Israel.

[TomiR]

I personally see Israel as an arrogant bully in the middle east. Their actions get overlooked by the US, the UN etc. They constantly keep expanding on Palestinian soil without no intervention. And they still keep on demanding more rights and stability, even though they are one of the biggest reasons for the unstability.

The way I see things, Israel is an illegal nation in many ways. This is just an example: Think about if France, China and England decided that a million muslims needed to have a nation of their own, and they then decided to put them to Washington. Okay then, the muslims got their new nation on land that was not theirs (yes, I know the soil in Israel is sacred for jews, muslims so this only a rough example) Then the muslims want more land, so they use the military to gain more land. People of Washington are waiting for an intervention, but nobody has the balls to do anything because the muslim nation is supported by china.

Like I said, that's a bit of a rough example, but I hope you get the point.
If Iran would be doing the same things Israel is, their regime would get run down in no time.

I don't think any country should be allowed to have nuclear weapons, but even if Iran had a nuclear weapon, I doubt they'd use it because it would be a suicide. It's funny that Israel is allowed to have nuclear weapons even though they are one of the most aggressive nations in the middle east. What gives them the privilege?

 

[drew_drummer]

Most stereotypes have some basis in reality.

And this I think is where we can trace the whole thing down to - you believe that stereotypes have validity because they are born of 'reality'. It hasn't occurred to you that there are many realities, and that the one that a stereotype comes from can be a severely band-limited reality.

After reading the last page or so, I can't really think of you as anything other than a full blown racist. I do think you are a racist, and I don't think any of this was just a mistake or misinterpretation. You're looking for scientific evidence to support your own bigoted viewpoints... rather than looking at the science and adjusting your viewpoints to match.

 

[sinewavealex]

They constantly keep expanding on Palestinian soil without no intervention.

It's much more complicated than just that. While expanding settlements beyond the "green line" which separates the Palestinian Authority from Israel is illegal, many religious jews constantly attempt that. The Israeli high court deemed such actions illegal, and settlements are being evacuated and copied inside the Israeli territory.

Read here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amona,_Mateh_Binyamin
and here:
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/illegal-west-bank-outpost-to-be-razed-by-end-of-2012-barak-decides-1.393032

That's only one example of Israel, not bullying. Moreover, while this happens on the west bank, the following was an initiative of the Israeli government in the Gaza Strip (an entity with a separate authority, a terrorist regime called Hamas)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%27s_unilateral_disengagement_plan
The area that was disengaged, now uses mainly as Hamas outposts where rockets are fired on Israeli cities.

yes, I know the soil in Israel is sacred for jews, Muslims so this only a rough example

Sacred it may be to the three monotheistic religions, but - while to some it is sacred, it is the home of the Jews, as a historic fact, backed by thousands of years in history. Unlike the Americas, for example which were suddenly explored and settled by (and by "settled" I mean the slaughter of millions from the native American population) Europeans looking for a fresh new world. By your example, if we should place a nationalist Muslim people demanding their own country in the middle of Washington, you'd be siding with the Muslims! It's a rough example, you said so. But that's the consecutive logic which flows from it.

Then the muslims want more land, so they use the military to gain more land.

If Israel REALLY wanted to expand itself on the expense of Palestinians, nothing would be left of that terrain. Instead, Israel supplies electricity and water both to the Gaza strip, and to the West Bank, while 32,000 Palestinians are employed inside the Israeli territory. Instead, Israel is subject to negotiate with a terrorist regime in Gaza (The Hamas) which chooses to fire rockets on Israeli civilians, while firing from schools, medical and educational facilities inside the Gaza Strip. Israel does not intentionally attack civilians, and targets only terrorist squads.

I don't think any country should be allowed to have nuclear weapons

+1

but even if Iran had a nuclear weapon, I doubt they'd use it because it would be a suicide. It's funny that Israel is allowed to have nuclear weapons even though they are one of the most aggressive nations in the middle east. What gives them the privilege?

Fact: Israel has never threatened (or used) any country with nuclear weapons. While we receive constant threats from Iran. It was already said here that you don't have to use the nuke in order to bully people around.

I would love to see my government and the Palestinians drop their weapons and have peace. Unfortunately, I don't think this complicated dispute will somehow be solved anytime soon. As history taught us, it usually takes more than just a few years or even decades to settle this sort of thing.

 

[Mutant]

And this I think is where we can trace the whole thing down to - you believe that stereotypes have validity because they are born of 'reality'. It hasn't occurred to you that there are many realities, and that the one that a stereotype comes from can be a severely band-limited reality.

It is just that if i know that a group of people can be described with words other than "they are exactly the same as everyone else" i am not afraid to say how they are special.

Throughout the known history of civilization:
Are Jews best known for being successful, hard working scientists, bankers, traders ?
Are Jews best known for being successful, hard working farmers, miners, manual laborers ?
Or are Jews so average at everything, that you can't say that they are or were good or bad at anything specific ?

Can you gather enough courage to answer the question honestly ?
(You can even substitute "Jews" with "Americans", "Japanese", "Russians" or any other nation if you have to).

After reading the last page or so, I can't really think of you as anything other than a full blown racist. I do think you are a racist, and I don't think any of this was just a mistake or misinterpretation. You're looking for scientific evidence to support your own bigoted viewpoints... rather than looking at the science and adjusting your viewpoints to match.

I don't hate any race - i don't even have any emotional reasons to hate them, because where i live there are almost no members of other races except for good, law abiding and most probably above average intelligent exchange students from around the world (city of high education with many different academies).
I don't think any race is better than any other race, i only think they have their strengths and weaknesses if we look at them in high numbers averaged.
I don't judge if a person is bad or good, intelligent or not based just on his or her race - first i need to get to know that person to get enough information to form a properly educated judgement - before that, the person is just a blank page.

I have slavic and nordic blood in my veins, because before the holocaust every sixth Pole was of Jewish ethnicity (and some other physical appearance and family name hints too) i also allow a possibility that some of my ancestors were Jewish - so me being an antisemite would be highly illogical.

 

[drew_drummer]

It is just that if i know that a group of people can be described with words other than "they are exactly the same as everyone else" i am not afraid to say how they are special.

Throughout the known history of civilization:
Are Jews best known for being successful, hard working scientists, bankers, traders ?
Are Jews best known for being successful, hard working farmers, miners, manual laborers ?
Or are Jews so average at everything, that you can't say that they are or were good or bad at anything specific ?

Can you gather enough courage to answer the question honestly ?
(You can even substitute "Jews" with "Americans", "Japanese", "Russians" or any other nation if you have to).

Jews are best known for writing comedy for American TV shows, and for playing gangsters in American gangster movies.

 

[Mutant]

Jews are best known for writing comedy for American TV shows, and for playing gangsters in American gangster movies.

What a horrible racist thing to say !








kidding

 

[ArthurD]

If Israel REALLY wanted to expand itself on the expense of Palestinians, nothing would be left of that terrain. Instead, Israel supplies electricity and water both to the Gaza strip, and to the West Bank, while 32,000 Palestinians are employed inside the Israeli territory.

Who legitimated that territory to Israel?
If history books are right ("IF"),
the modern political legitimation was conceded by the League of Nations, witch the Palestines interested gave in half of their territory (now Israel).
You guys have to remember that this happened after the world war I, after all other nationalization movements, such the unification of Germany, Italy, Russia, etc.

Jews started to enter the Palestine state (not recognized by OCIDENTAL institutes) by the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine.

Check: http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/2FCA2C68106F11AB05256BCF007BF3CB


This is so idiot. It's all about political power.
Jews claim that Palestines stole their land, a land conceeded by god.
For the Palestines, its their land too, conceeded by god.
They will fight for the land.
FUCK THIS. CREATE A UNIQUE STATE ISRAEL-PALESTINE. THE WHOLE LAND IS LEGITIMATED BY BOTH PEOPLE. DIVIDE BY TWO THE CONSTITUTIONAL POWER, CREATE A DEMOCRATIC CONSTITUTION AND DIVIDE THE LEGAL POWER.
PEOPLE DESERVE PEACE, NOT POLITICAL FIGHT.

 

[Skinny Viking]

You've all heard my ball claps.

Maybe that's why they came out so clear ... nothing in the way

 

[timislegend]

although this thread has completely derailed, i will have to say that (at the moment) i am favoring carlos and jeff's conversation.

 

[MIAnn]

more importantly however, i haven't actually heard these ball claps...

 

[JeffTD]

Maybe that's why they came out so clear ... nothing in the way

You'd think the extra swinging range from a dickless-slap would help, but not as much as the added girth of a nice shaft supporting the scrotto as it hits the theigh.

 

[JHA]

Back on-topic boys. Can anyone share their thoughts on why you think Iran would be so stupid/suicidal to use a nuke against another country and possibly start WW3/4?

 

[~BURNY~]

You'd think the extra swinging range from a dickless-slap would help, but not as much as the added girth of a nice shaft supporting the scrotto as it hits the theigh.

I think we need a video tutorial. I can't picture it.

 

[JeffTD]

I think we need a video tutorial. I can't picture it.

...you just asked for dickvids.

 

[Mutant]

Back on-topic boys. Can anyone share their thoughts on why you think Iran would be so stupid/suicidal to use a nuke against another country and possibly start WW3/4?

First as i already said, you don't need to press the launch button to use a nuclear weapon, you just need to have it and everything changes even without you mentioning that you can use it.
North Korea most probably has it too and it is not a good thing from our perspective that they have it.

Second without scanning their thoughts with some future technology we can't say for sure how sane or how insane they are.

 

[colonel kurtz]

what do you mean, "most probably"? north korea has already detonated 2 nuclear devices underground, and as such it's confirmed they have nuclear weapons. all they've gained so far from having them is increased sanctions and international condemnation/ridicule.

 

[Mutant]

what do you mean, "most probably"? north korea has already detonated 2 nuclear devices underground

Or so they want you to think
There are some serious doubts about these detonations, some experts say that their bomb was really just a huge amount of conventional explosives, others say that it was a nuclear device indeed but that it was most probably too large to be carried by a rocket - it is way easier to make a huge bomb than a small bomb compact enough to be moved at hipersonic speed to its target at a big enough distance.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

I'm a supporter of Israel and I think a direct attack on Iran is a bad idea indeed. Even if Iran acquires one, two nukes, it's simply a security buffer. If they want one, they will get/build/acquire one. The economic sanctions aren't helping the security situation one iota. The Israelis are smarter than that. I do not think they will attack Iran with a direct military strike. Maybe I am wrong, who knows.

As far as everyone's attitudes towards Israel, well, this is nothing new. The sad fact is, many people have no real idea what they are talking about and have learned a very one-sided account of their history. That aside (since I doubt it will be possible to change the opinion of some, especially those who say they hate Israel), did you guys stop to think that Israel is a multi-faceted society?

I've been there, have many Israeli friends, and have spoken with many of them about this at length. In Tel Aviv alone you will find liberal Israelis who just want to live in peace and be left the fuck alone (the majority of the Israelis I know, some have Arab friends, they treat and expect to be treated by everyone as equals), head to Jerusalem and you will find haredim who think it is their god-given right to live in Israel, head to the settlements and you will find even more. Funny thing about the settlements. "Illegal" or not, much of the land built on is bought by wealthy Arabs who in turn sell it to wealthy Israelis/developers. This is far from the "crazy conquering zionist" mentality that many people have.

I will tell you this: this is NOT the attitude of everyone in the country, but for some reason Israel is often treated as a redheaded step child, somehow deserving less rights/respect than anyone else. How can anyone hate an entire country based on the behavior of their government or a percentage of "extremists" living within the country. It makes no sense. The fact is, they own sovereign territory, won through war, which they defend. The Palestinians often cite UN sanctions to back up their claims to territory, yet they leave out one important part of that agreement: sustained security. There are many decent Palestinians also, who simply want normal lives and to live in peace. It's the rotten apples that consistently try to (and sometimes succeed) in attacking Israeli citizens, blow up buses, etc. etc. Plus, when you have a moderately governed group of Palestinians and a group that want to destroy Israel, the chances of them ever agreeing or achieving a successful unity government are very slim.

Rant almost over lol. I don't expect to chance anyone's opinion, but I find that with Israel it's often a touchy subject that some folks would be able to appreciate better with a bit more insight into the problem.

Joe

 

[JHA]

First as i already said, you don't need to press the launch button to use a nuclear weapon, you just need to have it and everything changes even without you mentioning that you can use it.
North Korea most probably has it too and it is not a good thing from our perspective that they have it.

Second without scanning their thoughts with some future technology we can't say for sure how sane or how insane they are.

This topic is about Iran/Israel not about North Korea. I still don't see anything in your post that explains why you think Iran would be a threat. All I see really is your personal (biased?) opinion and what you think you know about the subject.

J.DavisNJ: The same can be said about Iran don't you think? "The sad fact is, many people have no real idea what they are talking about and have learned a very one-sided account of their history."

 

[JeffTD]

I'll clarify my statement; I hate the Israeli government and the concept of partitioning the area to form the country to begin with. I'm 100% on the side of the Palestinians on this one.