If Mort Divine ruled the world

[SentinelSlain]

What I don't get it how they managed to tell us that Gaddafi was some kind of irreconcilable evil that had to go, when he was quite willing to do pretty much whatever we asked, for a reasonable price. For example, he was paid to patrol Libyas own waters to prevent migrants getting to Europe. I mean, imagine if an American politician was paid by Cuba to patrol the coast to prevent Americans getting to Cuba. That doesn't seem like the sign of someone who can't be dealt with. I suppose an exception would be what happened when some relative of his was arrested for beating their maid in Switzerland. However, rightly or wrongly, I think it's kind of standard that something like that would be seen as a slight on the prestige of "his" country and that he would have to have some kind of an outcry if he wanted to preserve esteem, internally and externally, especially among other people purportedly critical of the West.

 

[CiG]

Muh moderates.

http://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1706301506288065&id=100007246952077&ref=bookmarks

 

[Carpe Mortem]

Every time I see someone spout Muslim hate I suggest they do reverse translations on Google to see forums in the Arabic language where genuine Arab Muslims mourn with each other about how much everyone hates them for no reason. Don't trust media translations, read that shit yourself. They're people.

And ironically the hate breeds hate. Even a fully Americanized fella with not an ounce of violence in his heart just might snap after the 500th extended luggage check.

We have a pretty hefty Muslim population around here... Dearborn, MI is I think one of the largest in the US. And every one who says they're assholes I've seen treat these people with disrespect. What a coincidence that they literally get spit on by 'those fucking Arabs".

 

[Carpe Mortem]

IDK what my point was. I guess that I agree we should all mind our own fucking business. Within and outside the country. Because people get pissy when you disrespect them by meddling.

 

[Dak]

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/06/epic-correction-of-the-decade.php

lulz

 

[CiG]

I suggest they do reverse translations on Google to see forums in the Arabic language where genuine Arab Muslims mourn with each other about how much everyone hates them for no reason.

I suggest going to the Arabic Al Jazeera facebook page and translating all the homophobic gloating in reaction to the Orlando attack.

Sorry, I have zero sympathy for religious people.

for no reason.

No reason?

 

[Einherjar86]

ha, no one is able to reply to my points because they are unequivocally correct

Actually, I don't reply to your points because you think they're "unequivocally correct."

I think the fact that homosexuals are the victims here will counterbalance any association between homosexuality and mental illness that would lead to discrimination, except for maybe among people who are already anti-gay. Plus I don't think anyone really thinks this is solely a mental illness issue.

Good point - this is actually why I included the "unconscious" bit in my original post. I'm seeing a fair amount of Christian individuals admitting they wished that sexuality wasn't an issue here, that they just want to lament the common humanity of the victims, or something of the sort. To me, that's a way of avoiding an important part of the equation if they choose to entertain a mental health argument about the killer. In a sense, they're actually perpetuating a dynamic that leads to the kind of mental health they're talking about.

It's more part of a cultural code than it is part of any vocalized opinion.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

I suggest going to the Arabic Al Jazeera facebook page and translating all the homophobic gloating in reaction to the Orlando attack.
Sorry, I have zero sympathy for religious people.
No reason?

Well yeah by all means dislike them as much as any other bigot, but just as you wouldn't assume every Christian hates the gay's, don't assume every Muslim does. Also keep in mind that trolls abound online.

We probably just can't see eye to eye. I'm not an aggressive hater of religious folk like some people are.

 

[arg]

What about the 2.75 million Muslims that are already in the country? Don't you think they might be a tad annoyed?

The ban on Muslims from terrorist countries is reasonable. I'd make exceptions for some if they have amazing verifiable credentials. For those already here, the legal productive ones have nothing to worry about. Those with terrorist ties, even if they haven't done anything yet, should be deported. Those who get mad should be jailed/deported.

And in what sort of mystical fantasy land do the general public not have to pay for the fuckups of the government?

It's how it is, but it doesn't have to be. The government -chooses- to grant amnesty and benefits to illegals. It -chooses- to put refugees in planes and dump them in American towns without permission. This does not benefit us. We need a government that will say no to these (Trump...or the Aussies).

And don't you think it's a tad late for America to stop meddling in other's affairs? The fact that there are terrorists in the first place would kinda point towards that, would it not?

We can still withdraw from their lands and blow them up of they come to us instead. Maybe leave enough forces to defend the oil but that's it. Leave the Muslims killing Muslims to their own devices, who gives a shit.

This happens all the time. We just destroyed the most successful nation in Africa, Hillary gloating about it as a great achievement, then placing the blame their citizens for not immediately rebuilding it and spreading the good ole American values of muh freedoms and liberties. When do you think we'll actually pay the Libyan people back? The problem is that half of the time we try to fix one of our fuck ups, we just create two new fuck ups. Interventionism is a massive waste of time, and imo mostly a sham to fund corrupt defense agencies/contractors.

Yep

I'm a big believer in free trade though.

Free trade is one of the primary reasons most of our jobs are going to China, India and Mexico, why salaries are stagnant, and local businesses close due to cheap competition. We gotta tax em to keep an even playing field

 

[arg]

Actually, I don't reply to your points because you think they're "unequivocally correct."

But I wanna see if an "educated" lefty's argument is any better

 

[SentinelSlain]

Americans should have a way better standard of living than they do.

 

[Dak]

Americans should have a way better standard of living than they do.

Which Americans?

 

[Einherjar86]

But I wanna see if an "educated" lefty's argument is any better

Guns are not the problem, Muslims are the problem

Plenty of people who identify (or identified) as Christian have killed people too. The Ku Klux Klan, in its earlier manifestations, claimed to be doing God's work, and in total the KKK (and similar groups) have killed more Americans than have ISIS (and similar groups). It makes no sense to say that "Christians are the problem."

sure we had a hand in screwing the economy of mexico and destabilizing syria. so fucking what? should regular citizens have to suffer because of the mistakes of our dumbass government? what do we have to gain by letting illegals and refugees in? some fanciful notion of "atonement for our sins" serves no purpose. keep them all the fuck out, build a huge ass wall and stop flying muslims in and dumping them in our cities.

ISIS doesn't care if we allow immigration or disallow it, as far as it concerns their capacity for infiltration. It's the same argument regarding banning guns in order to keep them out of the hands of criminals. The point is that they're criminals, and they'll get guns no matter what - likewise, terror cells will find ways to infiltrate, no matter what.

As with firearms, I'm not in favor of banning them; I'm in favor of regulating them. The same goes for immigration.

 

[SentinelSlain]

The KKK were based in America and existed in various forms for 151 years, vs 17 years, according to wikipedia, for ISIS/ISIL. If you looked at a total death toll from Islamic conquests and attacks on "christendom" and I suspect you'd find one from Bill Warner, it would far outweigh the KKK's death toll.

The entire number of killings related to the Southern culture of honour, in America, is only in the thousands, over hundreds of years. Thousands of people get killed in single years over honour in Pakistan.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I think that's a stretch. I think most of these dickheads are at least devout enough to whatever cause to throw all their eggs in one basket. This guy just seems to show support for anyone who blew anything up.

I still think that it applies. Weren't the original Brown Shirts basically a bunch of dudes that spent their time between bars and street fights, eventually becoming more organized by figureheads like Hitler and Rohm? There is always some percentage of people that naturally gravitate towards violence, and those people are usually at the forefront of violent ideological movements. You can say that they would have been violent without a focused target to deliver their violence, but its ideology that makes them more dangerous than just a common thug.

Good point - this is actually why I included the "unconscious" bit in my original post. I'm seeing a fair amount of Christian individuals admitting they wished that sexuality wasn't an issue here, that they just want to lament the common humanity of the victims, or something of the sort. To me, that's a way of avoiding an important part of the equation if they choose to entertain a mental health argument about the killer. In a sense, they're actually perpetuating a dynamic that leads to the kind of mental health they're talking about.

It's more part of a cultural code than it is part of any vocalized opinion.

Pretty sure Orlando is hardly a breeding ground of homophobia. Has there ever been a case previously where a deeply repressed homosexual went on a rampage and started killing his own? If there's no real precedent of that kind of repression leading to that kind of violence, then I don't see why mental health or parental upbringing aren't more relevant.

Free trade is one of the primary reasons most of our jobs are going to China, India and Mexico, why salaries are stagnant, and local businesses close due to cheap competition. We gotta tax em to keep an even playing field

A lot of those countries also have booming middle-classes. I don't see why an American is entitled to protection and an easy job when there are Chinese and others willing to work harder and be more productive.

 

[SentinelSlain]

HB

Maybe US politicians should look out of US tax payers first and not the corporations and people with their bank accounts on tax haven islands. America has the power to be able to pull off protectionism, so it is rational that it would. Even highly skilled jobs eventually can be outsourced abroad, or, if you have open borders, given to foreigners. You can't really sort out labor rights in China from America using neocon free trade policies, so saying outsourcing is universally ethical seems a bit unrealistic.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The majority of US tax payers get a lot more than they pay out. A person making enough money to actually pay a significant amount of taxes isn't at as much of risk of losing their job, because those people generally are more skilled and/or work harder than the average Joe that wishes he could enjoy the prosperity of the 1950s for the rest of his life. What do you think will happen a couple generations from now if China continues to grow and make products for the world to buy? Meaning, for comparison, Japan went from being looked down on in the 60s through the early 80s or so, now they sell items of arguably even higher quality than ours. Outsourcing isn't even required to make Americans lose jobs, as long as you allow other nations to participate in world trade.

We have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, btw.

I don't think we do have the power to pull of protectionism anyways. Shoveling off trillions of dollars to China and Saudi Arabia and elsewhere helps to curb inflation, and the average American is addicted to consumerism.

 

[Nephilim96]

all religions suck, but if people practice in peace, fine. zealots need to fuck off.

 

[arg]

Plenty of people who identify (or identified) as Christian have killed people too. The Ku Klux Klan, in its earlier manifestations, claimed to be doing God's work, and in total the KKK (and similar groups) have killed more Americans than have ISIS (and similar groups). It makes no sense to say that "Christians are the problem."

That was a half-joke, but doesn't it seem like Muslims do most of the killing in the world these days?

ISIS doesn't care if we allow immigration or disallow it, as far as it concerns their capacity for infiltration. It's the same argument regarding banning guns in order to keep them out of the hands of criminals. The point is that they're criminals, and they'll get guns no matter what - likewise, terror cells will find ways to infiltrate, no matter what.

I agree, but we can make it harder for them.

However, my main point is that there is no reason to take in even the ones who are not terrorists.

As with firearms, I'm not in favor of banning them; I'm in favor of regulating them. The same goes for immigration.

I agree on both, but we have different criteria. I'm all for welcoming Indian brain surgeons and Chinese rocket scientists. But NOT the dregs of the earth and taking care of them at my expense.

 

[arg]

A lot of those countries also have booming middle-classes. I don't see why an American is entitled to protection and an easy job when there are Chinese and others willing to work harder and be more productive.

Because I end up paying for the Americans when they go on welfare. Also I work for a corporation and I need Americans to have money so they can our stuff lol