Baroque
Active Member
You're surely an intelligent dude but it wouldn't hurt to make your points a bit more concisely.
If Mort Divine ruled the world
- Thread starter Zephyrus
- Start date
Dak
mentat
I always kind of understood Pat's general position as being that points are problematic 
Edit: For the record (like it's a surprise), Dr. Loury echos the position that I hold, and generally the position the two other eminent black econ professors (Williams and Sowell) hold.
Edit: For the record (like it's a surprise), Dr. Loury echos the position that I hold, and generally the position the two other eminent black econ professors (Williams and Sowell) hold.
Last edited:
Einherjar86
Active Member
But Loury basically acknowledges the difficulty of the challenge posed by material conditions, which the interviewer asks about in his final question. Loury's response is that it's "a very difficult question." He then offers the following conclusion:
The appeal to morality looks like a sidestep to me, in a larger intellectual sense. I don't think Loury would deny that he's making a judgment call at this point, but his position basically boils down to: "I believe this because it makes me feel better." That's an unfair reduction I'm sure, but it's all he really offers in this interview.
The appeal to morality looks like a sidestep to me, in a larger intellectual sense. I don't think Loury would deny that he's making a judgment call at this point, but his position basically boils down to: "I believe this because it makes me feel better." That's an unfair reduction I'm sure, but it's all he really offers in this interview.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
Dak
mentat
I think it's an unfair reduction because Loury is looking at what is helping vs hindering. This ties in directly with psychology (which, when we take a Austrian perspective of economics makes perfect sense). If I am assessing a patient, I have to take historical factors into account. However, they cannot be changed, attenuated, etc. While they may have varying degrees of relation to the current problem (even up to significant), they most likely have a negligible effect on the treatment selection. It is the current problem that can effectively be acted upon successfully. Not what happened x number of decades ago. History "reified" if you will, functionally, is a hindrance to improvement of any given situation.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Is there any psychological benefit to acknowledging the role that historical conditions might play in a patient's current situation? It seems that placing the burden entirely on a patient - i.e. it's your fault that you're here and it's your responsibility to get out of it - could be as detrimental as foregrounding one's historical conditioning.
In a sense, I would say that undergoing psychological treatment is already a step in the right direction, since psychologists try to help their patients understand the dynamics of their current situations, and thereby help them realize their own potential despite the historical hardships they've faced, perhaps even unconsciously. I wouldn't recommend telling a patient "There's nothing you can do"; but it seems that uncovering the uncontrollable of a patient's past is exactly what enables them to realize their own agency.
In a sense, I would say that undergoing psychological treatment is already a step in the right direction, since psychologists try to help their patients understand the dynamics of their current situations, and thereby help them realize their own potential despite the historical hardships they've faced, perhaps even unconsciously. I wouldn't recommend telling a patient "There's nothing you can do"; but it seems that uncovering the uncontrollable of a patient's past is exactly what enables them to realize their own agency.
Dak
mentat
It's not about placing a burden regarding the past in this sort of situation, to use that terminology. It's about giving the patient tools to improve the situation to the degree that they can, and absent being chained to a bed or whatever, people can take steps to improve their situations.
Baroque
Active Member
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
How is one's racial/cultural/ethnic history the same as one's past? That made little sense to me.
Also, how is addressing past hardships that aren't directly in that person's past (ie "legacy of slavery") going to help someone in the now, beyond turning them into "let's dismantle the whole system" types?
Also, how is addressing past hardships that aren't directly in that person's past (ie "legacy of slavery") going to help someone in the now, beyond turning them into "let's dismantle the whole system" types?
Last edited:
Einherjar86
Active Member
Sure, but I feel like one of those tools is a heightened awareness of the forces that shape our existence, whether they be personal or historical.
PhD departments in general are more focused, even those left-wing nutjob humanities ones, like the one of which I'm a part.
What school are you attending?
At this point, I'm simply suggesting that there is an analogy to be made between the determining forces in a patient's individual past and the determining forces in a generic group of people's historical past.
I don't think that psychological practices are applicable in the second case, but I do think they can help members of any given group at an individual level. In the second case, I still think it's important to retain knowledge of historical factors purely in order to identify their impact on the present, even if we can't appeal to those factors as a viable solution to current problems.
Dak
mentat
I don't know how, at this point, someone in one of the identity politics' aggrieved groups wouldn't have some sort of awareness about a history of oppression, however accurately or inaccurately conceived.
Einherjar86
Active Member
While that may be true, I'm not sure that an over-emphasis of, or over-reliance upon, certain explanations on the part of one camp warrants or justifies a reactionary resistance toward such explanations on the part of another.
Baroque
Active Member
Sure, but I feel like one of those tools is a heightened awareness of the forces that shape our existence, whether they be personal or historical.
PhD departments in general are more focused, even those left-wing nutjob humanities ones, like the one of which I'm a part.
What school are you attending?
At this point, I'm simply suggesting that there is an analogy to be made between the determining forces in a patient's individual past and the determining forces in a generic group of people's historical past.
I don't think that psychological practices are applicable in the second case, but I do think they can help members of any given group at an individual level. In the second case, I still think it's important to retain knowledge of historical factors purely in order to identify their impact on the present, even if we can't appeal to those factors as a viable solution to current problems.
Heh, I'd prefer to spare what little anonymity I have left, but I'll say it's one of the UC schools. What field of humanities are you in?
Einherjar86
Active Member
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
I have no problem with people retaining knowledge of history, but at this point it seems like it's being demanded of people to no actually helpful conclusion. Especially when it's usually not done with any bipartisan intention but usually with an agenda.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
I honestly don't understand these situations, are these environments really so "PC" that it forces people to become non-combative when some idiot is treating you like this?
Dak
mentat
Successful minorities are a threat to the livlihood and recognition of grievance provocateurs. Of course they are also a threat to white nationalists etc. Politics and strange bedfellows eh?
rms
Active Member
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...-brutality-hire-female-cops-article-1.2737314
Stumbled across this 25 ways to fix the police but I wonder if he feels a little dumb now
Stumbled across this 25 ways to fix the police but I wonder if he feels a little dumb now
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
Baroque
Active Member
Why are the overwhelming majority in these "good" majors asians and white people? It's just a fact, look around a graduate student in stats classroom. or math. or physics. Nearly/All asians or white people. I believe any race can do the work, why don't they attempt it?
Similar threads
