Carpe Mortem
Benevolently Batshit
- Aug 21, 2013
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If Mort Divine ruled the world
- Thread starter Zephyrus
- Start date
Funerary_Doom
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Damn, I literally have like 5 people to respond to. Honestly I'll just link everyone here.
@EternalMetal It's a strawman argument to say it's simply "Islamic terrorist" attack too. I'm over politicians offering "their prayers and good vibes" like that's any help whatsoever. Politicians need to offer policies/ideas/ways to prevent situations like this from occurring and not happen every 3-6 months. Don't tell me nothing about building a wall, or anything dumb that my 8th graders can come up with. The fact of the matter is assault rifles cause way more damage than a regular handgun. If you look at statistics on shootings where the gunman used assault rifles way more people died and or were injured. So @Dak you bringing up someone making a bomb (which is essentially an anomaly based on statistics... I mean come on you can't possibly circumvent everything) and how most shootings are handguns is besides the point. I don't know why any individual feels the need to own an AK-47 rifle, but if they do there should be very strict rules on getting them. I.E. you being on FBI watch and being able to purchase that is plain ridiculous.
@Dak and @HamburgerBoy okay so you've mentioned or showed the same people on this forum known to have more liberal views calling the Planned Parenthood shooting Christian terrorism. So? Doesn't really change the fact that the ones who are quick to jump on the Islamophobia bandwagon here (or arguably anywhere not just users here) are quite bias when it comes to shooters being more stereotypical American. My point wasn't necessarily a critique on the users here (I already know where most of them stand) but in general how bias and hypocritical people are.
Also, anyone can commit any crime and say "it's an act of terror" by throwing whatever affiliated group's name in the mix without affiliation. Honestly, I'm not saying it wasn't religion driven (according to the gunman), but my comment was moreso the Islamophobia that came as a result of this guy even though he was not affiliated with ISIS. There's a lot of evidence to sway that he himself might have been homosexual and self-hating too. Reports of his ex-wife states he was "bipolar" "not very religious" and "abusive." However, you yourself stated that mentally disturbed individuals are a common denominator (which I agree with) in these mass shootings, but the fact that they are able to purchase assault rifles without anybody looking into their pyschosocial where they can kill literally 100s of people at once is not a problem, right? Okay.
@arg So, you know the West isn't just completely innocent to the things that are going on in the world, right? Literally, we have our government to blame for allowing NAFTA to pass which has crippled the economies of many countries, especially Mexico and South America. People wonder why we've seen such an influx in people coming in from Mexico and other South American countries. That's a big part of why. We can't entirely fault them for something our own government helped to cause. Just like we can't fault the Syrian refugees fleeing ISIS when it's plausible that our government and military had some influence with that as well by invading Iraq. You seem to paint this picture that the West are just punching bags to these "developing countries" when they've been playing cards with them for a long while now and fucking them over too.
To be clear, no one is saying guns are the only danger. That would be dumb. However, when every few months there's a mass shooting where assault rifles are involved and people who shouldn't have easy access to these things do... there's a problem.
Edit: Because I got the user names wrong.
@EternalMetal It's a strawman argument to say it's simply "Islamic terrorist" attack too. I'm over politicians offering "their prayers and good vibes" like that's any help whatsoever. Politicians need to offer policies/ideas/ways to prevent situations like this from occurring and not happen every 3-6 months. Don't tell me nothing about building a wall, or anything dumb that my 8th graders can come up with. The fact of the matter is assault rifles cause way more damage than a regular handgun. If you look at statistics on shootings where the gunman used assault rifles way more people died and or were injured. So @Dak you bringing up someone making a bomb (which is essentially an anomaly based on statistics... I mean come on you can't possibly circumvent everything) and how most shootings are handguns is besides the point. I don't know why any individual feels the need to own an AK-47 rifle, but if they do there should be very strict rules on getting them. I.E. you being on FBI watch and being able to purchase that is plain ridiculous.
@Dak and @HamburgerBoy okay so you've mentioned or showed the same people on this forum known to have more liberal views calling the Planned Parenthood shooting Christian terrorism. So? Doesn't really change the fact that the ones who are quick to jump on the Islamophobia bandwagon here (or arguably anywhere not just users here) are quite bias when it comes to shooters being more stereotypical American. My point wasn't necessarily a critique on the users here (I already know where most of them stand) but in general how bias and hypocritical people are.
Also, anyone can commit any crime and say "it's an act of terror" by throwing whatever affiliated group's name in the mix without affiliation. Honestly, I'm not saying it wasn't religion driven (according to the gunman), but my comment was moreso the Islamophobia that came as a result of this guy even though he was not affiliated with ISIS. There's a lot of evidence to sway that he himself might have been homosexual and self-hating too. Reports of his ex-wife states he was "bipolar" "not very religious" and "abusive." However, you yourself stated that mentally disturbed individuals are a common denominator (which I agree with) in these mass shootings, but the fact that they are able to purchase assault rifles without anybody looking into their pyschosocial where they can kill literally 100s of people at once is not a problem, right? Okay.
@arg So, you know the West isn't just completely innocent to the things that are going on in the world, right? Literally, we have our government to blame for allowing NAFTA to pass which has crippled the economies of many countries, especially Mexico and South America. People wonder why we've seen such an influx in people coming in from Mexico and other South American countries. That's a big part of why. We can't entirely fault them for something our own government helped to cause. Just like we can't fault the Syrian refugees fleeing ISIS when it's plausible that our government and military had some influence with that as well by invading Iraq. You seem to paint this picture that the West are just punching bags to these "developing countries" when they've been playing cards with them for a long while now and fucking them over too.
To be clear, no one is saying guns are the only danger. That would be dumb. However, when every few months there's a mass shooting where assault rifles are involved and people who shouldn't have easy access to these things do... there's a problem.
Edit: Because I got the user names wrong.
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Dak
mentat
He worked for the Department of Homeland Security (via contractor, but still). That should be much more concerning. If the DHS can't even vet their own people, how is expanding background checks (via the same general bureaucracy that can't vet its own people) to engage in precrime going to help protect anyone? We already have background checks. They already exist. Somehow people think they don't.
Also, there is no such thing as "assault rifles". Shooters have used semi-automatic firearms, which is the operative mode of most non-shotgun firearms.
arg
Active Member
- Jun 4, 2008
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sure we had a hand in screwing the economy of mexico and destabilizing syria. so fucking what? should regular citizens have to suffer because of the mistakes of our dumbass government? what do we have to gain by letting illegals and refugees in? some fanciful notion of "atonement for our sins" serves no purpose. keep them all the fuck out, build a huge ass wall and stop flying muslims in and dumping them in our cities.
i now strongly believe in some level of protectionism vs absolute free trade
and non-interventionism - stop meddling in other countries' affairs. FORTRESS AMERICA folks, pull our forces back and strengthen our national perimeter. blow threats out of the sky and nuke them from afar.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
I cringed and tuned out the moment I read "Islamophobia," it is really quite pathetic the way this is being turned into a "the poor old Muslims" issue when religiously generated homophobia is the catalyst for this heinous attack.
Also, he was wearing a suicide vest, so he clearly didn't need the gun he had in the end. Explosives are the most common tool of Islamic terrorism.
Also, he was wearing a suicide vest, so he clearly didn't need the gun he had in the end. Explosives are the most common tool of Islamic terrorism.
The Ozzman
Melted by feels
Satanstoenail
My Larpstyle determines my Derpstyle
This is the most ridiculously deluded bunch of bullshit I've ever read.
I'm hearing now that he was a repressed homosex himself. Haven't heard anything about a suicide vest though.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
Only heard that he visited some gay clubs and had a gay app or something. Could just as well mean he was simply scouting possible clubs to attack. Terrorists do that.
If it's true that he was a repressed gay man, religion is still just as much to blame. Islam is hardly known for it's LGBT acceptance nature.
Funerary_Doom
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
@CASSETTEISGOD nowhere did I say that religion was not somewhat to blame. Actually I did say it was a motivation here. My point was that it's not only Islam that motivates people to do these things (as arg and others would have you believe).
Also I didn't say "poor Muslims" or imply that. That was only mentioned when I've read people blaming them for this one man's actions. Though admittedly when a mass shooter is Muslim that always shows up in the argument, which is undeniable. My point is mostly about hypocrisy and the need for more effective regulations on semi automatics.
Edit: you're from Australia so I'm not sure what race relations are like there. Tbh I don't think I've ever met an Australian in real life I didn't like. However, I'm from New York. I see (with kids and adults) how they play out. You seem to dissent on other people's claims of having been singled out for being a minority in some way. It's not made up, and the shit is so real that even other minoritirs are also effective in carrying out the same biases ( hence arg).
Also I didn't say "poor Muslims" or imply that. That was only mentioned when I've read people blaming them for this one man's actions. Though admittedly when a mass shooter is Muslim that always shows up in the argument, which is undeniable. My point is mostly about hypocrisy and the need for more effective regulations on semi automatics.
Edit: you're from Australia so I'm not sure what race relations are like there. Tbh I don't think I've ever met an Australian in real life I didn't like. However, I'm from New York. I see (with kids and adults) how they play out. You seem to dissent on other people's claims of having been singled out for being a minority in some way. It's not made up, and the shit is so real that even other minoritirs are also effective in carrying out the same biases ( hence arg).
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Einherjar86
Active Member
Aug's intellectual capacities extend roughly to the tip of his penis.
(inb4 he starts to brag about how suspiciously well-hung he is)
I have a few comments on the repressed homosexuality issue, which are neither a criticism nor an approval.
The kind of posthumous psychologizing going on across various media platforms right now (and I mean everywhere from CNN to Salon) is not uncommon after attacks like this. I don't want to imply that Mateen's mental health had absolutely nothing to do with his behavior, but construing the matter solely as a mental health issue sets a dangerous precedent - long story short, it threatens to conflate any kind of queer sexuality with unstable mental health. This has long been an unfortunate association in the history of sexuality, and while many will perceive the potential mental imbalance or conflict as a societal symptom rather than a purely cognitive one (i.e. the problem stems from the dynamics of social interaction and inclusion/exclusion, not from some rupture in the brain of a possibly repressed homosexual), many others will tend to (even unconsciously), construct an indiscriminate association between homosexuality and mental illness.
For this reason, I'm wary of the dime-store psychologizing that I'm sure will continue over the weeks to come. It's easy to reduce the situation to the mental stress of a single individual; but we all need to remind ourselves that if we choose to pursue the evidence of repressed homosexuality, then we need to extend the scope of our concerns beyond "mental health."
The Ozzman
Melted by feels
HamburgerBoy
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People only call it Islamophobia because of white/Western guilt. Was "Catholophobia" a thing when it was discovered how infested that religion was with pedophiles? It's natural for people to look for trends, and the trend of Islam and terrorism isn't exactly obscure. We can discuss the other relevant causes behind violence committed by Muslims, and I personally think terrorist attacks like those on the Pentagon or USS Cole are perfectly justified when we're talking about a nation that has been air-striking Muslim countries for decades, but ultimately, Muslims do most of the terroristic killing these days. They kill people here, they kill people in Europe, they kill people in Africa, they kill people in Southeast Asia. The vast majority of ideological violent uprisings and actions are committed by Muslims.
Crazy spree-killers, on the other hand, make up roughly 0.1% of all American gun homicides. If you want to talk about method rather than ideology, this type of killing is a rarity compared to routine gang-related violence. It's pretty debatable whether or not an assault rifle had any bearing, since he apparently kept shooting for hours with no one resisting him, and since there is plenty of history of spree killers getting the job done with just handguns. IIRC (might have been fake, so much stuff about this guy flying around), he was actually a licensed security guard and had undergone and passes psychiatric evaluations in the past, so what tests should be required in order to catch these guys?
HamburgerBoy
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Also, check this out:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...iolent_events_by_death_toll#Terrorist_attacks
Note that one particular ideology wins out.
EDIT: Also, that table is funny because there are a bunch of Muslim-perpetrated attacks not listed as well, e.g. both 'Revenge' examples are Muslims murdering Coptic Christians (a group that is consistently more successful in spite of frequent persecution) in Egypt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...iolent_events_by_death_toll#Terrorist_attacks
Note that one particular ideology wins out.
EDIT: Also, that table is funny because there are a bunch of Muslim-perpetrated attacks not listed as well, e.g. both 'Revenge' examples are Muslims murdering Coptic Christians (a group that is consistently more successful in spite of frequent persecution) in Egypt.
arg
Active Member
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yea man im eating popcorn too, i want to see arguments for:
compassion to illegals and refugees
free trade vs protectionism
military interventionism
Satanstoenail
My Larpstyle determines my Derpstyle
His ex-wife has also said that he had gay tendencies. But yeah who knows.
He also claimed he had connections with and showed support for several extremist organisations that are actually rivals. I mean obviously religion is a large factor here, but I think this guy is just a fucking angry idiot more than anything.
I think the fact that homosexuals are the victims here will counterbalance any association between homosexuality and mental illness that would lead to discrimination, except for maybe among people who are already anti-gay. Plus I don't think anyone really thinks this is solely a mental illness issue.
YEEE HAW LET'S PUT UP A WALL AND BLOW EVERYONE ELSE TO HELL
Sorry, is anyone supposed to reply seriously to your post? What about the 2.75 million Muslims that are already in the country? Don't you think they might be a tad annoyed? And in what sort of mystical fantasy land do the general public not have to pay for the fuckups of the government? And don't you think it's a tad late for America to stop meddling in other's affairs? The fact that there are terrorists in the first place would kinda point towards that, would it not?
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
Aren't all fucktarded religious extremists? I'm an equal opportunity anti-religious person.
HamburgerBoy
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Dunno, I'm pretty sure you could find a dude that admires a bunch of white supremacist gangs and groups that are technically rivals (certainly the KKK and some neo-pagan Nazi gang have different bases for their beliefs), but that doesn't mean when he goes out and kills him some colored folk, he's doing it just because he's stupid. Like yeah sure, this guy probably wasn't the most devout of believers and was attracted to it more because of his own frustrations in life, but you could say that about literally every violent political movement that ever existed. Islam is a great tool for attracting angry fucking idiots.
HamburgerBoy
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This happens all the time. We just destroyed the most successful nation in Africa, Hillary gloating about it as a great achievement, then placing the blame their citizens for not immediately rebuilding it and spreading the good ole American values of muh freedoms and liberties. When do you think we'll actually pay the Libyan people back? The problem is that half of the time we try to fix one of our fuck ups, we just create two new fuck ups. Interventionism is a massive waste of time, and imo mostly a sham to fund corrupt defense agencies/contractors.
I'm a big believer in free trade though.
Satanstoenail
My Larpstyle determines my Derpstyle
I think that's a stretch. I think most of these dickheads are at least devout enough to whatever cause to throw all their eggs in one basket. This guy just seems to show support for anyone who blew anything up.
I'm not going to argue with you there.
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