If Mort Divine ruled the world
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Baroque
Active Member
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
I was just being facetious, because it seems like a lot of non-Asian, non-white people go into the social sciences and then complain about the lack of "diversity" in the "good" majors you're talking about.
Obviously it's not that simple though.
Dak
mentat
Races don't do work. Individuals do. You can't randomly pluck anyone off the street and shove them in a graduate program. Even with all the vetting, selected people don't always graduate. If people don't want to be in a program, that would have an effect on their likelihood of success.
Einherjar86
Active Member
This.
Anybody from any race "can" do the work, but that doesn't mean that any twenty-two year-old (or however old you are when you enter a grad program) is prepared and equipped to do the work. Grad level study isn't something that just anyone can step into. And it just so happens that those who tend to be "prepared and equipped" also tend to be from particular demographics. Not going to get into the particulars of why that's the case, but it is the case.
Carpe Mortem
Benevolently Batshit
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I started school again for the first time in about five years, and it's given me a bit of a theory in relation the above. When you're working your ass off to pay bills or get ahead in life, intellectual improvement tends to fall by the wayside. I'm in a pretty basic algebra class and it isn't effortless, it's actually difficult for me and time consuming. And I made algebra my bitch in high school.
A lot of non-white, non-Asian people tend to be a wee bit downtrodden and forced into employment responsibility at a younger age like I was. And who the hell has time for all the difficult, critical thinking homework that even the most basic math or science class entails when there's bills to pay? Especially when your life and mind have been geared for years towards just working your job and making a paycheck? You can get an okay career with those easier social degrees. You'll never be impressive, but it is less time consuming, and you'll still come out further than not getting a degree.
A lot of non-white, non-Asian people tend to be a wee bit downtrodden and forced into employment responsibility at a younger age like I was. And who the hell has time for all the difficult, critical thinking homework that even the most basic math or science class entails when there's bills to pay? Especially when your life and mind have been geared for years towards just working your job and making a paycheck? You can get an okay career with those easier social degrees. You'll never be impressive, but it is less time consuming, and you'll still come out further than not getting a degree.
Carpe Mortem
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I know that seems like a pretty basic commentary if you break it down to privilege, but I feel a lot of folks focus on privilege as financial or social only. There's a whole different mindset between someone who has to work and someone who can afford not to.
Dak
mentat
I would argue that if you need quick + money, a social science degree is the worst way to go.
Carpe Mortem
Benevolently Batshit
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Maybe it depends on the area and your application of the degree but I've been trolling job boards for years and see the qualifications for related positions all the time. Medicaid assistance, domestic abuse admins, etc etc. Asking associates in human resources and social sciences usually.
I think you're interpreting it as the part of the spectrum SJW's linger.
I think you're interpreting it as the part of the spectrum SJW's linger.
Dak
mentat
Baroque
Active Member
I know trying to assign causation, especially in a racial context, is a dangerous game. I think the why in this case is still very important though, the problem must be fully described before it can be solved. There are social "scientists" who blame systemic racism as the cause, but I don't think that is entirely the case. There are definitely opportunities for black students to be in a phd statistics program for example, but there is not a single one at my school. This is at a school which is statistically one of the top 10 most diverse universities in the nation. A school which advocates diversity in acceptance policies and would be more than happy to accept a black phd stats student to show off how diverse they are. The fact is, either none applied, or none had the qualifications. Why?
I think Emily made a good point, but I also think there are more factors than just those. Perhaps cultural, the way parents raise their kids, etc. I can't seem to put my finger on the exact cause though.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Well, I agree that the "why" is important, I just know how the argument is probably going to go...
Personally, I don't think there's only one cause. I think there is probably an unfortunate combination of factors, but I think the most likely one has to do with economic disparities among black families since the nineteenth century. I won't even call this "systemic racism" - I'll just chalk it up to the historical contingencies of American slavery.
That opportunities for black graduate students exist doesn't necessarily mean that a wide number of black students are aware of such opportunities, or that their background has fostered any interest in applying to such programs. I think we see so few black graduate students because higher education, especially graduate school, resonates overwhelmingly with wealthy and upper-middle class families, and occasionally with students from lower-middle class families; and these tend to be white.
Personally, I don't think there's only one cause. I think there is probably an unfortunate combination of factors, but I think the most likely one has to do with economic disparities among black families since the nineteenth century. I won't even call this "systemic racism" - I'll just chalk it up to the historical contingencies of American slavery.
That opportunities for black graduate students exist doesn't necessarily mean that a wide number of black students are aware of such opportunities, or that their background has fostered any interest in applying to such programs. I think we see so few black graduate students because higher education, especially graduate school, resonates overwhelmingly with wealthy and upper-middle class families, and occasionally with students from lower-middle class families; and these tend to be white.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
The single parent household in the black community is much more prevalent than the two parent household and is practically a guarantee of certain economic hardships regardless of race, two parent black families have a poverty rate of 7%, it seems to me that one of the biggest barriers here is the fact that most black people grow up with one parent, usually one that doesn't work.
Baroque
Active Member
This would make sense but it is also the case that there are no Mexican students in the program, in an area with an overwhelmingly large Mexican population. A culture that traditionally has two parents as well.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
I remember reading something a year ago that claimed Mexican immigrants, Hispanics and Latino people tend to fill other areas like the trades, but I'd have to get back to you on that.
Dak
mentat
Hispanics (particularly ruralized) generally have a cultural disdain for higher ed. That might be starting to shift, but it's there looming in the background.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/28/5-facts-about-latinos-and-education/
Notice the 2 year college trend. I guarantee the bulk of those are specific skills degrees or certs.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/28/5-facts-about-latinos-and-education/
Notice the 2 year college trend. I guarantee the bulk of those are specific skills degrees or certs.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
All the news I'm seeing and hearing about the Charlotte riots is kinda crazy. Saw the footage of the random white guy in the parking lot being beaten up and head-kicked by a group of black "protesters."
Dak
mentat
rms
Active Member
just waiting on the video for that one, but the Tulsa one is undefendable from the police's perspective imo
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