If Mort Divine ruled the world

[Dak]

Oh certainly, but I'm not suggesting there's no deterrent. I think that in some if not most cases there certainly is. I'm only commenting on the effectiveness of open- vs. concealed-carry, as you suggested earlier. The difference in that case, to me, seems negligible. In other words, I don't really see how concealed-carry acts as a stronger deterrent than open-carry.

Fear of the unknown. But that's just a guess. It's not that the concealed carry itself is a deterrent. Legalized concealed carry means anyone could be carrying (even if no one is). Creates planning problems. With open carry, you know exactly who is and who isn't. I would much rather only CC be legal than only OC.

 

[Einherjar86]

Yes, I get the theoretical reasons behind the distinction; but as I said a few posts ago, I don't really think open-carry is going to enable a potential gunman to effectively identify every firearm in the vicinity - or, more importantly, to know whether or not he has.

We've seen a lot of shooters going into movie theaters and nightclubs. Even if people are wearing guns on their hips, it's going to be very difficult to spot them, let alone be certain that you've spotted all of them. I would think that the uncertainty still exists in an open-carry environment.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

I'm sure it does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-generation_immigrants_in_the_United_States

Wikipedia? Come on man.

 

[arg]

we really need to get rid of birthright citizenship or at least make it highly conditional

 

[SentinelSlain]

I think that about the UK too. There are too many people who hate everything to do with us but are "British". If them being involved in stuff like radical islamism or rioting and so on actually barred them from getting citizenship (let's say an immigrants kids can only apply for it in adulthood, say 25) then it would certain cut the wheat from the chafe.

 

[arg]

i think for immigrant parents a long term work visa should be required in order for their kid to be recognized as an american citizen at birth. (maybe student or tourist visa but if and only if their credentials and qualifications are fucking amazing)

and the following should automatically disqualify someone from birthright citizenship

- parents are illegal border crossers
- parents are visa overstayers
- parents have even the slightest terrorist connection (they must declare the pregnancy and undergo a full international background check and any red flag gets their asses deported)

seems fair yeah?

 

[SentinelSlain]

Tbh I think there should be a minimum IQ for immigrants to become citizens in the UK, they should also have a clean criminal record in their previous country and references from British people outside of their cultural group, if they are not of British ancestry, who also have a good background. Their children should only get citizen ship after they have separately applied for it, at 25, after not committing any crimes or being involved with any radical islamism or anything like that. If they apply and fail, they have to leave, there's no re-application process. That might sound harsh, but foreigners would get the idea. The way it is at the moment, people just swear at immigration staff and brag that they hate this country.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Wikipedia? Come on man.

lol, he pointed out where it's a legitimate, widely-used term by neutral bodies of authority on the matter and all you can do is complain about it being a Wikipedia link. Do you seriously think there is no real-life consequence of being the child of immigrants versus being a great-great-great-great grandchild of immigrants? And I don't just mean crime or terrorism or whatever, sociologists have been studying this shit for a long time now in terms of bilingualism, cultural differences between home/family and school/friends, etcetc.

 

[Dak]

Wikipedia? Come on man.

I guess the citations were all from Breitbart?

Edit: Btw my wife is 2nd gen immigrant on her mom's side and 3rd gen from her dad's side. Almost all my inlaws/extended family fall into 1st/2nd/3rd gen immigrant status. But what do I know about immigrants.

 

[Funerary_Doom]

Just leaving .2cents here in lieu of the craziness and all the debate about gun control and stuff from the recent Orlando shootings. Personally, I believe our greatest strength as a people in the United States is our diversity. When people take events that happened in Orlando to further their own political agenda (i.e. Donald Trump using it to further perpetrate Islamophobia...) in the wake of the shootings of the Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood, no one threw around the term "Christian extremist" but of course it's thrown around in this situation.

As logic stands, the only common denominator in mass shootings is assault rifles. Not race, not religion.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Pretty sure the assault rifles that the radical Muslims used in Paris a few months ago weren't legal.

People definitely threw that term around regarding the Colorado thing btw (although in fairness some tried to deny that it was Christian terrorism as well).

Funny timing that a white terrorist is apparently taking hostages in a Planned Parenthood right now.

Aside from domestic cases like abortion clinic killers, it just doesn't happen as much from other religions, especially non-Abrahamic ones.

Christian terrorism attack bro.

I love it. Literally, one day after everyone acts like I'm making up "Chrisitan terrorism" there's a Chrisitian terrorism attack.

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

It's just a rifle...
I have one of said rifles. Nothing assault about it. Just that it's black. ooohhh!!! mean bad black rifles!

 

[Dak]

Just leaving .2cents here in lieu of the craziness and all the debate about gun control and stuff from the recent Orlando shootings. Personally, I believe our greatest strength as a people in the United States is our diversity. When people take events that happened in Orlando to further their own political agenda (i.e. Donald Trump using it to further perpetrate Islamophobia...) in the wake of the shootings of the Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood, no one threw around the term "Christian extremist" but of course it's thrown around in this situation.

As logic stands, the only common denominator in mass shootings is assault rifles. Not race, not religion.

But "assault rifles" aren't the only weapon used. The VT shooter used pistols. The Boston bombers used pressure cookers. McVeigh used a truck sized load of fertilizer. But you remember the "assault rifles" because they look extra dangerous because movies and tv. If action movies used pressure cookers for all the action scenes where stuff blows up you'd probably start steering clear of that aisle in a store.

"Diversity is our strength" is an empty bromide; "diversity" is not a homogeneous suite, and comes in different degrees. Strength is relative.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

What's the number exactly? assault rifles vs everything else? if we were to gather all the attacks since say 1950 or something like that. any stats on this?

 

[Dak]

What's the number exactly? assault rifles vs everything else? if we were to gather all the attacks since say 1950 or something like that. any stats on this?

You'd need a definition for "assault rifle" and "attacks".

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

um go with the consensus as far as the rifle goes (whether it's the right or wrong definition) and for attacks I'd say people dying or the intent to kill

 

[Dak]

um go with the consensus as far as the rifle goes (whether it's the right or wrong definition) and for attacks I'd say people dying or the intent to kill

So every time someone killed another person with an AR-15? There wouldn't be stats for verbal threats to do so. Also the first version of this rifle didn't become available for civilian purchase until 1963.

Edit btw:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-had-a-hand-in-americas-worst-mass-shooting/

Known to the masses as an “AR-15 assault rifle” and frequently misnamed as a “machine gun,” the AR-15 is sold mostly as a semiautomatic weapon only, meaning one pull of the trigger equates to one bullet leaving the barrel. An assault rifle, by definition, means that the weapon is fully automatic.

Second edit: The pic at the end might be an "AR-15", but it's a short barrel variant based on the M4, not the M16.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

well just victims, not like defense or anything. but yea i'll just shut up and read the article thx

 

[arg]

Just leaving .2cents here in lieu of the craziness and all the debate about gun control and stuff from the recent Orlando shootings. Personally, I believe our greatest strength as a people in the United States is our diversity.

wrong. our greatest strength used to be having the strongest economy, where major technological advancements used to be made first, and having the most powerful military. all of those can exist without diversity. diversity in and of itself is neither a plus nor a minus. in some ways it has weakened us though.

 

[CiG]

I believe our greatest strength as a people in the United States is our diversity.

That's literally what every person from a western nation thinks. What does diversity in this context actually mean though? Skin colour? Culture?

no one threw around the term "Christian extremist" but of course it's thrown around in this situation.

Factually not true, I remember what was said when that happened quite well. In fact, people (like you just did) are still bringing up the extremist Christian abortion clinic attacks as a way to deflect the Islamic nature of many attacks since.