I just got the new album...

Sadguru

In my dream...
Jan 11, 2004
3,809
14
38
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Canada, Québec
...and I wish I could get into it.
:cry:

The production, the vocal performance, the cohesion, the presentation...flawless! Maybe I'm missing the melodic sensibility of To Welcome the Fade, I don't know. No more female vocals?
 
I'd dare to say that songs like "Autumn Reflection", "Through A Childs Eyes" and many parts of other songs show some of the most melodic sensibilities we've ever put forth, but everyone is going to hear things in their own way I suppose.

No, female vocals are gone gone gone....we knew that there were some people who would find this distressing, but the fact of the matter is this...For the last two albums prior to TPHD, we struggled to find a female vocalist that would suit our needs and tastes and be available to record in the studio. It was a feat even managing that, and then when it came time to find someone who'd tour or even play live locally, we were almost always left with noone. It get's frustrating when you cannot perform the songs the way they were meant to be performed as they are on cd. Add that to the fact that, we've just naturally progressed away from writing songs like that, which feature the female vocals. This time around, we honestly felt like throwing female vocals onto this cd would have been forcing the issue, because we're all quite content with how the songs sound as is. Paul's vocals on this album were more than adequate for what the songs needed, and personally I'd rather hear more of Paul's melodic vocals than some other female session vocalist ooh-ing and ahh-ing, etc.

There are in fact so many bands now, more than ever I believe, who are featuring the female vocals in this general style of music. So at least there's still plenty of other bands for you to check out if that style is really what interests you. I'm always sorry to see someone lose interest in us or become disenchanted, but sometimes thats how it goes. Try giving the new cd a few more listens, and instead of holding it up against our back catalog or viewing it negatively for the changes we've made, give it a chance for what it is. And at the very least, I appreciate that you enjoyed our past cds as you did :)
 
NvmbrsDoom5 said:
I'd dare to say that songs like "Autumn Reflection", "Through A Childs Eyes" and many parts of other songs show some of the most melodic sensibilities we've ever put forth, but everyone is going to hear things in their own way I suppose.

No, female vocals are gone gone gone....we knew that there were some people who would find this distressing, but the fact of the matter is this...For the last two albums prior to TPHD, we struggled to find a female vocalist that would suit our needs and tastes and be available to record in the studio. It was a feat even managing that, and then when it came time to find someone who'd tour or even play live locally, we were almost always left with noone. It get's frustrating when you cannot perform the songs the way they were meant to be performed as they are on cd. Add that to the fact that, we've just naturally progressed away from writing songs like that, which feature the female vocals. This time around, we honestly felt like throwing female vocals onto this cd would have been forcing the issue, because we're all quite content with how the songs sound as is. Paul's vocals on this album were more than adequate for what the songs needed, and personally I'd rather hear more of Paul's melodic vocals than some other female session vocalist ooh-ing and ahh-ing, etc.

There are in fact so many bands now, more than ever I believe, who are featuring the female vocals in this general style of music. So at least there's still plenty of other bands for you to check out if that style is really what interests you. I'm always sorry to see someone lose interest in us or become disenchanted, but sometimes thats how it goes. Try giving the new cd a few more listens, and instead of holding it up against our back catalog or viewing it negatively for the changes we've made, give it a chance for what it is. And at the very least, I appreciate that you enjoyed our past cds as you did :)

Hi! Thanks for sharing :)

I've been through the entire album several times by now so I'm somehow more comfortable about discussing it.
You are right, "Autumn Reflection", "Through A Childs Eyes" are melodic. Actually, Autumn Reflection is my favorite track along "Collapse of the Fallen Throe". But taken as a whole, I can't help but feel that TPHD is more brutal, more "in your face". I'm not even sure if it's safe to label the album as "Doom metal". To my ears, it's definitely not the case, despite the fact that there's some doom vibe that can be felt here and there. To me, staying away from that Doom tag is definitely a good thing.

About the female vocals, I see your point. Now that I'm more familiar with the album, I think it is perfect the way it is. Paul's vocals are dynamic enough to convey a large spectrum of emotion. I'm aware that [too] many metal bands use the male/female vocals formula and quite honestly, I think it has become fashionable to do so. But the way you guys made use of them in TWTF was just exquisite, "Broken" is a good exemple IMO.

Hey, I'm not giving up an album after a couple of listens :D After giving the album a few more spin, I can definitely say that it's growing on me. There are plenty of memorable moments and never you guys have been as cohesive. The songs flow into each other like a charm like never before. You have my sincere respect for putting so much of yourself into what you're doing.

*please excuse my poor grammar and syntax, my native language is French.
 
Very cool, it's good to see and hear opinions from all over, France especially!

I agree with you, I think the song "Broken" was a very good song and one of my favorites from "...Fade". That song in particular makes a good example for my previous point though, about performing live. We've never ever performed that song live due to the female vocals being such a crucial ingredient, it just wouldn't seem right to play it live without the female vox. We definitely kept that kind of scenario in mind as we were writing and recording this album, because we wanted to keep the option open that almost any song off of the new cd could potentially be peformed live. The one main exception might be "...Child's Eyes", but hey you never know, under the right circumstances, it could be done ;)

And you'll find no arguement from us regarding the difficulty in labelling our new cd as "doom metal", because we've felt that particular tag hasn't quite been fitting for us for a while now. But that's why we'd prefer it if as many people as possible would or could just listen to the album and not have a preconceived notion of what genre it's "supposed" to be or anything. It's just heavy dark metal (and in many moments its not metal at all is it?!)

Anyhow, I'm glad you're giving the album a try even if it is an adjustment. And we do appreciate feedback from people about this stuff as well. It's helpful, plus it gives us a chance to offer our feedback and explanations as well, in hopes of making our thoughts and intentions more easily understood.

What are/were your favorite tracks on "To Welcome The Fade"? I'd be interested to know if you have some time :)
 
In a couple of weeks I will be able to get The Pale Hunt Departure :D I'm really looking forward to hearing your album :dopey:
 
NvmbrsDoom5 said:
Very cool, it's good to see and hear opinions from all over, France especially!

I agree with you, I think the song "Broken" was a very good song and one of my favorites from "...Fade". That song in particular makes a good example for my previous point though, about performing live. We've never ever performed that song live due to the female vocals being such a crucial ingredient, it just wouldn't seem right to play it live without the female vox. We definitely kept that kind of scenario in mind as we were writing and recording this album, because we wanted to keep the option open that almost any song off of the new cd could potentially be peformed live. The one main exception might be "...Child's Eyes", but hey you never know, under the right circumstances, it could be done ;)

And you'll find no arguement from us regarding the difficulty in labelling our new cd as "doom metal", because we've felt that particular tag hasn't quite been fitting for us for a while now. But that's why we'd prefer it if as many people as possible would or could just listen to the album and not have a preconceived notion of what genre it's "supposed" to be or anything. It's just heavy dark metal (and in many moments its not metal at all is it?!)

Anyhow, I'm glad you're giving the album a try even if it is an adjustment. And we do appreciate feedback from people about this stuff as well. It's helpful, plus it gives us a chance to offer our feedback and explanations as well, in hopes of making our thoughts and intentions more easily understood.

What are/were your favorite tracks on "To Welcome The Fade"? I'd be interested to know if you have some time :)

Hey there,

Being able to discuss with band members is really rewarding. It helps clarifying some points and to see the human behind the name Novembers Doom. :)

When you say it is best to listen to an album without any preconceived notion, you are right. That kind of attitude definitely blocks the listener to the creative side of the album. As far as I'm concerned, I think it's pretty difficult to listen with a fresh mind because we are always coughts with our expectations. Oh well, we could philosophize on creativity for hours but let us not get into that hehe.

As for my favorite tracks on TWTF:
1 - Dark Fields For Brilliance
2 - Broken
3 - Within My Flesh
4 - Dreams to Follow (brilliant instrumental)
5 - Torn
6 - The Lifeless Silhouette
7 - If Forever
8 - Not The Strong
9 - The Spirit Seed

The order isn't absolute.

*I'm from Québec, Canada :)
 
Rensei said:
Being able to discuss with band members is really rewarding. It helps clarifying some points and to see the human behind the name Novembers Doom. :)

That's one of the most gratifying things about UM. :)
 
Maybe you guys could give Paul a kick in the groinal area whenever you need some female vocals. :)

And I must confess, I still have not purchased this album. I've been really lazy lately. First thing when I get home I'll get on The End website and get this done. Well, maybe second thing. It's supposed to be 60 some degrees today so first thing I need to do is sit out on the patio and drink a few beers. Then I'll purchase this album.
 
" *I'm from Québec, Canada "

My mistake, sorry! We adore Canada, we've only played there once, in Toronto, but it was great, we really loved the fans there because they were very receptive and cool with us. We got to spend an extra day there just walking around and driving around and it was a cool experience. We're most likely going to be returning there sometime in the fall to perform :) If we could do a full Canadian tour we would for certain.
 
I've gotta admit, I too, at first listen, was wondering where the female vocals went. I guess I'd kind of gotten used to them being on an ND disc. But after hearing this CD over and over and over again...they just wouldn't fit anywhere. This thing's truely a masterpiece the way it is, and Paul's vocals are all killer enough on their own.

Although I always envisioned someone like Sarah Jezebel Diva singing with ND....that'd be killer \m/ :OMG:
 
Rensei said:
I don't know. No more female vocals?

And how would this be a bad thing? If female vocals never happened again, ever, on a metal album, mixed with growling... I would be a happy man. Females have no place in the homoerotic world of black metal....


On a somewhat unrelated note, Simen from Borknagar/Dimmu was once introduced to a promoter on the Dimmu '03 tour as "The female vocalist in Dimmu Borgir"...
 
I can't comment on the female vocalist in the previous ND albums since I've yet to hear them. I will say, though, that Paul's voice is just perfect for TPHD and any other vocalist, whether male or female, simply couldn't match up and would fragment it. I'm not a huge fan of female vocals in metal myself either. There are the exceptions if it's done really well such as UnDo Control by Dark Tranquillity though DT wouldn't be have nearly the same impact on me if female vocals were used more. IMO the male voice is perfectly suited to metal, the power, the depth etc. Sometimes I'll be listening to a band I haven't heard before. Will start well, nice guitar work etc...getting interested...the male vocalist starts....getting more intested...then the female vocalist starts and I'm thinking "WTF??"...and with immediate decline in interest! Gothic's the worst, love the dark gothic stuff, but as soon as those operatic-type vocals kick in I'm hitting the off button!
 
darkcinema27 said:
I like the baby vocals in "Through a Child's Eyes" sooo cuuute! Whoever that has not gotten this album is missing out on good music!

Thanks for the kind words everyone!

Technically, the baby vocals on Through a Child's Eyes are female vocals, so I guess we did use them again. :)

That's actually my daughter in the vocal booth. I think it added something cool to the song, and a great idea by Larry!
 
Novembers Paul said:
Thanks for the kind words everyone!

Technically, the baby vocals on Through a Child's Eyes are female vocals, so I guess we did use them again. :)

OMG NvmbrsDoom5 is teh liar
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