Dak
mentat
Just like a woman to worry about what sort of emotions win arguments. 
(I think we need a version of this smiley with dealwithit glasses)
(I think we need a version of this smiley with dealwithit glasses)
If Mort Divine ruled the world
- Thread starter Zephyrus
- Start date
SentinelSlain
Suck my joined date.
- Nov 21, 2007
- 10,015
- 153
- 63
If I converted to SJWism and accepted a female led relationship with a Black Jewish BBW domme who I found physically unattractive, would I go to heaven? What if I had to wear a chastity cage forever and write poems about how the white male deserves to die?
Einherjar86
Active Member
SentinelSlain
Suck my joined date.
- Nov 21, 2007
- 10,015
- 153
- 63
Dak
mentat
SentinelSlain
Suck my joined date.
- Nov 21, 2007
- 10,015
- 153
- 63
rms
Active Member
Yeah I read that one awhile ago. Funnay.
I wonder what the well-thought out argument is opposing this view. Appeals to almost all of my beliefs (the interview and the Coddling article) but I don't want to get to fanboy-ish about it.
Dak
mentat
rms
Active Member
I honestly haven't seen one. Read one after the coddling piece but it addressed only 1 aspect out of the entire article
Einherjar86
Active Member
I think it's important to question the premises of Haidt's argument - that these sorts of texts (he doesn't specify authors or titles, which is interesting) contribute to a "culture of victimhood." I think it's more likely that specific teachers contribute to such an environment; and, far more influential in my opinion than the classroom, is the media (including social media). The reason why there is a "culture of victimhood" is because the media and the internet say there is one. In short, this seems like an assumption that has been propagated heavily in popular media; and because of that propagation, we now actually have a culture of victimhood. There's no reason why texts on cultural theory and trigger warnings, in and of themselves, necessarily contribute to such a culture.
Finally, I wonder exactly what texts Haidt is referring to...? Again, he mentions no authors or titles. I'm a bit skeptical that first-years are subjected to as much Michel Foucault and Judith Butler as he thinks.
Finally, I wonder exactly what texts Haidt is referring to...? Again, he mentions no authors or titles. I'm a bit skeptical that first-years are subjected to as much Michel Foucault and Judith Butler as he thinks.
rms
Active Member
Haven't gone through these yet Ein, but these may contain the answers.
https://reason.com/blog/2015/09/08/the-rise-of-the-culture-of-victimhood-ex
Includes a link to a scholarly article he wrote. Got to go through some hoops to download it, but it's free.
https://reason.com/blog/2015/09/08/the-rise-of-the-culture-of-victimhood-ex
Includes a link to a scholarly article he wrote. Got to go through some hoops to download it, but it's free.
Dak
mentat
They don't need to read Butler to be exposed to victomology. It's in the air we breathe at this point.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Thanks. If I have time I'll read it.
What does this mean? Haidt specifically referred to curricula, saying that first-years shouldn't be exposed to texts on racism, gender, et al. Saying "it's in the air we breathe" suggests there's nothing that can be done by instructors to combat it, making Haidt's entire argument rather moot.
Dak
mentat
It means this stuff is embedded in the textbooks, the talks, the bulletin boards, emails, the existence of snuggle rooms et al. He's a professor at NYU, so I would imagine he has some idea of the atmosphere at a university.
Einherjar86
Active Member
So, students do need to read certain materials in order to be exposed to "victimology" - particularly if this ideology is embedded in textbooks.
As far as everything else goes - talks, bulletin boards, emails, etc. - these seem to be issues that fall to the professor, not the institution at large (I don't know what "snuggle rooms" are). Furthermore, I'm not sure he provides any evidence that a victim culture derives primarily from the universities and not from the internet and social media.
I'm just having a hard time discerning what Haidt has issues with, since he refuses to provide particulars about where exactly this victimology resides. It's presumptuous, in my opinion, to locate it in academia and not popular culture at large, which then feeds into academia. In other words, I don't think it's a causal determinant, like he claims; if anything, I would say that it's more like a feedback loop.
As far as everything else goes - talks, bulletin boards, emails, etc. - these seem to be issues that fall to the professor, not the institution at large (I don't know what "snuggle rooms" are). Furthermore, I'm not sure he provides any evidence that a victim culture derives primarily from the universities and not from the internet and social media.
I'm just having a hard time discerning what Haidt has issues with, since he refuses to provide particulars about where exactly this victimology resides. It's presumptuous, in my opinion, to locate it in academia and not popular culture at large, which then feeds into academia. In other words, I don't think it's a causal determinant, like he claims; if anything, I would say that it's more like a feedback loop.
Dak
mentat
Well I would say it starts much earlier than in the university. I have complained about the same things, and I have heard that due to upbringing prior to college, it isn't right to rudely awaken the children as they pour into the university. But they are going to get it at some point. May as well be as they enter "adulthood" if it wasn't earlier.
rms
Active Member
I think the snuggle rooms Dak is referring to are the "no triggering" rooms where you play with legos and other insanely childish things
Einherjar86
Active Member
I would agree it starts prior to college as well. I simply take issue with Haidt's comment about assigned texts, since I have doubts as to whether these kinds of texts are really to blame for a culture of victimhood - or that assigning them to first-years actually fosters such a culture.
Again, I don't know who or what he's specifically referring to; but among my colleagues, we have an opposite reaction to the texts Haidt seems to be implying: we perceive these kinds of cultural theory texts to be challenging and iconoclastic for most incoming freshmen, and to present a possibility to force students to think more critically.
In other words, these are the kind of challenging texts that undergrads are supposed to be exposed to in college - not the groupthink victim-juice that Haidt seems to paint them to be. And in many cases, students do not take kindly to the arguments in such texts; more often than not, in my experience, they exhibit resistance if not vehement disagreement.
For the time being, these rooms are the exception - not the rule. Many schools do utilize various kinds of stress-relief measures - BU has an animal petting day prior to final exams. But these aren't coddling measures.
Dak
mentat
As a CC transfer, and having done my freshman year in 02, and not living on campus, I can't speak from any personal experience about what newly minted freshman are exposed to, but given the number of "social justice" bulletins, it has to be a lot of that BS. Even teachers that are ostensibly against coddling, still push 50+% of SJW stuff, so the detraction is easily drowned out.
It's a problem is that new "adults" on a wide basis are so stressed by these things that if they don't pet an animal like a 4 year old, they might harm themselves or others. That's enabling - which can easily be called coddling.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Where are you getting that number? And how does content "drown out" practice? And what bulletins are you talking about?
The reason I'm so confounded is because I don't relate to any of the data you're using.
Petting an animal is something only four-year-olds do? Playing with animals for even just a few minutes can be a stress reliever. And maybe some of these kids are having stress reactions that are disproportionate, but that doesn't mean that every student is, or that the vast majority of students aren't there because, hey, they miss their pets from home and want to play with a dog for ten minutes.
Similar threads
