Life

[xicor]

If there is another topic about this can some me where it is and lock this one. I couldn't really find a topic here that meets my needs so I will make my own.

Yeah, this is a interesting topic indeed. You can choose. You want the hyper detailed, possibly four page version of what I have to say, or the shorter, I don't know how long I'll write version? (sorry, if that remark was too tactless )

So what I believe the point of life is.

"Man is to be happy"

Quite simple actually... (just that I never stated what makes people happy). I can state everything, but I can give some examples of happiness.

Eating a good meal with your family. Working hard on a project and seeing it being fulfilled in the end.
Helping people who need our help (Strangely service projects have been among the best days of my lives... I should do them more often... but laziness is a thing to be overcome. )

There are many more things... it's just hard to tell at times if something makes you happy, or if it's only a short time pleasure (like parties for example)... not that short time pleasure is something necessarily bad (why else would I play video games? )

Maybe someone might agree with that.

Biblical debates are often difficult, but I just wanted to give my somewhat alternate view points.

As to what someone said in my past(which words I take greatly) saying Jesus went through hell. I saw the word prison in that verse that he shows me. In my belief (I too am Christian) we believe that this prison is a place where the spirits of the dead come and wait for the resurrection (second coming of Christ etc.). We believe in two states for these spirits: prison and paradise (And Jesus went to the spirits in paradise and in prison to teach them (though you can't learn as much in this state of afterlife, since you have no body... this life is the time to learn)

I wanted to make a remark to make a remark to another one of verses to you people (I don't know which to quote, please forgive). Most Christian religions believe we would be fallen (as have no hope to return to live with God and Christ), believe we as humans sin. That's what Christ died for. He payed the price for our sins, and so we could have a chance to have eternal life. Most Christian beliefs also say that we must repent from our sins to take usage of Christ's sacrifice.

I won't go into further detail right now (and depending on how off topic things could go, it might be better to keep a open mind here )... Hopefully, I didn't write so awkward so noone could understand me.

So I would like to hear other people's opinion, so tell me, what is the meaning of life to you?

 

[derek]

With the utmost respect to your faith, I simply don't agree with it.

I do not assimilate a character as Jesus to have died for me nor my sins. In fact, I sort of resent being told I'm a sinner...when I am not. The sanctimonious aspect of Christianity is why I dislike it so.

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

Christianity is nothing more than a wheelchair for the crippled mind

 

[Norsemaiden]

Christianity is nothing more than a wheelchair for the crippled mind

And I'll third that. Can I ask how you (Xicor) can say that the point of life is for man to be "happy" and yet not see that Christianity is about suffering to do the "right thing" here on Earth, and not being hedonistic (which is the selfish pursuit of happiness). The happy reward is supposed to come when you get to heaven. Before then it is supposed to be a life of self-less sacrifice and struggle to follow Jesus' teachings.

 

[Anvil]

Most Christian religions believe we would be fallen (as have no hope to return to live with God and Christ), believe we as humans sin. That's what Christ died for. He payed the price for our sins, and so we could have a chance to have eternal life. Most Christian beliefs also say that we must repent from our sins to take usage of Christ's sacrifice.

I'm curious as to who you mean by, 'we'. Because I know that I never sinned and had someone die for it. I also don't believe that 'Jesus Christ' was anything special, that is, if he even really existed in the first place.

I'm very respectful of others religions, for the most part. Someone who isn't open-minded of other's beliefs bothers me. I was brought up a Roman Catholic, and branched away into my own beliefs, being my own person and not part of a religion or generalization of people. I am me, nothing more. My beliefs are my own, and if by sharing my beliefs with others makes for a better life for someone, so be it.

Out of all the religions that I've come in contact with, Jahovah's Witnesses and Buddist are probably the most open-minded of other's beliefs. Yes, I said the Mormons. I have an older man come by every sunday or so and just talk with me, or my roomate. He doesn't try to brainwash or PUSH his beliefs on to us, he just chats. And we have great conversations. He likes to listen to my beliefs and I like to try and understand his means for being a Mormon. Buddists are quite the same. They're very open minded of other's beliefs, and I've never seen one try to actually push their religion onto others. I find it hard to even call Buddism a religion. Its more of a way of life, as said by someone else on another thread.

Anyways, to continue this thread:

I believe man is here to survive. Nothing more, nothing less.

Survival is our main instinctual aspect, and everything branches off of it into other areas of instinct and such. We've come to a point in our Evolutionary Path where instinct almost doesn't exsist anymore... Its all becoming so easy to life our lives, that our primal function has become nothing more than a immaturity. Its now FROWNED APON to go and hunt for food. I mean, actually HUNT for your food, rather than buying it. Its not a game, not an instinct.

What I'm saying here can branch off into many different things... But that will be for another time, and another place.

Thanks for hearing me rant once again


PS: Even though this isn't really part of this thread, whataya guys think of my new signature?

 

[Cythraul]

Why is there such a dearth of reasoned argument in a forum called "The Philosopher"??? Here's this guy with his (uninsightful) Christian platitudes. This is neither interesting nor intellectually challenging.

 

[Black Core]

And I'll third that. Can I ask how you (Xicor) can say that the point of life is for man to be "happy" and yet not see that Christianity is about suffering to do the "right thing" here on Earth, and not being hedonistic (which is the selfish pursuit of happiness). The happy reward is supposed to come when you get to heaven. Before then it is supposed to be a life of self-less sacrifice and struggle to follow Jesus' teachings.

There is no such thing as the "right thing"

For the rest of it: I'll fourth that

 

[Neith]

Out of all the religions that I've come in contact with, Jahovah's Witnesses and Buddist are probably the most open-minded of other's beliefs. Yes, I said the Mormons. I have an older man come by every sunday or so and just talk with me, or my roomate. He doesn't try to brainwash or PUSH his beliefs on to us, he just chats. And we have great conversations. He likes to listen to my beliefs and I like to try and understand his means for being a Mormon. Buddists are quite the same. They're very open minded of other's beliefs, and I've never seen one try to actually push their religion onto others. I find it hard to even call Buddism a religion. Its more of a way of life, as said by someone else on another thread.

I'm slightly confused by this paragraph, you mention Jehovah's Witnesses and Buddhists, and then go on to talk of the Mormons as though the JW's and the Mormons are the same thing and they are not. I apologise if I just misread what you were saying, that's just the way I took it.

I believe man is here to survive. Nothing more, nothing less.

I've often wondered what the purpose of living is, because ultimately a=man cannot survive, everyone dies. Kids are born, they are educated through whatever means, they get a job, they may get married and have kids, they work until they retire, saving up for their retirement all the way, and then they die. What's the point? I've often wondered that, and thought that there must be something more than this, but I guess I'll never come to a satisfactory answer. Perhaps if I was to follow a religion I would follow that of the Jehovah's Witnesses, because that makes more sense than most other religions that I have heard of, although I obviously haven't studied them all, or indeed very many in great detail. But I'm not satisfied with what they have to say either, so I guess my purpose is to live, to do what I want to do with my life (and thus trying to reach a decent level of happiness) and then die.

 

[speed]

Why is there such a dearth of reasoned argument in a forum called "The Philosopher"??? Here's this guy with his (uninsightful) Christian platitudes. This is neither interesting nor intellectually challenging.

I agree. There is no question or issue presented here other than his ideas regarding his faith. He's been Pm'd to pose a question, if he does not edit sometime today, I will close it down.

 

[Susperia]

"Woman is to be happy".

 

[By Design]

I've often wondered what the purpose of living is, because ultimately a=man cannot survive, everyone dies. Kids are born, they are educated through whatever means, they get a job, they may get married and have kids, they work until they retire, saving up for their retirement all the way, and then they die. What's the point? I've often wondered that, and thought that there must be something more than this, but I guess I'll never come to a satisfactory answer. Perhaps if I was to follow a religion I would follow that of the Jehovah's Witnesses, because that makes more sense than most other religions that I have heard of, although I obviously haven't studied them all, or indeed very many in great detail. But I'm not satisfied with what they have to say either, so I guess my purpose is to live, to do what I want to do with my life (and thus trying to reach a decent level of happiness) and then die.

like you said, isnt there something more? in our society, the point of life is to life and die aiding the existence of the machine. forever locked in a 40 hour schedule, living out your life. of course, you are given a choice of where you would like to spend your life, because, “in the sea of bureaucracy i can be anything, anything i want to be.”

i havnt come to a conclusion about the meaning of life, its simply beyond my comprehension. but, i can still work toward it, with logic and reason. two abilities that separate humans from other animals, unfortunately, all too often they remain unused.

that brings me to catholicism, the other day two mormons came to the door spreading their belief. somewhere in the conversation i asked, “why is it that this all-powerful spirit cant communicate with me proving its existence?’ their answer, “he can, in prayer. but, you must believe in him before he will give an answer.” so youre telling me that in order for me to know that god exists, i must believe in it before i see it? absurd. to me, this opens the door for people to imagine god speaking to them, so, they can and will hear and see whatever they want to.

of all the classic religions, buddhism stands out for me. because, a big part of it is based on logic and reason, not blind belief.

"Woman is to be happy".

so, men were put on this planet to please women?

 

[Norsemaiden]

I'm slightly confused by this paragraph, you mention Jehovah's Witnesses and Buddhists, and then go on to talk of the Mormons as though the JW's and the Mormons are the same thing and they are not. I apologise if I just misread what you were saying, that's just the way I took it.



I've often wondered what the purpose of living is, because ultimately a=man cannot survive, everyone dies. Kids are born, they are educated through whatever means, they get a job, they may get married and have kids, they work until they retire, saving up for their retirement all the way, and then they die. What's the point? I've often wondered that, and thought that there must be something more than this, but I guess I'll never come to a satisfactory answer. Perhaps if I was to follow a religion I would follow that of the Jehovah's Witnesses, because that makes more sense than most other religions that I have heard of, although I obviously haven't studied them all, or indeed very many in great detail. But I'm not satisfied with what they have to say either, so I guess my purpose is to live, to do what I want to do with my life (and thus trying to reach a decent level of happiness) and then die.

Life's meaning is just what meaning you choose to give it. I think Jehovah's witnesses are particularly silly because , for example, they actually believe that in their Heaven (which is supposed to be on Earth in the future) that wild predators like lions and tigers will not kill or eat other animals any more. I have had several conversations with them, tried to get them to see sense (impossible) and read several issues of the Watch Tower and a book one of them gave me.

 

[Neith]

Life's meaning is just what meaning you choose to give it. I think Jehovah's witnesses are particularly silly because , for example, they actually believe that in their Heaven (which is supposed to be on Earth in the future) that wild predators like lions and tigers will not kill or eat other animals any more. I have had several conversations with them, tried to get them to see sense (impossible) and read several issues of the Watch Tower and a book one of them gave me.

Their 'heaven' is called Paradise, and its basically how the world originally was, i.e. the garden of Eden before Satan apparently interefered. All animals, birds and humans are supposed to have lived off the vegetation:

"Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which on the surface of the whole earth and on every tree which there is the fruit of a tree beering seed. To YOU let it serve as food. And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food." Gensis 1:29-30
Taken from the Bible of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

The theory is, in Paradise animals resume the old ways. Needless to say this is problematic, hence why I said I am not satisfied with what they have to say. For example, why do predators possess the teeth of carnivores if they originally lived off vegetation the same as any other herbivore.

Also, do you really think you should try to 'make them see sense'? I personally do not believe fully in evolution, but I do not fully believe in God either, I am opened minded and as such do not have a problem with people trying to 'make me see sense' if they have PROOF of their 'sense'. Both sides have evidence, both sides have problems. One good thing that they do is publish a magazine which provides advice and knowledge on secular issues, which I am led to believe has helped some non-religious people deal with their problems.

Life's meaning cannot be just what we make it; slaves were forced into slavery and according to your logic you could say that it was upto them to make their life what they wished. Well, a life of slavery cannot really be changed into much else. I seem to share opinions with By Design; I believe there to be something more but I am not sure what.

 

[Anvil]

I'm slightly confused by this paragraph, you mention Jehovah's Witnesses and Buddhists, and then go on to talk of the Mormons as though the JW's and the Mormons are the same thing and they are not. I apologise if I just misread what you were saying, that's just the way I took it.

Yea, I meant JW's, not mormons. For some reason I had that mixed up. I should edit it, but I'm just going to leave it

 

[Norsemaiden]

Their 'heaven' is called Paradise, and its basically how the world originally was, i.e. the garden of Eden before Satan apparently interefered. All animals, birds and humans are supposed to have lived off the vegetation:

"Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which on the surface of the whole earth and on every tree which there is the fruit of a tree beering seed. To YOU let it serve as food. And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food." Gensis 1:29-30
Taken from the Bible of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

The theory is, in Paradise animals resume the old ways. Needless to say this is problematic, hence why I said I am not satisfied with what they have to say. For example, why do predators possess the teeth of carnivores if they originally lived off vegetation the same as any other herbivore.

Also, do you really think you should try to 'make them see sense'? I personally do not believe fully in evolution, but I do not fully believe in God either, I am opened minded and as such do not have a problem with people trying to 'make me see sense' if they have PROOF of their 'sense'. Both sides have evidence, both sides have problems. One good thing that they do is publish a magazine which provides advice and knowledge on secular issues, which I am led to believe has helped some non-religious people deal with their problems.

Life's meaning cannot be just what we make it; slaves were forced into slavery and according to your logic you could say that it was upto them to make their life what they wished. Well, a life of slavery cannot really be changed into much else. I seem to share opinions with By Design; I believe there to be something more but I am not sure what.

You misunderstood what I meant when I said that life has the meaning that we give to it. I meant that there is no ultimate "meaning of life" out there to be discovered. What any person decides is meaningful in their existence is valid because there is no correct meaning or utimate purpose. We exist because we exist - not because we are meant to do something specific.
Do you see now that slaves being forced into slavery is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make? What do you think the meaning of life is for a slave, and how would that be any different for being free? Meaning of life is the purpose that YOU give to it and is not defined by whether you are a slave or not.
Being a slave is a barrier to achievement, but that is not the same thing.
If I would have said "What you do in life is what you choose for yourself" then the criticism about slavery would have been reasonable, but that is not at all what I meant.

 

[Neith]

I still think that even if what you say is true, there is still room for a bigger purpose. I'm not saying everyone has a purpose or that I was meant to do something, but I do not think it is fair to say "we exist because we exist". It is pointless, we may as well not exist if this is the case. Perhaps this is me simply not wanting to be insignificant, something which all people are guilty of. Also, I suppose a lot of this discussion depends on if humans have free will or not. If we do not, then we do not have any basis with which to associate any meaning to our lives, our lifes have been pre-decided and we just have to run with it. Much like slaves did. I'm sorry about the misunderstanding there but slaves still do not have much basis to associate any meaning to their life, as far as my sleepy mind can make out?

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

I believe man is here to survive. Nothing more, nothing less. Survival is our main instinctual aspect, and everything branches off of it into other areas of instinct and such. We've come to a point in our Evolutionary Path where instinct almost doesn't exsist anymore... Its all becoming so easy to life our lives, that our primal function has become nothing more than a immaturity. Its now FROWNED APON to go and hunt for food. I mean, actually HUNT for your food, rather than buying it. Its not a game, not an instinct.
PS: Even though this isn't really part of this thread, whataya guys think of my new signature?

i'm dazled by the way you perfectly articulated half the stuff i was trying to say on the "who can seriously believe in the bible" thread (the other half being an atempt at explaining the creation of religions and why they were neccassary for people at a certain stage of this species's psychological development)

ps love the new sig

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

Why is there such a dearth of reasoned argument in a forum called "The Philosopher"??? Here's this guy with his (uninsightful) Christian platitudes. This is neither interesting nor intellectually challenging.

i second this

 

[xicor]

Wow, it's good some people from time to time read my posts thoroughly... I'm far from perfect, and often make errors while writing (of all sorts).

As to the happiness point... uhm there must be a misunderstanding somewhere (I'm sorry for causing misunderstandings at times).
Anyways, I'll try to explain with a different approach (hopefully people don't mind me going into too much detail at times on religious debates... but then the US is a Christian country ).

If we look at the way Christ lived (which was supposedly perfect (that supposedly is a bad habbit of mine... I use it for most things I can't mathmatically prove.), we have an example of what belongs to a perfect life. We have learning a profession (He was a carpenter), we have helping the needy (there are enough examples for that) and we have things like preaching his father's word.
What I meant with being happy is that we should try and do above things (amoung others), as they should lead us to happiness (I must disagree on happiness being something that comes and goes so simply... that's why I mentioned momentary pleasure... yet I also understand your argumentation. I'll see if I can explain myself better at some point. At the moment I have my difficulties ).

I won't comment on the prison part... since that's either another topic, or something for PMs... but I'd be willing to discuss that.

I'm sorry about the last part, I read something you wrote incorrectly
It still seems awkward though. God weighs all sins the same? I have a strange feeling that murdering is worse than stealing, but I might have understood you wrong. I agree that all sins are noticed though. (But with the other thing... that would be strange when combined with "the unforgivable sin" (what Judas did).

So, that I also write something some other people might understand.
It's interesting. It seems like most people have some similar ideas on what is important in our lives (indepent of how you argument).

I'd be interested in hearing what a small child would answer to this question. Usually small children have the best answers to these questions"(And I do mean that).

 

[Anvil]

I think you're still missing the point to our arguement to your first post. We don't believe that the bible (at least I don't, and I'm quite sure this may also apply for a few others here) is, not only a work of fact, but that we should live our lives to the character, Jesus' example.

I do not believe that just because a few people wrote about a man who lived 2000 years ago, we should follow this person's life and live like him.

The problem with having a small child answer a question (I'm still unsure of what question you're posing in the first place) is that a small child's beliefs and answers are only as expansive as his influences of parents/guardians, etc. They only belief in what they're told and thats as far as their belief system is until they're able to look outside the box, and realize that life goes far beyond their parents.