Israil Vs Lebanon

[paradoxile]

the bigger question is are the terror leaders are so because of misplaced hate and finding an twisted interpetation in religion to justify their will in violence...or is it as a result of their upbringing by the previous generation.

 

[Metal head87]

That could be said, but were the generations before anywhere near as vicious as they are now?

 

[paradoxile]

could be...but not as technologically advanced as now...it's kind of hard to explode in a populated area without the proper explosive devices and the lack of mass media to convince many people to join this holy war thingy

 

[UnConscious]

since the late years of 1930s there has been terror in the region. it was two-sided then, only until israel gained power and first founded an army and then a government and dismissed its terrorist groups and gained the right to exist, while arabs thought it would be street-fighting forever. most of those terrorists we're talking about are people who still cannot accept the idea that a jewish state has been founded in front of their eyes, so they don't accept israel's right to exist and will continue their "resistance" until israel is completely "destroyed". and i'm talking about the leaders.

And the terrorists, not the leaders but the ones who are being used in this inhumane violence, are told that the jews started killing arabs when they recieved support from un (typically, the "west" or, just the "americans") to destroy them completely and take over all their lands and make a holocaust on all muslims. and they look around. they see poverty, they see death, they see destruction. they see israeli tanks. they see soldiers enter their house. they see bombs kill their friends. in southern beirut, now, they see no roads, no bridges, no power supplies, almost no buildings that are still standing. so they think that they have to do something, no matter what it costs. it's extremely natural for them to believe the only guy that tells them to do something to stop "them". they don't even have to hear that they'll get 40 virgins in the afterlife. they are not doing this because they are sexomaniacs. they're doing this because they are desperate. they are so desperate that they can't think that they could hurt innocent people, including many muslims, which is strictly forbidden in islam. they can't think they'll be killing themselves, which is one of the greatest sins in islam. they can't even think about these, and thus, you cannot expect them to think and start blaming nasrallah or whoever.

 

[sister ophelia]

I don't blame the people who blow themselves up...they were probably misfits welcome to an organization that gave them love and the support they needed and on the way get brainwashed and eventually given a tnt belt...

Any of you who saw the movie "Paradise now"?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0445620/

What did you think of it?

 

[paradoxile]

since the late years of 1930s there has been terror in the region. it was two-sided then, only until israel gained power and first founded an army and then a government and dismissed its terrorist groups and gained the right to exist, while arabs thought it would be street-fighting forever. most of those terrorists we're talking about are people who still cannot accept the idea that a jewish state has been founded in front of their eyes, so they don't accept israel's right to exist and will continue their "resistance" until israel is completely "destroyed". and i'm talking about the leaders.

And the terrorists, not the leaders but the ones who are being used in this inhumane violence, are told that the jews started killing arabs when they recieved support from un (typically, the "west" or, just the "americans") to destroy them completely and take over all their lands and make a holocaust on all muslims. and they look around. they see poverty, they see death, they see destruction. they see israeli tanks. they see soldiers enter their house. they see bombs kill their friends. in southern beirut, now, they see no roads, no bridges, no power supplies, almost no buildings that are still standing. so they think that they have to do something, no matter what it costs. it's extremely natural for them to believe the only guy that tells them to do something to stop "them". they don't even have to hear that they'll get 40 virgins in the afterlife. they are not doing this because they are sexomaniacs. they're doing this because they are desperate. they are so desperate that they can't think that they could hurt innocent people, including many muslims, which is strictly forbidden in islam. they can't think they'll be killing themselves, which is one of the greatest sins in islam. they can't even think about these, and thus, you cannot expect them to think and start blaming nasrallah or whoever.

makes sence... about jewish terror though...it wasn't against arabs, it was against the brittish who discriminated against and treated the jews of palestine inhumainly...eventually we did drive them out

 

[Metal head87]

I think UnConscious meant that the arabs in that region are being told that there is terrorism against them. I don't think he (actually, I don't know if UnConscious is a he or she, so sorry if you're female and I refer to you as "he") was saying that there is actually terrorism being performed against them, but that their leaders are telling them that there is. Being in a desperate situation, people will believe anything that could possible give them hope.

But is killing yourself to kill your enemies considered as commiting suicide as opposed to one man going up against a bunch of soldiers with guns (I don't only mean with the extremists now, but also like the kamikaze soldiers)?

 

[UnConscious]

In the beginning, there was terror, before Israel was founded. The two sides began forming groups for fighting each other and the Brittish, on the streets, since there was no regular army then. And more extreme groups began slaughtering people in villages or bombed each other. This was terror and it was on both sides. But after Israel founded its own army, the street-fightings were finished (since the Israeli army was now too powerful for the small groups of Palestenians -who could not unite and get support from other Arabs to found a regular army- to fight in causal ways) and terror became one-sided since jewish groups were dismissed or joined the army.

As for today, I cannot call it terror. Because it's not being done to terrorize people. It systemmatically aims to destroy Hizbollah, for self defense. But today we're talking about 1000 people killed there in Lebanon by Israel. (Lebanon claims that almost all of them were innocent, while Israel claims that almost all of them were terrorists, so I prefer to refer them as "people") Israel doesn't care about other peoples' safety as far as I can see from here, because the army is destroying a whole city, with the whole infrastructure and almost all of the buildings. Even humanitarian aid cannot reach the region. That's also because in some regions Israel sent small brochures from the air to announce that they'll shoot anything that moves after 20.00.
This is not terror in sense of the terror done by Hizbollah, Hamas, Al-Qaida, PKK etc. But this is not fair or humane either.

As for Metal Head's question, I think it should be considered as suicide. When you blow yourself up in the middle of the enemy, you are sure to kill or at least deadly injure yourself. Same with Kamikaze. But if you attack with weapons, you're not hurting yourself directly. And you may survive. Rambo does

The last and the least, I'm a he

 

[Metal head87]

Rambo is fiction though. If you have a gun and charge into a bunch of well armed soldiers, there's no way you could survive. If you have amazing aim and a machine gun, you might be able to kill some soldiers, but one of them would shoot the guy for sure. I think it's basically the same thing as strapping a bomb on as far as whether or not it should be considered suicide as opposed to dying in battle. Although I don't think either one should be considered suicide, as far as religion is concerned, if the person has no chance to survive and would be killed irregardless.

But I'm talking about suicide when religion is concerned. Many religions consider suicide as one of the worst acts someone could commit. I know Judaism says that they have no place in the afterlife and they cannot be buried the same way as someone else.

 

[UnConscious]

We bury every muslim the same way in here. There's nothing against it in Quran, furthermore there are some sayings of the prophet that a muslim should have a religious burial even if he has commited suicide.
The point about suicide is the intention to kill yourself. According to Quran it's forbidden. It clearly says "Do not kill your own self". I don't think exploding yourself to kill the enemy is the same as taking a gun and shooting them. In the latter one you know "they" will kill you but in the former case your death will be by your hands. But the latter case is still stupid and careless unless you are the only one left to attack them.

Anyway, if we're talking about what Quran says, you should also know that it tells us to stop fighting if the other side has stopped, and that we can start fighting only if somebody attacks us. Even in that case the attacks should be "eye for an eye" at max.

 

[Metal head87]

But shouldn't going into such a deadly situation be like suicide also? I guess it's different for Islam and Judaism. Judaism doesn't allow someone to put their lives in jeopardy except if they are like in war or something, and even then, they are supposed to try and avoid as many dangers as possible.

 

[UnConscious]

But shouldn't going into such a deadly situation be like suicide also? I guess it's different for Islam and Judaism. Judaism doesn't allow someone to put their lives in jeopardy except if they are like in war or something, and even then, they are supposed to try and avoid as many dangers as possible.

Well yeah in Islam it is like that, too. You can't put anybody's (includings yours) life in danger because of your careless acts. But still it's not suicide. What I mean is that you'd probably be judged from "criminal neglect" rather than "murdering thyself" on the day of judgement

 

[Mabool]

Paradox we did nothing of the sort! We just didnt recognise your state when it was created. But I think terrorists are a mixture of what your all saying, its people who find comfort in a group who give them friendship and love they desire whilst also people who are esily manipulated plus those who have strong beliefs in the first place then you find many organisations stating tapping into to those people by brainwashing or preaching/ telling them what they want to hear, in some cases though it has come from the society, look at Ireland there has been a culture of anti protstant/anti catholic since the 1600, even though terroist networks didnt start as we know them till the 1900's, so it can range and manifest itself in an from all areas.