Isis

[Johan]

I didn't see what the big deal was at first, but the whole album Oceanic grows on you, and now I find it quite pleasurable. Got another one since then, and looking for more.

 

[IcemanJ256]

that vertiacally/horizontally complex thing is interesting.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Originally posted by IcemanJ256
that vertiacally/horizontally complex thing is interesting.

I agree but I don't know how to listen for it in a song. Is there any information that explains this and how to pick up on it within a song?

I was someone who didn't like Oceanic and it was more because of the type/style of music that they play and if you like this form of music then you could hopefully find as much enjoyment with it as others have. I did read a review about this disc and the opinion about the horrible vocals was explained as if they did this on purpose.

 

[Duende]

Originally posted by Liquid Tension
I agree but I don't know how to listen for it in a song. Is there any information that explains this and how to pick up on it within a song?

I was someone who didn't like Oceanic and it was more because of the type/style of music that they play and if you like this form of music then you could hopefully find as much enjoyment with it as others have. I did read a review about this disc and the opinion about the horrible vocals was explained as if they did this on purpose.

here are my tips for mastering verticality (this must sound pretty stupid thing but i'm being seriously!)

Try to relax yourself, you'll need to pay 100% attention on the music but not like staring at something just like looking at the sky but without looking at a particular star... looking at the hole thing. being unfocused by receiving data.

Put all your senses and emotion receptors on the music (but does not stress them trying to find something concrete) let the music flow inside you and try to paint mentally a movie where all instruments or sound sources have a role (remeber you'll not find any particulary melody that will stuck in your head or anything like this) but don't stuck on any particulary.

The objective is to figure a thing being nothing itself (individually) but a relationship between the different elements (sounds, instruments, voice) in the past (what has sounded) and in the present (what is sounding) became emotinally transported by all that harmony (relationship between all that sounds including melody, rithm, cadence and execution).

Closing your eyes could help u. also practicing this on not too stressed states (at morning or at night) could help you. once you begin to catch it you will find it will be no so difficult the next time and this way u will build up an hability to swim inside the music (being inside all that imaginary cosmos) instead of follow the music itself.

Hope this will help.

p.s. i know this sounds cheesy and hilarious but that's how works for me. i know i can be fired for this.. if this is the way... FUCK YOU

 

[Liquid Tension]

Duende,

Thanks for your suggestion and I also like to listen to music this way! I have no problem getting into a relaxed state since I practice meditation every day. I'll give this band another try along with Blackwater Park to see if I can pick up on this vertical writing style. Are there any other discs that were written like this?

 

[Duende]

Originally posted by Liquid Tension
Duende,

Thanks for your suggestion and I also like to listen to music this way! I have no problem getting into a relaxed state since I practice meditation every day. I'll give this band another try along with Blackwater Park to see if I can pick up on this vertical writing style. Are there any other discs that were written like this?

IMO latest Porcupine Tree albums are pretty this way

also each small jazz band can show you how great the harmony can be vs the melody itself. (i'm not saying melody is not important i only think that the combination things brings you far away than the individual things f.e. bands based on standard riffage btw i enjoy any music that i like (mainly depressive or fatal stuff i don't know why but this is it i suppose is because being myself) and this is simple, complex, vertical, horizontal, trippy, focused, and any adjective you want to put here [sounds obvious but this is the way] i have so many moods so i have so many thing that i like)

also Ulver's perdition city works something like this (building upon some loops). maybe last 3rd and the mortal too.

well.. i really doesn't understand about music but this is what the soul tells me to say you so don't take that seriously if you think i'm wrong

 

[Liquid Tension]

Originally posted by Duende

also Ulver's perdition city works something like this (building upon some loops).

Another disc that is in my collection because of the suggestions from here that I didn't care for! I'll have to give this one a try also!

 

[Eld]

The one and only, Neurosis.

 

[changso]

Originally posted by Duende
here are my tips for mastering verticality (this must sound pretty stupid thing but i'm being seriously!)

Try to relax yourself, you'll need to pay 100% attention on the music but not like staring at something just like looking at the sky but without looking at a particular star... looking at the hole thing. being unfocused by receiving data.

Put all your senses and emotion receptors on the music (but does not stress them trying to find something concrete) let the music flow inside you and try to paint mentally a movie where all instruments or sound sources have a role (remeber you'll not find any particulary melody that will stuck in your head or anything like this) but don't stuck on any particulary.

The objective is to figure a thing being nothing itself (individually) but a relationship between the different elements (sounds, instruments, voice) in the past (what has sounded) and in the present (what is sounding) became emotinally transported by all that harmony (relationship between all that sounds including melody, rithm, cadence and execution).

Closing your eyes could help u. also practicing this on not too stressed states (at morning or at night) could help you. once you begin to catch it you will find it will be no so difficult the next time and this way u will build up an hability to swim inside the music (being inside all that imaginary cosmos) instead of follow the music itself.

Hope this will help.

p.s. i know this sounds cheesy and hilarious but that's how works for me. i know i can be fired for this.. if this is the way... FUCK YOU

I got into Oceanic with that particular method. At first I tought is was simplist, atmospheric and kind of boring music. Now, Oceanic is one of the greatest record I've ever heard...and still growing on me on major proportions. Don't forget, you must really abandon yourself to the music. Don't try to understand what's going on, let simply your inner selft drift with it...

 

[Duende]

Thx for all your answers..

Is really hard to explains something you can't describe with words. but you seems to get the idea behind it so i'm happy with that. it's been very few time i began to realize that much information on that kind of songs i used to be an iron maiden melodic riff guy and i didn't realize about this things so is still hard for me to explain.. sometimes i can be seen as a fool he he...

btw lemme say that i always heard the word complexity or skill as it was something to learn in a manual but lemme say that i think this bands doesn't compose this way (mathematically calculating what has to be there to producer that) i think they do it with the soul.. it's more a beast thing that a racionalization thing i believe. just they let their feelings flow without trying to construct any complex just what flow from inside. the result is so complex because feelings are that complex or maybe i must say that fuzzy or unfocused. are nothing you can put in a 3-D coordinate axis.

ha ha i'm talking again like a fool.. he he

well... it's enough for know

-c.

 

[Blade]

I personally really love Isis.....the textures and layers within it are amazing. I don't really look at lyrics as a be all end all of an album. Opeth is lyrically driven, where Isis is more musically driven, comparing the two is not possible IMHO.

I think the metal community is the only one where MANY styles of music are accepted as metal even though they are not really 'metal', like porcupine tree for example. In Absentia is a totally amazing album, and I think most people here would agree, but no 'death' vocals, no double bass lines, and very little crunching guitars (more on this than previous albums though). Metal music has always been this way and that is why I will always be a metalhead.

On my play list now are:

Porcupine Tree - In Absentia
Opeth - My Arms, Your Hearse (wow)
Isis - Oceanic
Agalloch - The Mantle
Sigur Ros - ()

All amazing in their individual and unique ways....and as a metal fan, I would have it no other way!

 

[O'blivion]

Originally posted by Eld
O'blivion, are we the same person? It's funny because whenever I see your posts they reflect my exact same thoughts, and it's also quite rare that two people would have the same favorite bands (Neurosis, Isis, Enslaved, etc).

I added you to my msn but I've never seen you on.

yeah, you're the only person i know of who has tastes identical to mine. it's warming to know that someone else appreciates these bands to the extent i do.

i'm not on msn, or the internet for that matter, very much. there have been several times when i've been on that it said you were away. we're bound to catch each other sometime.

Originally posted by changso
All that are very beautiful words, really...
But do you have concrete exemples to support those "facts" or "theories" or whatever (ex: specific part of a song which shows concretly your point). Don't get me wrong, the purpose of my post has no negative intents...I like ISIS, but not as much as you do and I would really like too...so that's why I'm asking for help.

Another thing bothers me...you seem to think that a more structured song is better than a non-structured one which is, in my opinion, a non-sense. Based on your sayings, Mozart outclass Beethoven musically...and if you push further your thesis, Homère is a better writer than Goethe...

Clarifying your statement would be greatly appreciated.
thanks

well they aren't 'facts.' this is just what i get out of the music. the beauty of art is that it is interpretive. like i've said before, the only thing you can do is release yourself into the fold. just let the music envelop and carry you.

i don't thing any one song writing method is better. i just find that deeper music takes me further, that's all.

Originally posted by Blade
On my play list now are:

Porcupine Tree - In Absentia
Opeth - My Arms, Your Hearse (wow)
Isis - Oceanic
Agalloch - The Mantle
Sigur Ros - ()

All amazing in their individual and unique ways....and as a metal fan, I would have it no other way!

how is the new Sigur Ros? has it been released yet? i have track 6 downloaded, and from what i can tell, it will be a brilliant album.