If Mort Divine ruled the world

[CiG]

Jesus you're autistic.

Fidel Castro gets a larger proportion of criticism because he also gets a larger proportion of compliments by certain people. His entire regime is glorified and lets not even talk about the hero worship of Che.

If "the left" stopped praising his free education, healthcare and framing him as a great liberator, people would basically just forget him internationally. It would only be Cubans in Florida left.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Jesus you're autistic.

Fidel Castro gets a larger proportion of criticism because he also gets a larger proportion of compliments by certain people. His entire regime is glorified and lets not even talk about the hero worship of Che.

If "the left" stopped praising his free education, healthcare and framing him as a great liberator, people would basically just forget him internationally. It would only be Cubans in Florida left.

Why shouldn't he receive some praise? He helped to liberate his people from a crony government. Are you an SJW that puts people in little black books, where no one's accomplishments can be mentioned if they do the wrong things? I don't think anyone is beyond praise within the right context. The only people that jack off to his or Che's image are marginal far-left college students and professors. Might as well call Hitler a recipient of "a larger proportion of compliments by certain people".

And you're totally wrong, as I've told you before. Cuban policy is a significant part of every four year election cycle, and is discussed during the presidential debates among both parties. America still has not fully ended its trade embargo, so naturally some people are going to take the side of the underdog vs the side of the overrated, murderous savior of muh international freedoms, America. Our nation refuses to forget him as long as we carry a grudge over getting our asses kicked 50 years ago.

 

[CiG]

Might as well call Hitler a recipient of "a larger proportion of compliments by certain people".

Well, I would. Difference is when someone praises Hitler for the arguably good things he did, they're immediately met with debate and criticism because it's obvious that any good he did is outweighed by the bad he did. The same is the case for Fidel Castro but the opposition rarely rears its head when he's mentioned in such a context.

I understand that Fidel Castro did do some good, but it is far outweighed by the bad he did. Yes, nuance is important, you can drop the stupid SJW buzzword already it's pathetic and pointless.

America still has not fully ended its trade embargo, so naturally some people are going to take the side of the underdog vs the side of the overrated, murderous savior of muh international freedoms, America. Our nation refuses to forget him as long as we carry a grudge over getting our asses kicked 50 years ago.

This is the standard SJW point of view by the way. Just so you know when to spew memes and when not to, dumb cunt.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Well, I would. Difference is when someone praises Hitler for the arguably good things he did, they're immediately met with debate and criticism because it's obvious that any good he did is outweighed by the bad he did. The same is the case for Fidel Castro but the opposition rarely rears its head when he's mentioned in such a context.

I understand that Fidel Castro did do some good, but it is far outweighed by the bad he did. Yes, nuance is important, you can drop the stupid SJW buzzword already it's pathetic and pointless.

This is the standard SJW point of view by the way. Just so you know when to spew memes and when not to, dumb cunt.

So what part of the brief clip of that British politician strikes you as extreme praise? Note how he has to caveat the hell out of his own little speech since he knows he's treading politically incorrect waters. The only person I see shooting him down blanketly is you (and other right-wing SJWs here). You can just look at Sanders vs Clinton to see what happens in America when one tries to say anything complimentary of Castro. You have it exactly backwards, hating Castro is the easy default that uneducated Americans have been trained to do for generations. Edgy contrarian children try to take it the other way, but the overall silencing-of-dissent occurs from the right-wing on this issue.

Next to Mort you're the biggest SJW on this forum. I mean sure, you go by "Feminist Killer" or whatever on your YouTube handle, you probably considered yourself "redpilled" at one time, you don't have traditional SJW political views, but you debate and think exactly like one. iirc by your own admission you were politically left-wing just a few years ago, but hey, knock up some random girl in one of your government-provided dens of tribal orgy, and having to give up your precious war metal cassette money is all it takes for you to switch. All you care about is your own personal benefit first, and fitting into a crowd of those sharing your views second.

 

[EternalMetal]

 

[rms]

All w have to do is look at the reception Kaepernick got when he said similar things that the British politician just did. Don't get why there's a debate going on here. If Cubans were mostly in a non swing state, Castro would get less attention. And maybe less hated

 

[CiG]

So what part of the brief clip of that British politician strikes you as extreme praise? Note how he has to caveat the hell out of his own little speech since he knows he's treading politically incorrect waters. The only person I see shooting him down blanketly is you (and other right-wing SJWs here). You can just look at Sanders vs Clinton to see what happens in America when one tries to say anything complimentary of Castro. You have it exactly backwards, hating Castro is the easy default that uneducated Americans have been trained to do for generations. Edgy contrarian children try to take it the other way, but the overall silencing-of-dissent occurs from the right-wing on this issue.

Next to Mort you're the biggest SJW on this forum. I mean sure, you go by "Feminist Killer" or whatever on your YouTube handle, you probably considered yourself "redpilled" at one time, you don't have traditional SJW political views, but you debate and think exactly like one. iirc by your own admission you were politically left-wing just a few years ago, but hey, knock up some random girl in one of your government-provided dens of tribal orgy, and having to give up your precious war metal cassette money is all it takes for you to switch. All you care about is your own personal benefit first, and fitting into a crowd of those sharing your views second.

None of this makes any sense. Someone is a little bit butthurt I suspect. It's okay, you'll get over it and then maybe you'll type something worth seriously responding to.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

None of this makes any sense. Someone is a little bit butthurt I suspect. It's okay, you'll get over it and then maybe you'll type something worth seriously responding to.

As great an argument as I'd expect from a person whose ethnic background puts his IQ approximately two standard deviations below the mean.

 

[CiG]

As great an argument as I'd expect from a person whose ethnic background puts his IQ approximately two standard deviations below the mean.

Wow, you must really hate British people.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

You basically destroyed half of the world and made Hitler look like an amateur, so yeah.

 

[CiG]

Woah there.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I can't speak for HBB's rant, but it reminds me of the following graphics.

The world before colonialism:



The world at the height of colonialism (orange is UK controlled, yellows are France/Spain/Portugal controlled):

 

[Dak]

HBB's argument seems to be that Castro wasn't as bad as Mao, therefore he shouldn't be treated with the level of opprobrium that he receives. First of all, why does this even matter? Secondly, who knows what Castro would have done had he the resources that Mao had at his disposal. Mao killed millions because he had millions to spare. The Great Leap Forward killed 2-4x the total population of Cuba in the 60s in a handful of years and China is still full of Chinese.

 

[rms]

i don't think he's gone that far to say he doesn't warrant criticism. i think hes just establishing why there is such vitriol towards him (florida politics)

 

[HamburgerBoy]

HBB's argument seems to be that Castro wasn't as bad as Mao, therefore he shouldn't be treated with the level of opprobrium that he receives. First of all, why does this even matter? Secondly, who knows what Castro would have done had he the resources that Mao had at his disposal. Mao killed millions because he had millions to spare. The Great Leap Forward killed 2-4x the total population of Cuba in the 60s in a handful of years and China is still full of Chinese.

He wasn't as bad as dozens of political leaders that don't receive the same criticism as him. I never mentioned Mao, I mentioned Pinochet, Tito, and Franco, none of whom enjoy Castro's infamy in American culture.

Are you saying that, as a percentage of their respective populations, Castro killed as many as Mao? Mao killed roughly 10% of his population, a quick calculation for Castro would range somewhere between maybe 0.5% and 2%. Further, Castro primarily killed in two ways: first were a number of executions of political opponents, counter-insurgents, etc (basically a normal part of any violent coup), second were those fleeing by raft and drowning somewhere in the gulf. Mao, in contrast, killed primarily through sheer incompetency and even turned down help from the Soviets just to satisfy his ego, but still managed to intentionally murder millions decades after the coup. Mao is understandably considered one of the all-time worst because he was. He was a dumb rural fuck and overthrew a superior, and relatively independent government, and you can just look at Taiwan to appreciate the headstart the alternative enjoyed. Further, if it wasn't for American diplomacy and trade, they might have continued starving through the 70s for all we know. Castro didn't have that advantage nor the geographical wealth of China, and even he managed to keep things somewhat stable.

 

[Dak]

He wasn't as bad as dozens of political leaders that don't receive the same criticism as him. I never mentioned Mao, I mentioned Pinochet, Tito, and Franco, none of whom enjoy Castro's infamy in American culture.

Proximity to the US and friendliness to Communism/Soviet Russia vs antipathy to the US explain most of it. And I'm not sure why Tito is on your list of "worse".

Castro didn't have that advantage nor the geographical wealth of China, and even he managed to keep things somewhat stable.

Probably significantly because he didn't turn down Soviet help.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Proximity to the US and friendliness to Communism/Soviet Russia vs antipathy to the US explain most of it. And I'm not sure why Tito is on your list of "worse".

Probably significantly because he didn't turn down Soviet help.

Well yeah that's basically my point. Obsession over Castro is a very American phenomenon, and we shouldn't act offended when the occasional left-wing British politician admits that Castro had valid scruples with Batista or that Castro wasn't a total blood-thirsty tyrant.

Sure, and that made him smarter than many other commies.

 

[CiG]

The Florida angle doesn't explain international criticism of Castro though.

My problem with Corbyn's statement isn't that he refuses to outright and unequivocally condemn Fidel Castro, who was only brought up because he had died of course, but rather my problem is the points he raised in favour of Fidel Castro are pretty standard leftist apologetics when it comes to Fidel Castro.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Sure, Castro is worthy of serious criticism, but I don't think the international world cares much. Plus, when other nations do say anything positive about him, America tends to get butthurt.

It should be expected that a leftist is going to praise someone for doing leftist things. It's not really any different from right-wingers saying "Well hey, at least Pinochet strengthened the economy" (something I do say btw; I consider fascism to have a slightly better track-record than communism on the whole).

 

[Dak]

Fascism and Communism share both real and theoretical problems. The problem for leftists is they don't recognize the theoretical problems causing the real problems of Communism and therefore ignore the real problems as "not really applying the theoretical".