.
 
Why would it require a custodial presence, though? You just log in to your account, it has a record of what you purchased, and you can download it whenever you want, and that'd be the end of it. And I'm only saying this would apply for music you were to purchase from this particular website, you wouldn't be able to upload files you ripped from your CD's or anything. This is just total top-of-my-head thinking here, of course - it's not like I'm heavily invested in this idea or anything, just exploring it since it occurred to me.
 
James,

I still see a lacking in your theory, because I don't see it as thinking outside the box ("I want my CD/vinyl/whatever, not vapor"). With current form of Spotify you don't own anything and you can't download the songs, just stream them. Just like Myspace. Myspace was one major step forward this "listen music online legally for free" but I think Spotify was a step even further, because the artists get actually paid. It might not be the same amount they get as with iTunes, but the exposure is sure as hell a lot bigger, because people actually can listen the music for free. People are greedy by nature and especially with modern people torwards music; "I want to hear it, but I don't want to pay for it"

I have now used Spotify only for two days and I really have to say that I have found a lot of new music, to me that is. I stopped watching tv (because it passivated me too much) and listening to radio back in 1999 so I've spared myself from a lot of shitty music and repetitions that people get when exposed with radio. As you know, some songs are good, but when you hear it 20 times a day and +500 times a year, it really starts to piss you off. I made that mistake when I was in the military and listened to radio and I really started to hate Maroon5 for example and it reminded me why I hated radio. Maroon5 is basically a good band, but when it gets overplayed, it just wants you to smack the singers face in. Thats why I haven't installed my radioantenna in this new flat, but I bought the dvb-box so I could watch Big Brother from the TV. :oops:

But for example I heard Katy Perry for the first time, because it was in the frontpage of Spotify, so I just gave it a spin because it was free. And I really have to say that it was actually pretty nice, except the amount of autotuning was really disgusting. And Black Eyed Peas was another one that I really wanted to get to know and I liked it quite alot.

But the real goldmine was the radio-function. When I ranged it from 1960s and 1970s and chose musicstyle as "funk", I heard so much good music I thought I would never listen, and I would propably never even hear it from the radio. Also from the 00s I found "The Brand New Heavies", which I would actually consider buying a CD from, but I wouldn't buy it as a digital download. I have actually bought one(1) song from iTunes in my lifetime, and that quality was so shitty compared to the CD, that I wouldn't buy any more.

We are a like, we both like physical mediums, and we are not alone. Both digital and physical have their pros and cons, but the fact that you can't sell zeroes and ones is the biggest ones, so this is why my prediction is that the physical mediums won't go away in our lifetime unless the apocalypse happens or something.

...and to answer your question in your sig, it is Exodus 20:17
 
registering an account with a service that keeps records and administers your content = custodial presence. this is why i only ever bought 3 things... individual TV episodes... with iTunes. i got tired of losing the shows and having to redownload them. even without DRM, i do not like the idea of some online service keeping track of what licenses i have. no, i will buy CDs... and any future format that's at least equally cool or cooler. i'll never buy downloads of music.
 
maybe they should just have an iLok for the licenses :lol:

I would much rather have a tangible item though than a file on a hard drive.
 
ahj.... *sigh*.. for at least the 3rd or 4th time, i have nothing... zero.. nada... against the preview functionality of Spotify. i was not even talking about that service at all... i was talking only about a general model of a "download only" music business in which there exist no hard media. period. i'm already weary now of clarifying myself on that point and will just ignore any further posts regarding the issue... or i'll just post the direct link to this post. ffs i hope i'm finally clear on that one, lol.

oh, and as far as i know Exodus don't have any songs that are 20:17 long. :lol:
 
registering an account with a service that keeps records and administers your content = custodial presence. this is why i only ever bought 3 things... individual TV episodes... with iTunes. i got tired of losing the shows and having to redownload them. even without DRM, i do not like the idea of some online service keeping track of what licenses i have.

Hmm, yeah, good point - if the company running the website were to go bust, or their servers/hard drives all die, then you'd be up shit creek. Oh well, so much for that!
 
i usually grab every new cd i buy into mp3 format to have it on my ipod too, i dont care that much about the quality as you do, because when i´m on the road, in the car, with much noise around..192kbs feels totally fine for me.

Just curious. Have you tried putting AIF files on your ipod and compared the sound quality with mp3's while in noisy environments?
Honestly the only reason I don't own an ipod is because I can't stand the sound of mp3 files and was saving up for a 120gb one so I could put AIF files on it.
If I want to hear mp3's in noisy environments like when I'm at the gym I just use my phone. But I would venture that in a car one could tell the difference right?
It would be great to not have to carry a bunch of cd's everytime I drive around...
 
Hmm, yeah, good point - if the company running the website were to go bust, or their servers/hard drives all die, then you'd be up shit creek. Oh well, so much for that!

I still think it's a good idea to put into itunes. They could just let you redl purchased tracks or something.
 
We're planning to offer these reasonably priced (hopefully less than 10 bucks a unit) with probably 2 gb capacity and the record in both lossless/high-resolution audio and high-quality mp3s on it, along with artwork, lyrics and maybe some video footage, wallpapers etc. too.

What is the point of doing an Artwork if is not gonna be printed? if we talk about the music, why to have artworks and such? and specially if is gonna be only as an archive in a flash memory? if you are paying someone to do the artwork, is better not to have an artwork and save some bucks, if you are gtting it for free is fine, but then again whats the point, at least print it in the package, you have to show it, and the designer would appreciate it.

Said that, and no offense, but i think release music in Usb Flash just suck a lot, and as you say about cd`s, flash memories are just back up devices, and in fact not a very good one, cd`s are better for back up.
 
Nah, I still like artwork, and wouldn't have any problem with it being in a .pdf form (and would miss it if it wasn't there)