Mac Pro or iMac?

[jipchen]

So, I'm finally ready to do the deed and purchase a new Mac. Thanks to Apple renewing the Mac Pro after what felt like 4 years
I know that some of you guys purchased the 27" Quadcore iMac lately, are you happy with it? I am still unshure whether I should buy the MacPro or an iMac.

iMac
+ 27" screen (awesome resolution)
+ great design
+ fast (enough)
- only 1 Firewire port
- only 1 Harddisk (yeah, you can add a SSD but I'm not willing to pay that much)
- not expandable with PCI-E/X/ cards or Firewire-based DSPs
- no Pro Tools HD (allthough I don't want or need it, anyways)

MacPro
+ fast
+ expandable (PCI/E/X)
+ 4 harddisk slots
+ more than enough firewire ports
- no screen (I've got a 24" TFT)
- SUPERDUPEREXPENSIVE

The iMac in the configuration I want it is pretty similar to eh Pro spec-wise:
Both Quadcore with 2,8 Ghz (i5 vs. Xeon, though), 8 GB Ram (since 12 doesn't seem to be any better), 1 TB Harddisk.
The Mac Pro costs 500€ more.
Which Mac would you prefer? I use a Fireface 800 with Logic and i am totally happy with that solution. I'll need Pro Tools (M/LE) for the Audio Engineering school, though. Not thinking of PT HD of course.
I know that there were severe problems with the 2008 generation of iMacs and the Fireface 800.. Don't know if they fixed the problem.
How many of you record on a Firewire-harddrive daisy-chained to a Firewire-audiointerface? Is it stable?

I just realized that the i5 with 2,8 Ghz in the iMac doesn't have virtual cores. The other iMac processor, i7 with 2,93 has this feature. Is it worth the 180 Euros extra? Would Logic use the 4 extra virtual cores?
Really need some help here

 

[MF_Kitten]

find out which is the latest version of the mac pro, then buy the cheapest one of that model (low specs and all that stuff) used. then upgrade it to be what you wanted in the first place, or even better, for less money. that´s my plan in the future.

i have an imac myself, and while they are awesome, they have a limit. they get old eventually, and there´s only so much you can change, ya know?

bottom line: don´t buy a high-spec´d mac from apple. the only thing i´d ever upgrade from the get go, would be the processor. the hard drive and RAM can be upgraded later with great parts, but for much less money.

 

[jipchen]

Thank you for your answer. I did a lot of research since yesterday and I think I'll go the Mac Pro route.
It's hell of a lot easier to upgrade and customize and you get more money if you sell it in the end..
And yeah, I actually planned to buy (additional) harddisks and RAM from another online store, because the Apple prices are fucking ridiulous.
I think I'll go with 6 GB (2x1GB from apple and 2x2GB extra) and see how the performance is - and if necessary I'll throw out the 1GB Rams and add another two 2GB ones. Funny: That's cheaper than buying the 3x2GB variant and adding a single RAM module.
And RAM gets cheaper every day, in a year you'll probably pay as much for 2x4GB as you pay now for 2x2.

The only thing that makes me cry is the 27" inch screen which I will never posess The incoming 27" cinema display is far too expensive.

 

[JeffTD]

I just ordered a 27" iMac, last years model, i7 2.8ghz.

If you're not running PTHD, the only thing you really miss out on is the 8 cores (i7 has hyperthreading which makes it benchmark just as well as the older 8 core xenons Mac Pros) and the multiple internal HDD's - I always dislike the idea of using an ext HDD, but honestly, in practice, it's NEVER been an issue for me.

The MP's are just prohibitively expensive in comparison, IMO - if you're not running PTHD or UAD cards or anything, you'll be fine with the iMac.

 

[Ola Englund]

I own the 27" i7 that Jeff bought and everything is working like a charm. I owned a quad Mac pro before that and while it was good the Imac is just a better deal.

 

[diafebus]

I own an iMac i7 (the same 2,8ghz), and instead of ram, i'm on 4GB and using Omnisphere, Superior Drummer and some other plguins it gets overloaded (i'm gonna upgrade to 8gb ram when it's cheaper)
and instead of ram thing, the i7 processor never gets over 40% of use... it's amazing and with usual things that you do the processor is always 95-98% free...
I don't charged a really serious project yet but for that i'll need the 8GB of ram.

well, the option of buying a 2nd hand mac pro is very nice, they upgraded just now the mac pro to 12cores, so the 8 cores mac pro now could be cheaper ^^
by the way from 8 to 12 cores unless you do HARD WORK on it, you won't notice any BIG difference.

(excuse my english ^^)

 

[John_C]

The difference between the two processors is large. The mac pro will be appreciably faster under heavy load than the imac. Also, seeing as for a recording machine superduper screen quality isn't exactly of paramount importance you can just buy another screen later to expand you workspace. (Having arrange and mixer seperate is awesome anyway)

 

[jangoux]

The studio where I work had a 24" Imac and now has a dual xenon Mac Pro. No comparison..it's even funny. The Mac Pro runs at 20% the projects the iMac ran almost choking itself. But the newer 27" Imacs with the I7 might be cool. Btw, for some reason, the firewire ports on the Imac didn't run the Fireface smoothly. I always got pops on low latencies, and the firewire 400 never worked.

 

[gabriel g.]

so would you say a mac pro dual xenon is more powerfull then the new imacs with the i7 processor?

I found a good deal on a xenon dual 2,6
but was also playing with the idea of an i7 imac.

 

[jipchen]

Thanks guys.
The iMac-Firewire-Fireface thing really deters me from buying an iMac. I don't need that after spending 2 grands on a fucking computer.
Plus I like the idea of having everything in its own little room, with good cooling and circulation - unlike the MacBook Pro for example, enough space to insert a lot of HDDs..
I hate external harddisks, I allready have 3 of them.. they will be everywhere if I buy another computer with only one HDD.
Last but not least, I want to install Winwows7 on an extra HDD (K.O.-criterion for the iMac) and I want a nice graphics card for Bad Company 2 and MW and all the nice games out there And I want it to be cooled, so it's not 100°C like in my MBP.
Really don't want to mess up my main drive in the (i)Mac and making everything slower just because I'm a fucking nerd.

 

[AdamWathan]

so would you say a mac pro dual xenon is more powerfull then the new imacs with the i7 processor?

I found a good deal on a xenon dual 2,6
but was also playing with the idea of an i7 imac.

I'm wondering this too now...

I just got my 27" iMac, but am 95% sure I'm going to return it because I'm an idiot and it was an impulse buy, can't justify spending $2k on a computer right now... I have to pay shipping plus +10% restock fee to return it though, and I really don't want to return it only to end up rebuying it later on when I have the cash, so I want to make sure that when I do buy something new, it's not gonna be a 27" iMac

The 2.66ghz Quadcore Xeon Mac Pros can be had pretty reasonably on eBay, like <$1500 all day long. I know the 2.8ghz i7 in the iMacs are better processors though :/ But if I can snag a Quad Core Mac Pro for like $1350, I'm thinking that is still a better buy overall than an iMac for $2000... Cheaper for one, and more expandable allowing me to use internal drives...

The 27" screen on the iMac is overkill too, it is barely usable for me, I dunno I can't get used to it. I was used to working at 1680 x 1050 on my old 21.5" monitor and that was pretty great. 2560 though is ridiculous, the pixel density on the iMac is crazy so even though I'm getting tons and TONS of extra workspace, everything on the screen is small as hell, so I have to zoom in all the time to see what I'm doing anyways, I even have to zoom the text on webpages to read them comfortably, so I'm not actually gaining anything at all! I suppose I could run the iMac at a lower resolution but that seems like such a waste

So I dunno, what do you guys think, return the iMac, get $1800 back, then spend $1200 or so in like 6 months when the quad core Mac Pros drop even a tiny bit more, or keep the iMac because it will outperform the Mac Pro? I was stoked on my old Q6600 PC with 4gb of RAM and I could never imagine actually needing more power than that. I'm guessing a 2.66ghz Quad Core Xeon is gonna perform at about the same speed as that right?

 

[gabriel g.]

anyone?

 

[jipchen]

so would you say a mac pro dual xenon is more powerfull then the new imacs with the i7 processor?

I found a good deal on a xenon dual 2,6
but was also playing with the idea of an i7 imac.

Regarding the processing power, eight cores are faster than four, I guess
.. IF the application can use the cores properly.
So for gaming and most "normal" apps the i7 would probably be faster (because it's 2,93Ghz), but Logic and (most) Apple applications are optimized to work faster with several cores.
And if you do a lot of multitasking, more cores are better, too.
And you have 8 slots for (better ECC-)RAM modules, instead of four normal slots.

 

[JeffTD]

Regarding the processing power, eight cores are faster than four, I guess
.. IF the application can use the cores properly.
So for gaming and most "normal" apps the i7 would probably be faster (because it's 2,93Ghz), but Logic and (most) Apple applications are optimized to work faster with several cores.
And if you do a lot of multitasking, more cores are better, too.
And you have 8 slots for (better ECC-)RAM modules, instead of four normal slots.

Sortof - as far as the cores go, i7's have hyperthreading which makes it appear as 8 cores to a lot of apps (Logic included), and they actually benchmark as performing better than the 2.66 8-core xenons.

As far as the RAM... the iMac tops out at 16GB - more than enough for just about anyone.


I've not had any issues Adam mentioned on editing or pixel density - working on this thing is a dream come true.

 

[AdamWathan]

Sortof - as far as the cores go, i7's have hyperthreading which makes it appear as 8 cores to a lot of apps (Logic included), and they actually benchmark as performing better than the 2.66 8-core xenons.

As far as the RAM... the iMac tops out at 16GB - more than enough for just about anyone.


I've not had any issues Adam mentioned on editing or pixel density - working on this thing is a dream come true.

I calculated with my old 21.5" monitor (which I ran at 1680 x 1050, highest it supports), I was getting about 91 pixels per inch of width. With the iMac it's like 110 pixels per inch, which is why everything looks more crammed together. It's great, you get tons of workspace, I just had to zoom in a bit to see the waveforms as physically big as I was used to.

I'm setup on my MacBook Pro with external display again now and I like it better, I can see the whole screen without moving my head

Definitely returning it, will buy a 2.66ghz quad core Mac Pro in a few months, just keep my eyes on the 'bay and try and score one for $1200 or something.

 

[JeffTD]

Yeah the quad core will be no slouch, although I'm amazed at the performance of the i7. Projects I had running at 80% on my Q6600 machine run at 35-40% on the i7, and in lower buffer settings.

Tracking on this screen is the shit. It's not even a matter of "this is a huge screen," anymore, but one of "this is how computing should always be." Definitely fits with my workflow perfectly.

 

[nickkbh]

Hey.

I was in the same position, the old Macpro was not up to standards anymore.
So i was just about to decide which mac to buy, when i discovered the hackintosh concept.

After a few weeks of research, i build myself an i7 with 6 gb of ram, running Logic 9 64 bit.
And it is stable as a rock, and so far i havent had a single problem.

Price, just around $ 1.000.-

Anyway, not to sure wether this topic is taboo or not, so i wont write further.
But i will be happy to answer any question and help in any way i can.

Thanks

Nicolai

 

[AdamWathan]

Not taboo at all, this is something that has always been of interest to me and has been discussed by a bunch of dudes here in the past... Care to share exact parts and specs? If I could put together a sure-fire-stable-no-problems-at-all Hackintosh I would do it in a heart beat. Something cheap, like Q6600 based with 4gb of ram would totally satisfy my needs.

 

[nickkbh]

Cool, i'll be happy to help.
FIrst my best source for this.
http://tonymacx86.com/
Heres my particular parts list.

But if you have a look around the Tonymac site, you can find cheaper builds.

Processor: Intel Core i7-930 2.80GHz
CPU Fan: Scythe Mugen 2
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5
Power Supply: Corsair CMPSU-650HX 650w
RAM: G.Skill 3 x 2GB 4GB ECO DDR3 Kit 1600Mhz PC3-12800 CL7 6000
DVD Drive: Sony Optiarc AD-7240S-0B 24X 800
Case: Coolermaster 2300

 

[John_C]

Cool, i'll be happy to help.
FIrst my best source for this.
http://tonymacx86.com/
Heres my particular parts list.

But if you have a look around the Tonymac site, you can find cheaper builds.

Processor: Intel Core i7-930 2.80GHz
CPU Fan: Scythe Mugen 2
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5
Power Supply: Corsair CMPSU-650HX 650w
RAM: G.Skill 3 x 2GB 4GB ECO DDR3 Kit 1600Mhz PC3-12800 CL7 6000
DVD Drive: Sony Optiarc AD-7240S-0B 24X 800
Case: Coolermaster 2300

very nice! great choice of mobo and RAM