If Mort Divine ruled the world

[CiG]

She's already said the word like about 72 times... I'm trying to hang in there.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Yeah, I turned that video off after 3.5 minutes. She clearly isn't even referring to ingrained societal advantages of being white but claims that white people consciously believe in white supremacy. She's a fucking moron and I pity any white person that can listen to her and just sulk over what racist shitlords they discovered themselves to be.

 

[CiG]

Saying all whites are racist isn't prejudice because it has been proven, without a shadow of a doubt, that we are living in a racist, white supremacist society, believe that or not believe that, that's your prerogative but it has been proven that we live in a racist, and sexist, white supremacist society.

 

[Mort Divine]

that statement isn't false

 

[HamburgerBoy]

that statement isn't false

It's easily proven false upon finding one non-racist white person.

 

[CiG]

that statement isn't false

It's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt? C'mon, you're better than that.
I'm not even denying that racism runs rampant in society.

^That is racist, objectively racist, do white people really hate themselves so much that they can't even admit this is racist? Have some self-respect, don't latch onto every crackpot non-white that feeds your white guilt martyrdom complex, honestly...

It's shit like this that actually makes me hate white people.

 

[Mort Divine]

The problem here is people think that racism necessitates outward and conscious hate so if you're not going around beating the shit out of black people or referring to them as the n word that you're not racist.

That is not the case. If your attitudes and behavior (conscious or otherwise) contribute to the perpetuation of racist institutions and societal attitudes you are racist. It is almost impossible for a white person in America to not be racist to some degree.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The problem here is people think that racism necessitates outward and conscious hate so if you're not going around beating the shit out of black people or referring to them as the n word that you're not racist.

That is not the case. If your attitudes and behavior (conscious or otherwise) contribute to the perpetuation of racist institutions and societal attitudes you are racist. It is almost impossible for a white person in America to not be racist to some degree.

Please provide examples of the mildest attitudes that racist white people have to perpetuate racism.

 

[CiG]

The problem here is people think that racism necessitates outward and conscious hate so if you're not going around beating the shit out of black people or referring to them as the n word that you're not racist.

That is not the case. If your attitudes and behavior (conscious or otherwise) contribute to the perpetuation of racist institutions and societal attitudes you are racist. It is almost impossible for a white person in America to not be racist to some degree.

Actually I can for better or worse agree with that, however it's much less absolutist than the woman's ideas.
She's slightly hysterical.

 

[Mort Divine]

Please provide examples of the mildest attitudes that racist white people have to perpetuate racism.

One of the more recent things I noticed as an example during the Baltimore protests was the comments by people who otherwise had no problem associating black people, hanging out with them, etc. who wouldn't think of themselves as racist ... along the lines of "But they're burning their businesses and that CVS!"

More concerned with the response of the protesters than the reasoning behind it. With questioning the protesters than with the people who lead to them happening in the first place.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

One of the more recent things I noticed as an example during the Baltimore protests was the comments by people who otherwise had no problem associating black people, hanging out with them, etc. along the lines of "But they're burning their businesses and that CVS!"

More concerned with the response of the protesters than the reasoning behind it.

What is the reasoning behind burning down local businesses?

Something like half the cops involved in that dude's death were black, btw.

#BlacksCanBeWhiteSupremacistsToo
#SoCanBlackMayorsInBlackCities

 

[CiG]

I noticed that too, it's cringe-worthy.
Suddenly being concerned about property damage in black communities is a convenient way to ignore the reality of the situation.
There's no doubt in my mind that racism is still rotting the foundations of society, my only position during this whole tangent was that non-whites can, by it's own definition, be racist too and teaching that only whites can be racist harms the morality of society, which as we all know doesn't need to be harmed any further.

 

[Dak]

Yeah, because one gay man who wants to force the rest of the gay community into silence should be listened to over the millions shouting in an attempt to even have a voice.

Two issues here. One is a problem of reading comprehension, and one is a lack of sociopolitical climate awareness.

"One gay man wants to force the rest of the gay community into silence."

Please quote to me where he says this, because in the linked article he says "we should encourage". Maybe the misunderstanding comes from SJWs using words like "encourage" to really mean "force".

Secondly "attempt to have a voice"? It's 2015 in America, not 1965.

You can't be reasoned with if your reaction to "maybe x should try a different approach" is "you all heard it, he said he wants to kill all of x"

 

[Einherjar86]

It's ironic that you are criticizing Mort for being unreasonable and irrational when he's defending himself against someone unwilling to adjust his own attitude.

Fair enough, but what's the behaviour in question?

My comments can be taken vaguely; but for specifics, we can look at the supreme court's recent decision.

Making it more acceptable to grant marriage licenses to gay couples will allow more local courts to do so whereas before they may have proved hesitant.

Despite its often questionable status, "Law" is an important institution and conditions our behavior to a significant degree. Making material (i.e. institutional) changes to it will inevitably alter our behavior.

So why take a term like racism which is supposed to apply to power structures and ingrained social blahblahblah and use it on an individual level, if that's not what it's meant for? How is an individual being racist and holding racist views if they are not conscious of them or not actively seeking to maintain them? Is every white person a racist just because they weren't followed around at the store while shopping or because a car dealer started with a lower offer?

Bigotry and prejudice apply to individuals. Individuals partake of racism.

I don't see why there needs to be an argument over semantics; but of course, I'm always happy to do so.

 

[CiG]

My comments can be taken vaguely; but for specifics, we can look at the supreme court's recent decision.

Making it more acceptable to grant marriage licenses to gay couples will allow more local courts to do so whereas before they may have proved hesitant.

Despite its often questionable status, "Law" is an important institution and conditions our behavior to a significant degree. Making material (i.e. institutional) changes to it will inevitably alter our behavior.

Good example, I actually totally agree.
I was just a bit curious.

 

[Dak]

It's ironic that you are criticizing Mort for being unreasonable and irrational when he's defending himself against someone unwilling to adjust his own attitude.

I have adjusted my attitude and opinions surrounding various matters multiple times in the 7 years I have been on this board, and I'm sure I will experience and engage in more change. I wouldn't call Mort unreasonable, as the connotation is that a person can see but is being stubborn. Mort is ignorant. He can form neither a reasoned defense of his own position nor comprehend alternative positions (as he frequently "I dont sees" and "I cant evens").

Fluidity of terms and identities from use to use, from one moment of feels to the next, renders one intellectually impotent. You "cant even" someone who cant even.

I'm not surprised that BO has taken his position, given his minority status in both his college and the city at large.

Before one objects to this trivialization of his position, what is different about this trivialization vs "systemic x" about anything else?

 

[rms]

The police affect the black life in a way that does not affect the white life in a similar manner. The banks affect the black life in a way that does not affect the white life. We are not in a post-racial society. Like it or not, when you have the power, you have the hegemony. White is the hegemony. The West has the hegemony. If anyone disagrees with the latter, just look at history. History translates very well to the present, and it reinforces the former. It's about principles and values. Like it or not, the reflection of principles or values are interpreted on a first-face basis, and that first-face weighs heavily on the ultimate interpretation. The side that has the upper-hand, that has the hegemony, is the white side, the West side.

Mannnn fuck your level of black importance. I've deployed, hung out and grew up around a lot of black people and that doesn't make my opinion more valid or not. Anecdotal and personal experience is useless in an argument, nor should it hold weight.

If you want to talk about banks, it can easily be a class issue. Banks have no problems taking advantage of poor folk who can maintain interest on a loan for as long as possible.


What I also don't get is that somehow the majority is in trouble for being the majority. Where else is the majority population not in a social foothold? What exactly is the suggestion here, that all minorities should have equal hold in social values? That is silly. Second, if your only examples of institutional racism left are policing and banks, society is doing god damn good.

 

[Einherjar86]

I have adjusted my attitude and opinions surrounding various matters multiple times in the 7 years I have been on this board, and I'm sure I will experience and engage in more change. I wouldn't call Mort unreasonable, as the connotation is that a person can see but is being stubborn. Mort is ignorant. He can form neither a reasoned defense of his own position nor comprehend alternative positions (as he frequently "I dont sees" and "I cant evens").

He may not be entirely willing to listen to potentially ugly opinions draped in the regalia of rationale, but that's because he's committed in his beliefs. Commitment to belief can be a dangerous thing; but in Mort's case, I don't think he poses an immediate (or even distant) threat to anyone, especially not to anyone here.

We all eventually choose our sides, and at some point it becomes fruitless to chase the rabbit all the way down the hole because any and every position runs aground at its ideological origin. I think Mort knows this and sees a certain ethical value in maintaining his stance.

You can't accuse him of being ignorant, since it's clear he's educated himself. He might be myopic... but then aren't we all?

Fluidity of terms and identities from use to use, from one moment of feels to the next, renders one intellectually impotent. You "cant even" someone who cant even.

Perhaps if you pour cement into the mold as soon as any new meaning or term is posed...

Identity is fluid - I mean, it's a fiction for fuck's sake. The mistake the Left makes is in posing a plurality of identities whilst simultaneously participating in the conservative (in a vague sense) practice of solidifying those identities. The embarrassment of Rachel Dolezal isn't in the Left's critical response to her black act; it's in the Left's continued commitment to the cult of authenticity.

Those of previously marginalized status feel a compulsion toward definitive and concrete identity because they were denied it for a long time. Now the paradoxes and inconsistencies of identity are spewing forth because the Left wants to admit plurality but resist the fictive quality of identity. The truly radical answer isn't to admit that black, gay, queer, transgender, etc. are stable identities on par with "white heterosexual male." The radical answer is to admit that "white heterosexual male" is as fictional as any other identity.

That said, history is a powerful narrative, and it bestows credit upon an accidentally happy few. If the decision is to persist in our dream of identity so that historically marginal subjects get a shot at some kind imaginary authenticity, then so be it. It won't last; but the recoil will either be some kind of rejection of "abnormal" identities, resulting in an identitarian totalitarianism, or it will be the devaluation of identity across the board.

I'm for the latter. Most identities suck anyway.

 

[no country for old wainds]

^i love this post, it seems exactly like something id say if i was more eloquent

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I'm a white male who attends an HBCU, i.e. I'm around more black people than any of you on a regular basis, and I can gladly stand by the statement "all white people are racist." It's not about hate, it's not about segregation, it's not about slavery, it's not about slavery; it's about a mindset you have no choice in forming and you fucks don't get it. I'll differ from the video on this: it's a mutual process in eliminating racism (Fanon would agree with me on this). But that's all I differ on.

You all don't know what racism is. Racism is not prejudice. Racism is not hate. Racism is not a Yo in the hood saying he wants to kill white people. Racism is a power structure. The yo in the hood does not affect your life. The police affect the black life in a way that does not affect the white life in a similar manner. The banks affect the black life in a way that does not affect the white life. We are not in a post-racial society. Like it or not, when you have the power, you have the hegemony. White is the hegemony. The West has the hegemony. If anyone disagrees with the latter, just look at history. History translates very well to the present, and it reinforces the former. It's about principles and values. Like it or not, the reflection of principles or values are interpreted on a first-face basis, and that first-face weighs heavily on the ultimate interpretation. The side that has the upper-hand, that has the hegemony, is the white side, the West side.

Wow, just wow.

It saddens me that there are people with this mindset. You should be doing side commentary with that racist black chick from yesterdays video.

Also, i doubt you interact more with black people than any of us guys here from the Los Angeles area. Long Beach, Pasadena, etc. All have huuge African American communities(including mayors, police chiefs etc). Most of the neighborhoods, schools etc are filled with minorities. The fact that someone would think that going to a HBCU somehow makes you more qualified to label what racism is just absurd. If anything it just proves why you would splurt out such nonsense. Have you ever lived in a black neighborhood? Or better yet have you even lived in a community that has a large population of African americans (and no im not talking about your HBCU campus life)? Yeah, I doubt it.