If Mort Divine ruled the world

[HamburgerBoy]

I'm sorry but George Zimmerman is a piece of shit degenerate. People were quick to whip out Alton Sterling's crime list (a bunch of minor crimes aside from sleeping with the 17 y/o but also something that most likely happens quite frequently too but doesn't mean he deserved to die while surrendering), but what about Zimmerman's? He got charged with battery a few times and even sold the gun he used to kill Trayvon for a quarter of a million. He was not a cop and should not have been following this teen in the first place. He got beat up, couldn't handle it, and shot him. That's wrong any way you swing it. He went way too far.

Zimmerman revealed himself to be an idiot (or at least a hothead) after the trial, but it was Martin that followed and assaulted Zimmerman by surprise (admitted by Martin's girlfriend). After some ~30 seconds of screaming for help (witnessed and recorded by neighbors calling 911) with the piece of shit hitting him, he fired a single shot in self-defense. I'm glad he sold that gun for a lot of money and hope it puts Martin's parents that much closer to having an aneurysm for raising such a worthless child and creating a bullshit movement designed primarily to take away a person's right to protect themselves from assault.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

George Zimmerman resisted arrest and has a slew of assault, battery charges, and attempted rape from his girlfriend and wife. He also had a record before shooting and murdering Trayvon Martin. Nobody stated that he was a thug or a threat to society.

Why should dangerous people like him be able to take it upon themselves to follow, harass and assault people, ultimately resulting in their death? That's nonsense and a classic example of what's wrong with society if you believe Alton Sterling was a threat (selling illegal bullshit) and not George Zimmermann.

iirc some of those charges were later dropped and likely invented, and certainly they weren't proven. If a woman would like to date and later shoot Zimmerman out of self-defense, I am totally for that. Martin was proven a subhuman with a wealth of evidence against him, the worst kind of barbarian that had nothing to give to society but theft and violence, and should have had his worthless corpse displayed as a warning to all others that think they can randomly assault people and get away with it.

Alton Sterling had resisted arrest and was armed. The video quality isn't the greatest from what I've seen so maybe lawyers will be able to prove he wasn't going for his gun at all, but if you're going to do basic illegal shit like selling bootlegs or loose cigs, then fess up to it and take your basic illegal shit punishment, don't fight the officers.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

That was the first time the term was used but it was not the first event where it needed to be used. It came about because of other events that happened before that in addition to that. Also calling that boy's life nothing is pretty brutal there...

His life was actually worth less than nothing; Zimmerman did society a net good by killing him. He grew up in a cozy middle/upper class neighborhood from what I can tell, yet still thought it would be cooler to go around breaking into homes and assaulting neighborhood watchmen. He symbolizes everything that is backwards about BLM.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I don't understand the thing above white cops vs black cops; black cops disproportionately kill blacks as well (see: Freddie Gray), and there are definitely studies out there showing that blacks in positions of economic power (e.g. car dealers, prospective employers) prejudge blacks as well. The reason that happens, and not as much to Asians or whatever, has nothing to do with the relative abundance of those groups, but the simple reality that many black communities have a ridiculous crime problem.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Was Roderick Scott a "murderer"?

 

[Dak]

Another video of the Sterling shooting is out.

 

[The Ozzman]

Another video of the Sterling shooting is out.

Nothing of value was lost, but yeah those cops deserve to be in prison

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Does that make three videos now? The first two both had his right arm obscured, which would hide whether or not he would be able to access his gun.

EDIT: Actually, just saw a slowed down version of the second video, which does show his right hand empty and open, then grabbed by the officer without the gun, which then appears to be wrestled free and put near his person. If he was shot moving his hand to his waistband, tough shit, that was a stupid move.

 

[Einherjar86]

I'd like to see how much control over your body you'd have while getting the shit pummeled out of you.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Where does he get pummeled? He gets thrown onto a hood, then dragged to the ground. The officer on his upper torso holds him down with both arms, until he pulls his gun out. The one trying to hold the limbs doesn't appear to do much beating either, mostly just grabbing and sitting on him. In fact, I don't know that I see a single punch during the entire time he's on the ground.

 

[Einherjar86]

Thrown onto the hood of a car, thrown to the grown, wrists grabbed, sat on... sure, no shit-kicking going on. I'm sure he was in complete control of his body at that point.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Do you think it's a sound policy to always wait for an armed felon to actually put a gun into his hand before shooting him? Like, hand onto the grip, gun out of the holster, gun pointed at an officer, when is it OK to assume he has violent intent?

 

[Einherjar86]

Interesting question... But an entirely different argument, no?

 

[Dak]

I think all this is a media driven distraction from the fact the Hillary was completely outed in Congressional testimony as a bold-faced liar and on top of it has so far faced no consequences, but is still being considered for the highest elected office in the land. Anyone with half a brain knows she hasn't an ethical bone in her body. There's barely a dime's worth of difference between zero police accountability and zero elected official/bureaucrat accountability.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Interesting question... But an entirely different argument, no?

I thought the argument was whether or not the cop was justified in shooting Alton Sterling. The justification for cops killing people comprises a spectrum of opinions, ranging from "Cops are always justified in shooting people" to "Cops are never justified in shooting people", 99.9% of views falling somewhere in the middle of the two. In the nebulous "Sometimes justified", the most obvious metric by which to justify a cop's killing is to perform a risk-benefit analysis regarding human life, asking namely "Was the cop's risk of death high enough to justify lethal force?" Thus, exactly part of the argument.

I would argue that since the cops knew he was armed from the initial call to the police, and that since they initiated with non-lethal force (they tased him and attempted to subdue him for at least roughly 20 seconds), the mere presence of a gun on Sterling did not induce them to shoot him. Therefore, it seems reasonable that they at least made an attempt to arrest him with non-lethal force, and that they weren't just simply warming up them a couple-a black-shootin' chubbies. The video shows clear evidence that the suspect's right hand, the hand which would be used to unholster a gun, had gone free at least twice during the struggle. Thus, he had ability both physically and materially to shoot cops. He may not have had that intent, maybe he was just flailing around because he's a stupid guy that had been in trouble with the law many times before, but until evidence surfaces contradicting what is available, I'd say lethal force was perfectly justifiable.

The best thing to come out in Sterling's defense right now would be if footage was shown at the very start of the encounter. If it is revealed that the cops basically sucker-punched him out of the blue with no provocation, then tased him and threw him to the ground and shot him, I wouldn't be opposed to the cops being charged with murder. I'm a little doubtful of that considering he was apparently reported for brandishing his gun at a homeless guy (unless they can prove the homeless guy begged for money in a violent or threatening manner), which tells me he probably likes waving his gun around and unjustifiably using violence to pressure others.

 

[Dak]

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler

Context.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

^ Yeah, regarding point 3 from that list, this is what some people consider "unarmed":

 

[Dak]

Yeah, the mentally ill homeless persons are a significantly difficult population to deal with from any angle you want to start with. But BLM's hamfisted analysis doesn't do anyone even tangentially involved any good.

 

[Einherjar86]

I thought the argument was whether or not the cop was justified in shooting Alton Sterling. The justification for cops killing people comprises a spectrum of opinions, ranging from "Cops are always justified in shooting people" to "Cops are never justified in shooting people", 99.9% of views falling somewhere in the middle of the two. In the nebulous "Sometimes justified", the most obvious metric by which to justify a cop's killing is to perform a risk-benefit analysis regarding human life, asking namely "Was the cop's risk of death high enough to justify lethal force?" Thus, exactly part of the argument.

I would argue that since the cops knew he was armed from the initial call to the police, and that since they initiated with non-lethal force (they tased him and attempted to subdue him for at least roughly 20 seconds), the mere presence of a gun on Sterling did not induce them to shoot him. Therefore, it seems reasonable that they at least made an attempt to arrest him with non-lethal force, and that they weren't just simply warming up them a couple-a black-shootin' chubbies. The video shows clear evidence that the suspect's right hand, the hand which would be used to unholster a gun, had gone free at least twice during the struggle. Thus, he had ability both physically and materially to shoot cops. He may not have had that intent, maybe he was just flailing around because he's a stupid guy that had been in trouble with the law many times before, but until evidence surfaces contradicting what is available, I'd say lethal force was perfectly justifiable.

The best thing to come out in Sterling's defense right now would be if footage was shown at the very start of the encounter. If it is revealed that the cops basically sucker-punched him out of the blue with no provocation, then tased him and threw him to the ground and shot him, I wouldn't be opposed to the cops being charged with murder. I'm a little doubtful of that considering he was apparently reported for brandishing his gun at a homeless guy (unless they can prove the homeless guy begged for money in a violent or threatening manner), which tells me he probably likes waving his gun around and unjustifiably using violence to pressure others.

Our argument was concerning something very specific: whether or not a human being would be in control of his/her limbs during a violent altercation.

Sterling was thrown to the ground and then tased... tased. Why should he be in control of his limbs if he's actively being electrocuted? Why shouldn't a police officer think about this?

Seems to me as though these cops expected an inhuman amount of self-control from a likely terrified, partially incapacitated, and physically electrocuted person.

It has nothing to do with "racebaiting" at this point - I'm just not convinced these cops acted rationally or professionally.

 

[Dak]

Tasing is not a foolproof manner of incapacitating a person.

http://www.tricitytribuneusa.com/tasers-not-always-100-percent-effective/

The closer the shot, the less effective. It can be mitigated by contact with clothing/belt/etc. Mr. Sterling was ~300lbs (at slightly under 6', probably significantly fat) and a known drug user. Either one of those may also have an effect on the effectiveness of the Taser.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/consumer-electronics/gadgets/how-a-taser-works

Even assuming partial lack of control of his arm, this is no less concerning if a loaded weapon was (and it was) in that pocket. A firearm can be discharged through a pocket, whether grasped from the interior or the exterior(depending on the type of pants material/tightness of fit).

In other news, Castile was shot by a minority (Asian) cop, not a white cop (edit: which now explains why that shooting is getting much less attention, even though possibly more problematic from a protocol perspective).