If Mort Divine ruled the world
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EternalMetal
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In light of the recent Nike endorsement, I found this documentary:
In short, the factory workers who make Nike shoes live in Indonesia and only make about enough money to eat meagerly and live in their own shit. I remember people caring about this shit pre-Obama politics.
Nike signing Kaepernick for a social justice campaign, lmao. I don't even mind Nike's campaign, but I feel like this campaign should fail because of the blatant hypocrisy. Nike profiting from this encounter is tragic irony at its best (or worst for that matter).
In short, the factory workers who make Nike shoes live in Indonesia and only make about enough money to eat meagerly and live in their own shit. I remember people caring about this shit pre-Obama politics.
Nike signing Kaepernick for a social justice campaign, lmao. I don't even mind Nike's campaign, but I feel like this campaign should fail because of the blatant hypocrisy. Nike profiting from this encounter is tragic irony at its best (or worst for that matter).
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
I remember that documentary, pretty fucked up that the guy had to skip 3 meals for that week just to buy one shitty disposable razor and some shaving cream.
Einherjar86
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The Ozzman
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CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
That's capitalism without a labour movement to be specific. They have no rights as workers like we do in the capitalistic west.
Dak
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How about it's sad capitalism provides a better existence than the alternatives to sweatshops in countries with sweatshops. It's similar to the problem with the industrialization transition in England etc back in the day. Predictable income for repetitive labor which can buy consistently available goods is better for human planning than the inconsistent outcomes and highly varied labor from individual peasant farming.
Einherjar86
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CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
The real problem isn't that they work in sweatshops for nothing wages in dogshit conditions, and yes without the sweatshops they'd instead just starve, have to migrate or work somewhere else that sucks even more than the sweatshops, the biggest problem is that those companies stamp down on any kind of labour movement that might help to balance the conditions and wages out.
In that documentary they interview a man who has been trying to organize a workers' rights movement for years around that cluster of sweatshops and he's dealt with threats and physical violence. It's not Nike's fault that the management in Indonesia act like warlords and thugs, even if they should probably levy some influence over the situation or at least address it.
How?
Einherjar86
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CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Oh, agreed. That doesn't mean we can't have a capitalistic society that is operated intelligently. Capitalism unrestrained is like anything else, this is why I would probably call myself a social liberal in terms of policy preference. We can have workers' rights, capitalism and social programs while trying to curb the negative aspects and excesses of all 3 things.
Indonesia's problem isn't capitalism.
Dak
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Capitalism gravitates towards efficiency of achieving profits. Efficiency alone means nothing without means and ends.
EternalMetal
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HamburgerBoy
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Serena Williams losing to Naomi Osaka is apparently a result of the patriarchy and white supremacy.
CiG
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Because Nike didn't create the situation Indonesia is in, they just exploited it.
HamburgerBoy
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EternalMetal
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Yes, and choose to support it. The point is that I don't think they should support such business practices even if it results in a higher profit. These are the types of choices the high-paid execs are responsible for making, but of course padding their pockets is more important than providing humane working conditions. Nike is culpable because they perpetuate the situation.
CiG
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I mean, that is true and furthermore is it Europe's fault that Nigerians were enslavement-happy?
Sure, they're culpable and they should actually address such practices. I'm not sure whether they should pull out of those markets though because what else do those workers have in terms of choices?
IMO what needs to happen is they need a labour movement.
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HamburgerBoy
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It's Europe's fault for buying slaves, continuing to hold slaves, and enslaving their slaves' children.
fwiw I'm not saying that using sweatshop labor is necessarily a bad thing. Use of cheap Chinese labor by wealthy Western corporations has certainly helped to enrich China. Free, open markets are some of the best ways of redistributing wealth and empowering the poor. But they still are morally culpable in any abuses that may happen if they are either aware of them, or if they intentionally choose to be ignorant to said abuses.
CiG
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Sure, but all I'm saying is that even if Nike completely pulled out of Indonesia, the practices of basically destroying any attempt to start a workers' rights movement would still exist in Indonesia. Not that Nike should be let off the hook for exploiting and perpetuating a situation, but only that they didn't create that market that won't allow workers to collectivize against exploitative workplace conditions.
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