If Mort Divine ruled the world

Tillman also became highly skeptical of the military and patriotism more generally not long after being swept up in the post-9/11 fervor. It would be great if people would stop exploiting his angular face for political ends he himself would disagree with. kthanks

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And it's not a racist system, eh?
 
Tillman also became highly skeptical of the military and patriotism more generally not long after being swept up in the post-9/11 fervor. It would be great if people would stop exploiting his angular face for political ends he himself would disagree with. kthanks

Subject of some conspiracy theories that he was ordered to be killed. Dude still gave up a lucrative career in the NFL to serve regardless of his views on the military and patriotism.
 
Again, I'm not saying that warm and cold spells aren't locally good or bad. I'm saying that's not the same thing as "global warming." You seem to be mistakenly equating value judgments on local weather with value judgments on global warming in totum. These are two entirely different things. A farmer can't extrapolate that global warming is a good thing just because she experiences a good season due to weather. That experience doesn't translate into how we assess the dangers of global warming.

This isn't being myopic, unless I'm woefully misunderstanding you.

But aren't the negatives ultimately local? It's bad for X person because the seas will flood their home, or it will be too hot to live there, etc. etc. Even "weather being more chaotic" doesn't really mean much without loading it with all sorts of baggage.

It's difficult to follow the logic of your responses. I take it that NIMBYism (?) and anti-nuclear (anti-nuclear what?) are de-civilizational? And nuclear is our catapult to what?

Total energy sustainability might be a pipedream, but that's not an argument against pursuing specific sustainability efforts, especially if they're market-oriented.

You did? I apologize, I missed that.

My comments about bans and taxes were very rough caricatures of what happens (or is likely to happen) if we leave things entirely to governmental institutions. It would be better if a strong grassroots movement complemented the political measures, since this would provide more support at the community level.

Sorry, the comments on NIMBYism etc weren't well clarified. The best Energy Return on Investment (EROI) technology we have is nuclear power. The two other forms that are passable but a far cry are hydro and oil. All three of these are and have been under attack for reasons good and bad, while the pipe dreams like solar and wind keep getting pushed. We should be expanding nuclear capabilities, not building wind and solars farms. Yes there's the radioactive waste issue, but that's a manageable problem when looking at the cost/benefits. But lets build wind farms that kill birds, change the local climate, and generate significant emissions in construction, transport, and maintenance.

Clear, directed policy would be moving cities near the coast away from the coast, and not just away from the coast but specifically to higher ground. This is even a very centralizing sort of policy wonks would like, because then you could "design perfect cities". Even though JC Scott would probably throw a fit lol. But no, let's shuffle the carbon outputs around with a market in carbon credits.


And it's not a racist system, eh?

Wat?
 
But aren't the negatives ultimately local? It's bad for X person because the seas will flood their home, or it will be too hot to live there, etc. etc. Even "weather being more chaotic" doesn't really mean much without loading it with all sorts of baggage.

The negatives are ultimately local in the sense that they're experienced by individuals who can only be in one location (generally speaking).

But just as localized positives can't be extrapolated in order to make value judgments about global warming (e.g. I had a good season due to weather this year, maybe global warming is good too), neither can localized negatives. For examples, if the climate were changing in a manner that's generally good and someone experienced a random bout of dangerous weather, it wouldn't make sense to extrapolate from that single isolated event an overall trend of worsening climate. People assess value to things based on localized individual experience, but these experiences don't translate to the scale of global warming.

In the case of global warming, it's helpful to be able to make associations between local weather patterns and overall climate shift. When people have an emotional investment in their property, their future, their children's future, etc. then appealing to pathos can be an effective way to communicate. But it doesn't replace the complexity of the overall picture, which isn't easily imaginable in a local sense. What can be said is that worsening conditions will become increasingly frequent while better conditions will become increasingly rare. This accounts (in a simplistic way) for the overall trend while also accounting for local experiences.

Sorry, the comments on NIMBYism etc weren't well clarified. The best Energy Return on Investment (EROI) technology we have is nuclear power. The two other forms that are passable but a far cry are hydro and oil. All three of these are and have been under attack for reasons good and bad, while the pipe dreams like solar and wind keep getting pushed. We should be expanding nuclear capabilities, not building wind and solars farms. Yes there's the radioactive waste issue, but that's a manageable problem when looking at the cost/benefits. But lets build wind farms that kill birds, change the local climate, and generate significant emissions in construction, transport, and maintenance.

Have you read Paul Hawken's book Drawdown? It comprehensively, albeit concisely, compares findings from numerous studies and researchers over a plethora of proposed energy solutions (and other sustainable efforts).

Hawken includes nuclear energy as one combatant to global warming, while acknowledging the risk. By all accounts, pursuing nuclear energy will reduce emissions by 16.09 gigatons (by the year 2050), cost roughly $.88 billion and ultimately save $1.7 trillion. This is a serious option that climate researchers do consider.

They also consider wind power, which--according to research--will reduce CO2 by 84.6 gigatons (by the year 2050, onshore only), cost roughly $1.23 trillion and save $7.4 trillion.

Ultimately, Drawdown doesn't encourage pursuing only one option, but a combination. This is more plausible and feasible than an all-or-nothing approach.

Clear, directed policy would be moving cities near the coast away from the coast, and not just away from the coast but specifically to higher ground. This is even a very centralizing sort of policy wonks would like, because then you could "design perfect cities". Even though JC Scott would probably throw a fit lol. But no, let's shuffle the carbon outputs around with a market in carbon credits.

I don't see why population migration is a bad option. It's just an incredibly complex one, and then of course you run into the problem of regulating the movements of vast quantities of people. Something that should be considered, I'd say.
 
The negatives are ultimately local in the sense that they're experienced by individuals who can only be in one location (generally speaking).

But just as localized positives can't be extrapolated in order to make value judgments about global warming (e.g. I had a good season due to weather this year, maybe global warming is good too), neither can localized negatives. For examples, if the climate were changing in a manner that's generally good and someone experienced a random bout of dangerous weather, it wouldn't make sense to extrapolate from that single isolated event an overall trend of worsening climate. People assess value to things based on localized individual experience, but these experiences don't translate to the scale of global warming.

In the case of global warming, it's helpful to be able to make associations between local weather patterns and overall climate shift. When people have an emotional investment in their property, their future, their children's future, etc. then appealing to pathos can be an effective way to communicate. But it doesn't replace the complexity of the overall picture, which isn't easily imaginable in a local sense. What can be said is that worsening conditions will become increasingly frequent while better conditions will become increasingly rare. This accounts (in a simplistic way) for the overall trend while also accounting for local experiences.

I know it's easy for things to drift conversationally when dealing with even a straightforward topic, much less something complex and not all that well understood. It may be that, as you simplified it, there will be an imbalance between better and worse conditions, with worse conditions becoming more prevalent. But based on what? How much of the worse conditions has little to do with warming or what contributed to it? Other human behaviors and value judgments contribute to assessing and generating "worse".

Have you read Paul Hawken's book Drawdown? It comprehensively, albeit concisely, compares findings from numerous studies and researchers over a plethora of proposed energy solutions (and other sustainable efforts).


I don't see why population migration is a bad option. It's just an incredibly complex one, and then of course you run into the problem of regulating the movements of vast quantities of people. Something that should be considered, I'd say.

I'll check it out. I want to circle back to the original issue which is my contention that the public dialogue is pseudo-religious in nature. Drawdown may present a nonpolemical, serious but measured approach to the presumed problem. Scientists studying climate likely report in measured, serious tone as well. But what does the dialogue look like? Unserious at best, actually environmentally damaging at worst (the carbon emissions to travel to protests, the trash left after, etc). There's not even cohesiveness on the humanist benefits (Save the whales or some other animal is the selling point, and I'd wager many to most activists don't have kids they are concerned for anyway).

These same persons likely live on or near the coast, and would flip if there were a policy of relocating away from coastlines. The dialogue is unserious in a real sense, so the only other avenue for expressing the intensity of feelings is to adopt a religious zeal with lose trotting out of factoids untethered from coherent argument. Not all that dissimilar to arguing to an agnostic or athiest that they must be afraid of Hell, while living like a "sinner".
 
I know it's easy for things to drift conversationally when dealing with even a straightforward topic, much less something complex and not all that well understood. It may be that, as you simplified it, there will be an imbalance between better and worse conditions, with worse conditions becoming more prevalent. But based on what? How much of the worse conditions has little to do with warming or what contributed to it? Other human behaviors and value judgments contribute to assessing and generating "worse".

I'll check it out. I want to circle back to the original issue which is my contention that the public dialogue is pseudo-religious in nature. Drawdown may present a nonpolemical, serious but measured approach to the presumed problem. Scientists studying climate likely report in measured, serious tone as well. But what does the dialogue look like? Unserious at best, actually environmentally damaging at worst (the carbon emissions to travel to protests, the trash left after, etc). There's not even cohesiveness on the humanist benefits (Save the whales or some other animal is the selling point, and I'd wager many to most activists don't have kids they are concerned for anyway).

These same persons likely live on or near the coast, and would flip if there were a policy of relocating away from coastlines. The dialogue is unserious in a real sense, so the only other avenue for expressing the intensity of feelings is to adopt a religious zeal with lose trotting out of factoids untethered from coherent argument. Not all that dissimilar to arguing to an agnostic or athiest that they must be afraid of Hell, while living like a "sinner".

Let's leave it at that. I understand your objections but don't agree with them (or with all of them).
 
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I watched it with audio off, was he talking about himself the whole time? Because his face was only in like 10-15 seconds of that. He's basically a face of Nike's marketing right now, why else would they pay him however much money to be that face without showing it?

nah, it's actually a normal nike video. "people say your dreams are crazy, they're only crazy to them." shit like that.

then all of a sudden it pans to him and goes "even if it makes sacrificing everything"

then goes back to normal :lol:
 
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In light of the recent Nike endorsement, I found this documentary:


In short, the factory workers who make Nike shoes live in Indonesia and only make about enough money to eat meagerly and live in their own shit. I remember people caring about this shit pre-Obama politics.

Nike signing Kaepernick for a social justice campaign, lmao. I don't even mind Nike's campaign, but I feel like this campaign should fail because of the blatant hypocrisy. Nike profiting from this encounter is tragic irony at its best (or worst for that matter).
 
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How about it's sad capitalism provides a better existence than the alternatives to sweatshops in countries with sweatshops. It's similar to the problem with the industrialization transition in England etc back in the day. Predictable income for repetitive labor which can buy consistently available goods is better for human planning than the inconsistent outcomes and highly varied labor from individual peasant farming.
 
How about it's sad capitalism provides a better existence than the alternatives to sweatshops in countries with sweatshops. It's similar to the problem with the industrialization transition in England etc back in the day. Predictable income for repetitive labor which can buy consistently available goods is better for human planning than the inconsistent outcomes and highly varied labor from individual peasant farming.

The real problem isn't that they work in sweatshops for nothing wages in dogshit conditions, and yes without the sweatshops they'd instead just starve, have to migrate or work somewhere else that sucks even more than the sweatshops, the biggest problem is that those companies stamp down on any kind of labour movement that might help to balance the conditions and wages out.

In that documentary they interview a man who has been trying to organize a workers' rights movement for years around that cluster of sweatshops and he's dealt with threats and physical violence. It's not Nike's fault that the management in Indonesia act like warlords and thugs, even if they should probably levy some influence over the situation or at least address it.

Agreed. But workers' rights are antithetical to capitalism.

How?