I have a question for you all, because I'm tired of trying to figure it out myself.

you have a job, rent down there cant be THAT much, why do you have to wait 5 months? i cant imagine still living at home and my parents are cool. get out of there!@#
 
I owe $2000 on my car still, and don't have any cash saved becaused of that. Saving doesn't begin until after the end of October when its paid off. By the time I have a sufficient amount to go anywhere, it'll be about that time anyway.
 
i hear this... i would love to move out but being as how im in school i cant get the job that would pay me enough to move out, but if i quit school then id be stuck in that job or something similiar a long timee...

so for now i just live at home and attend church on sundays (seriously, this is the only thing my parents are really anal about...)
 
My mother in some way is like your father, she likes controling people...:(
I don't think there is any other solution than moving! I hope you'll find a place soon
 
OK, so for a living I talk on the phone to complete strangers and make them do my bidding. To train you in what I do would take forever, but it amounts to manipulation, and it is not for the faint of heart.

I'm sorry you're in this position. If my Stepson were still living with my ex, and he is exactly your age, I'm pretty sure one of them would kill the other, and my ex sounds a lot like your dad. My hat's off to you. (And my money's on my ex - my Stepson has the softer heart, just if you were curious.)

First off, if you live in someone's house, you do so by their rules, regardless of what constrains you to the home, how many problems are involved in moving etc. ad nauseaum. If you live with an OCD control freak with a temper, a personality disorder, and a reality perception issue, then you live by THOSE rules. It sucks, but there it is.

So... is it a rule you have to work or just parental pressure to make all decisions the way they wish it? If it is a rule, what are the arrangements for paid vacation days? It's important to think this out logically and like an adult -- this is what your Dad likely is really looking for, not so much the attendence at work, but the adult decision-making process. If that's not what he's looking for, it's important to be smarter, more devious, and find the loophole.

Next, whenever you say "no" say two positives, the negative then the positive. E.G. "Dad, I know this is important to you, and I want you to be proud of me. Unfortunately, what you're asking just doesn't work out. I do appreciate the input.

Then, address his concern: "I know you want me to be responsible and I appreciate the advice. It felt a little weird to be in this position to me, too. I thought the best thing to do was to notify my employer right away. They offered a solution that works well for them. See, if I take a bus that early, they fully expect that I would arrive to work tired and be less productive on their time. They'd really rather I was less productive on my own time, and in their view that is what my paid vacation days are for. I get, as a result of this, one fewer paid vacation days. However, if I do as they ask, my shift is covered and there is no hardship to my employer. Additionally, it would not be possible for me to make a habit of this. Really, while I do understand why, I need to make sure you understand that you and Mom are the only ones having a problem with this. I don't want to disappoint you, but since my responsibility to my job appears to be your primary concern, and it certainly is mine, I also want to make you aware of their bias. I will see you later today and I love you and thanks for looking out for me."

Follow up statements to be used as needed. "I understand what you're saying. This is just what I need to do for me." "I think if I were in your shoes, I'd feel really (frustrated/angry/disappointed/whatever) right now." "That must be (aggravating/frustrating, dissapointing/whatever)." "I'm really sorry you feel that way." "It was never my intention to cause you distress." "I know you love me and want what's best for me. Sooner or later, I do have to learn to handle these things on my own -- you can't be there for me forever." "I'm sorry, I just don't see it that way."

Listen! Don't sit there and mouth words at the phone while your Dad rants. Listen to understand. This is a sort of "know your enemy" thing. If you know what his issue is, you can use it to bend him to your will.

Communication style -- match his. Does he talk about feelings? (They're going to think you're flakey. They're not going to trust you) Then talk about feelings (They appreciate my calling so promptly and prefer this approach) Does he talk about facts and things and stuff (A job is a job and you go to work when you're expected and you do your job)? Well then, you give him facts (my job comes with paid vacation which they expect me to use at times like this). Is he direct and short? Be direct and short. Is he all wordy? Throw more words and details at him. Does he tell you he's looking for your respect? Just tell him he's got it. Does he throw Mom on the phone when he doesn't get his way? The second she's on the phone, match her in the exact same fashion. Does he switch styles and focus part way through the conversation? Switch with him.

Posture: Be proactive and perky. Yeah, I know, but try it. Flip the negative statements on end to be positive. For example, instead of "I can't be there until two" try "No problem -- I can be there at two." If they say something you can twist, or that you intend to do, start off with "Absolutely! That's why I ..." So, as an example, if Dad says your responsibilty to your job is paramount, you pop in with an enthusiastic agreement, and that's why you called them right away and put them in the driver's seat. You'll need an agile mind for this conversation. You want to find as many ways to tell him he's right as you can, followed by 'evidence' that you have done precisely what he suggested, just not the way he's suggesting it.

If all else fails, go with "You're right, Dad. I'm sorry and it won't happen again." Oh, hey, in fact, in keeping with that, you might try beating yourself up. If he's likely to defend you. "I suck. I know I suck. I can't believe I'm in this position. I feel like a total failure. I'm sure as heck not going to do anything different than what my work asked since I got in this position. This is so stupid! How are people supposed to hold down jobs when this kind of crap happens. I'm scared -- I don't want them to hate me...." Blah blah blah.

Good luck. Sorry you're at odds with your Dad.
 
Captain Beard said:
How did you finally get away? You're 20 right?
Click to expand...

Yessir!

Well...it was hard because my mom reaaaaly didn't want me to go (since my dad already moved out)...I originally had offers from The art institute of Seattle and Portland (Seattle was actually offering to give me scholarships and grants!), but my mom ended that. An advisor from seattle apparently called my house wanting to speak with me, but I wasn't home...and my mom basically told the lady that I was NOT going to Seattle..period. Too far away, I couldn't afford it, blah blah.
When I returned the councelor's call, she basically restated what my mom said, and basically made me feel like a "lost cause."

I think at that point I lost it. I got in a huge argument with my mom, and I told her that this was my future, and she had no right to do what she did.
But I felt bad, and she wasn't in the greatest health, and my dad was gone, so I caved and looked for something closer to home. The only thing available was HSU..which was pretty good because it was cheap, had a good art dept....blah blah.

Once I figured out where I was going, I started looking for a place months in advance. I mainly searched the online classifieds for apartments and jobs. I was looking for the cheapest possible places that were the closest to campus...and I found one that was right across the street, utilities included, etc :)
But to make sure that I would be happy here, I made several trips up here with Justin. We checked out the apartments and applied for jobs while we were in town.. Luckily, we both had job offers a week after we applied...which required driving back for interviews blah blah. I secured the apartment (with a $300 deposit), had a garage sale and bunch of stuff I didn't need (and made about $600), Justin rented a moving van, we packed up our things and headed off.

It just took lots of planning in advance, phone calls, and $ saving, I guess.
BTW, if you get an apartment, try to find one with utilities included..preferably one with a month to month lease, no mice or other pests (lol..argugghh!) and be sure to ask A LOT of questions...or you can be screwed over by the landlords. When you move in, they usually have to do this little "check list" that basically allows you to write down all of the problems the apartment has (cracks in the ceiling, mold,etc)...if you do that, be sure to search the apartment and write down eeeverything you see wrong...even take photos, if you can.
And if you're moving.....move close to some friends...maybe move in with some friends (saves loooads of monies).
*needs friends here* :(

Erm...If I think of anything else...I'll let you know!
 
Nightshade said:
OK, so for a living I talk on the phone to complete strangers and make them do my bidding. To train you in what I do would take forever, but it amounts to manipulation, and it is not for the faint of heart.

I'm sorry you're in this position. If my Stepson were still living with my ex, and he is exactly your age, I'm pretty sure one of them would kill the other, and my ex sounds a lot like your dad. My hat's off to you. (And my money's on my ex - my Stepson has the softer heart, just if you were curious.)

First off, if you live in someone's house, you do so by their rules, regardless of what constrains you to the home, how many problems are involved in moving etc. ad nauseaum. If you live with an OCD control freak with a temper, a personality disorder, and a reality perception issue, then you live by THOSE rules. It sucks, but there it is.

So... is it a rule you have to work or just parental pressure to make all decisions the way they wish it? If it is a rule, what are the arrangements for paid vacation days? It's important to think this out logically and like an adult -- this is what your Dad likely is really looking for, not so much the attendence at work, but the adult decision-making process. If that's not what he's looking for, it's important to be smarter, more devious, and find the loophole.

Next, whenever you say "no" say two positives, the negative then the positive. E.G. "Dad, I know this is important to you, and I want you to be proud of me. Unfortunately, what you're asking just doesn't work out. I do appreciate the input.

Then, address his concern: "I know you want me to be responsible and I appreciate the advice. It felt a little weird to be in this position to me, too. I thought the best thing to do was to notify my employer right away. They offered a solution that works well for them. See, if I take a bus that early, they fully expect that I would arrive to work tired and be less productive on their time. They'd really rather I was less productive on my own time, and in their view that is what my paid vacation days are for. I get, as a result of this, one fewer paid vacation days. However, if I do as they ask, my shift is covered and there is no hardship to my employer. Additionally, it would not be possible for me to make a habit of this. Really, while I do understand why, I need to make sure you understand that you and Mom are the only ones having a problem with this. I don't want to disappoint you, but since my responsibility to my job appears to be your primary concern, and it certainly is mine, I also want to make you aware of their bias. I will see you later today and I love you and thanks for looking out for me."

Follow up statements to be used as needed. "I understand what you're saying. This is just what I need to do for me." "I think if I were in your shoes, I'd feel really (frustrated/angry/disappointed/whatever) right now." "That must be (aggravating/frustrating, dissapointing/whatever)." "I'm really sorry you feel that way." "It was never my intention to cause you distress." "I know you love me and want what's best for me. Sooner or later, I do have to learn to handle these things on my own -- you can't be there for me forever." "I'm sorry, I just don't see it that way."

Listen! Don't sit there and mouth words at the phone while your Dad rants. Listen to understand. This is a sort of "know your enemy" thing. If you know what his issue is, you can use it to bend him to your will.

Communication style -- match his. Does he talk about feelings? (They're going to think you're flakey. They're not going to trust you) Then talk about feelings (They appreciate my calling so promptly and prefer this approach) Does he talk about facts and things and stuff (A job is a job and you go to work when you're expected and you do your job)? Well then, you give him facts (my job comes with paid vacation which they expect me to use at times like this). Is he direct and short? Be direct and short. Is he all wordy? Throw more words and details at him. Does he tell you he's looking for your respect? Just tell him he's got it. Does he throw Mom on the phone when he doesn't get his way? The second she's on the phone, match her in the exact same fashion. Does he switch styles and focus part way through the conversation? Switch with him.

Posture: Be proactive and perky. Yeah, I know, but try it. Flip the negative statements on end to be positive. For example, instead of "I can't be there until two" try "No problem -- I can be there at two." If they say something you can twist, or that you intend to do, start off with "Absolutely! That's why I ..." So, as an example, if Dad says your responsibilty to your job is paramount, you pop in with an enthusiastic agreement, and that's why you called them right away and put them in the driver's seat. You'll need an agile mind for this conversation. You want to find as many ways to tell him he's right as you can, followed by 'evidence' that you have done precisely what he suggested, just not the way he's suggesting it.

If all else fails, go with "You're right, Dad. I'm sorry and it won't happen again." Oh, hey, in fact, in keeping with that, you might try beating yourself up. If he's likely to defend you. "I suck. I know I suck. I can't believe I'm in this position. I feel like a total failure. I'm sure as heck not going to do anything different than what my work asked since I got in this position. This is so stupid! How are people supposed to hold down jobs when this kind of crap happens. I'm scared -- I don't want them to hate me...." Blah blah blah.

Good luck. Sorry you're at odds with your Dad.
Click to expand...


Wonderful post, I wish I had the rep right now!
I was basically about to type an answer to David in the same lines.
I agree, 100% with everything here.
What is your job NightShade? In my previous job I took over 70 hours training with a psychologist about those kind of things, hen I trained people myself...


David: 5 months is a very short amount of time. I know that when things like that happen, those 5 months seem to be even longer and harder, but this too, shall pass... read the post above. Well written and very true.

(then when you're done: read neal's post: MOVE OUT!) ;)

good luck.
 
Will Bozarth said:
without reading the other answers, I say tell him that you really tried to catch that bus, but missed it... call him right after the time the bus is supposed to leave.
Click to expand...

or play the sick role. you were too ill to make it on time. (this also is without reading the other posts)
 
Most parent's are controlling like that in some way.

Speaking for myself, it took a LONG time for my parent's to not freak out when I took a day off. I'm basically a workaholic from a family of workaholics( hence my social retardation ), so the idea of "taking a day off" is hard for them to understand.

After a very long while, they finally began to see that I worked many hours and many days without time off and if I decided to do something it wasn't the end of the world.

I don't think this helped at all but thats my two cents.
 
Dead_Lioness said:
Wonderful post, I wish I had the rep right now!
I was basically about to type an answer to David in the same lines.
I agree, 100% with everything here.
What is your job NightShade? In my previous job I took over 70 hours training with a psychologist about those kind of things, then I trained people myself...
Click to expand...

Thank you. It's a Customer Service position, but it's kinda specialized and the communication training was similar.
 
i'd say this... unless for some reason this won't work...

miss the bus, but get back at some point later in the day, making it seem like you did go to work. he wouldn't know the difference. so just tell him you went to work, then went out after or something. i dunno man...

its a stupid situation really. your dad needs to understand that you ARE 24... and that you were atleast responsible enough to tell him what you were doing. i could understand if he got pissed if you're just taking advantage of him by living at his place, doing whatever whenever you want. but you're being respectable by telling him your plans and such. so i don't really see why he gets upset.

if not, try the sick thing. if not, just do what nightshade said and "beat yourself up". that sort of thing seems to work.

good luck.
 
Bacchante said:
Here's what I would do..
I would call work...notify them that you are in a situation where you have to stay in SF for one more day.
After you get the OK from your work, call your folks. Tell them that you decided to stay in SF for one more day, and you called your work ahead of time, and they were totally fine with that. Essentially, you got another day off to hang out with people you don't see often...there isn't anything wrong with that.

My parents were/are very controlling and paranoid. When things went downhill, I would usually escape by getting out of the house...or absorbing myself in something else like drawing, schoolwork, gardening..blah.

Try to distance yourself a little if you're trying to avoid confrontation. And for the next 5 months, get prepared for the move. Look for apartments in newspapers, compare prices, see the places in person, pick one, blah blah...all of that fun stuff (if you haven't done that already).

I hope you'll find a place you'll be happy living in :)
Click to expand...

I agree. Even though I think lying is usually not the "right" way out of things, if I were in your tight situation, I would call work, and make sure it was ok I took a day off, blah blah blah. Then call my parents and say that you had called work to make sure they knew you were coming in tomorrow, and that they thought you had said you weren't going to be in, and that you might as well not come in. Or something to that extent.

I don't know, good luck man!
 
So I called about 10:30 and he didn't seem too mad, but it could be becuase I've felt drained all day and had that gravelly "I'm already bummed out and don't wanna hear it" sound in my voice. Can't say I'm pleased to be back, still. Just passing the time until November now. *Stares at calendar*
 
Like I said, man, just try the sit-down-and-talk when you're both feeling mellow. "I know we don't get along, but I'm working on moving out, and things will be much better for both of us in the meantime if we try and stay out of each other's way. So tell me what I can do to help keep the peace."
 
More than anything, I'll have to just vent it off in other ways when he hops on my pc. I can't stop him anymore other thn asking him to vacate my chair when I get home without exploding at him. Thats the main thing we argue over, along with sleep habits.
 
I'm usually the type that prefers not to be reminded in vivid detail. I can look back at my worst pains in life because they're smeared and foggy by the passage of time. I'd like to have thought someday that my father was a decent person after all and it was just needless tensions creating minor setbacks. But, thats not going to be the case this time. I need to remember why I want to leave. So by all means, please do bump it up, it'll refresh my reasons and determination to go where I feel respected and cared about. :)
 
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