If Mort Divine ruled the world

[CiG]

There's enough irrationality to go around right now, without it infecting the damn scientific community too.

 

[Dak]

Well, a lot of people are angry, myself included. And anger can inspire irrationality. It might not be the most effective method, but if it makes Trump cut science spending out of spite, well... then I'm going to start marching to impeach his ass.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/commentary-everybody-thinks-theyre-losing/

 

[Einherjar86]

Well, between the backlash against Stephen Colbert and the recent Hypatia controversy (not to mention some of the backlash against Dave Chappelle's recent routines), political correctness is beginning to devour its own tail.

For those unfamiliar with the Hypatia controversy, here's a link: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/05/transracialism-article-controversy.html

Tuvel’s article rebuts a number of the arguments against transracialism, and it’s clear, throughout, that Tuvel herself is firmly in support of trans people and trans rights. Her argument is not that being transracial is the same as being transgender — rather, it’s “that similar arguments that support transgenderism support transracialism,” as she puts it in an important endnote we’ll return to. It’s clear, from the way Tuvel sets things up, that she’s prodding us to more carefully examine why we feel the way we do about Dolezal, not to question trans rights or trans identities.

Usually, an article like this, abstract and argumentatively complex as it is, wouldn’t attract all that much attention outside of its own academic subculture. But that isn’t what happened here — instead, Tuvel is now bearing the brunt of a massive internet witch-hunt, abetted in part by Hypatia’s refusal to stand up for her. The journal has already apologized for the article, despite the fact that it was approved through its normal editorial process, and Tuvel’s peers are busily wrecking her reputation by sharing all sorts of false claims about the article that don’t bear the scrutiny of even a single close read.

 

[CiG]

Good riddance.

 

[Einherjar86]

Perhaps, but what concerns me is whether articles like Tuvel's will survive the culture war. I've read some academics who support the backlash, and who think the article shouldn't have been published. That's disturbing to me.

For what it's worth, I also know plenty of academics whose opinions fall generally along the same lines as the New York Mag piece--i.e. that Tuvel's article is neither hostile nor dismissive, but tries to engage the trans-identitarian discourse. Some critics have accused her of brushing over four or five subfields with nary a mention; but no single piece can cover every possible perspective, and it's the responsibility of a vibrant and professional discursive tradition to make readers aware of these details--not to attack the author and say the article should be removed and read by no one.

Long story short, it's a disappointing day for academia.

For me personally, the discrepancies and/or disparities between transgender and trans-race (I'm still unsure about this term, to be honest) raise numerous question that deserve to asked, mainly concerning what I see as the dissonant attitude toward identity in today's political climate. Clearly there's a difference between gender and race, which Tuvel notes. She's interested in where claims to/about identity seem to correspond between them. It's worth pondering these commonalities and pursuing their logical ends. Academic journals are, in my opinion, one of the best places to have these conversations.

 

[rms]

i'm going to read this tuvel article in a second, and I imagine the Colbert reference is about Trump being gay with Putin, but the anti-trans race is easy. If we decide that being black is more than just being black, then black identity falls apart. And black identity doesn't want to fall apart, as this 'trick' they do, as in uniting all black people under one experience, makes them a weaker political and social group

 

[Dak]

Long story short, it's a disappointing day for academia.

I'm still internally debating whether reduced expectations reduces acute instances of disappointment absolutely or rather it simply allows for the disappointment to be chronic and latent rather than acute and manifest.

 

[Cythraul]

That Hypatia controversy is so unbelievably fucking stupid. The article that these pieces of shit are complaining about just makes a standard kind of argument that is made all the fucking time in academic philosophy. The same sort of argument has been made to show that you have to accept infanticide if you think abortion is okay. Yet these whiners never made a peep about that. The only reason it's a controversy is that trannies are suddenly, for no fucking good reason at all, supposed to be STUNNING and BRAVE.

Moreover, they are applying "standards" (if feminist "philosophers" could be said to have standards) to this article that are never applied elsewhere. Oh, she failed to cite some obscure corner of academic literature that nobody in academic philosophy (besides idiot feminist "philosophers") takes seriously otherwise. Wow! The whole motivation behind the attack on the article is political. The claim that it has anything to do with academic rigor doesn't pass the laugh test.

 

[Dak]

https://judithcurry.com/2017/04/22/untangling-the-march-for-science/

Good overview.

 

[rms]

(4) She refers to “a male-to- female (mtf) trans individual who could return to male privilege,” promoting the harmful transmisogynistic ideology that trans women have (at some point had) male privilege.

HAHA YES. Finally! I can now say I no longer possess white privilege because I did not grow up wealthy. Been waiting a long time to distance myself from those beneficial whites

 

[Dak]

HAHA YES. Finally! I can now say I no longer possess white privilege because I did not grow up wealthy. Been waiting a long time to distance myself from those beneficial whites

I've argued that before but those bigots never agree.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I'm just waiting for the day manlets such as myself have our lack of privilege recognized.

 

[rms]

I've argued that before but those bigots never agree.

I bet that science march didn't advocate have any signs about logic

it's embarrassing when goofy ass fox news people can point out the logical problems of transrace and transgender. this piece was great, I think i'm going to use this in my journo class on monday. We had some dude talk on monday night about Islam/jihad and the student president is in my class talking about how hate speech isn't protected in public spheres

and i'm just like "what country am I in again?"

 

[Einherjar86]

https://judithcurry.com/2017/04/22/untangling-the-march-for-science/

Good overview.

The march for science was totally political. Why is that a bad thing?

 

[CiG]

The march for science was totally political. Why is that a bad thing?

Good or bad, why are so many people in such denial about it being political?

 

[rms]

The march for science was totally political. Why is that a bad thing?

the influence of political bias on "science" (or rationally based thought) should make this obvious?

 

[EternalMetal]

The Hypatia controversy is what happens when an entire academic community accidentally proceeds down a slippery slope. The acceptance of transgenderism being what I am referring to. Tuvel seems to be objectively pointing out that transitioning from one biological trait to another is equivalent, despite current sensitivities to the issue. She tried as hard as possible to be PC about it, and even passes a peer review, but people want nothing to do with Dolezal's delusions (or any other similar case of transracialism), and thus she becomes ostracized. Ok, race and gender are not entirely equivocal, but as Tuvel has probably pointed out in her paper (I havent read the original text), there are probably too many profound similarities to accept one based on [philosophical inquiry] while uncritically rejecting the other. Considering that I am of the position that transgenderism is a mental health issue, I find this whole situation to be rather laughable. A man thinking he should have been born with a vagina, ok, but a white person thinking they should have been born black? You have gone too far! What an insane problem for what is considered a legitimate field in academia.

As for the science march, hasnt the issue with science funding been resolved already?

 

[Einherjar86]

the influence of political bias on "science" (or rationally based thought) should make this obvious?

The idea that science could be politically unbiased is a pipe dream.

And it's also clear that science and governance are closely intertwined. In fact, I'd argue that government-funded research is potentially less biased than privately-funded research.

 

[Dak]

The idea that science could be politically unbiased is a pipe dream.

And it's also clear that science and governance are closely intertwined. In fact, I'd argue that government-funded research is potentially less biased than privately-funded research.

Your inability to incorporate the first statement into the following statement shows the level of your intellectual indoctrination (including your assumption/insistence that the nonscientific nature of your major has scientific relevance). Good Day on this.

 

[The Ozzman]

I am of the position that transgenderism is a mental health issue

I agree with you, Doc