Males and Females

[Manic Ferocity]

I can see that but it sounds like the reason IS kids, and not necessarily whether or not the parents are happily married.

Of course there ARE people that remain faithful but I think most (if not all) couples are faced with the temptation of cheating at some point or another.

I've experienced this with my ex and have been on the receiving end of girls in long term (ALL long term) relationships expressing interest in me. I called out the last one and she straight up left her partner. She got back together with him three months later. Guy had no idea I existed, or that she had been seeing someone else. People find convenient loopholes like this all the time, I reckon, and why not? It's not ACTUAL cheating but it sure as hell implies that people get sick of being with the same person for an extended period of time.

 

[Dak]

I figure most everyone thinks about "what if" at some point or another. But just because you might think about it doesn't grant it some level of legitimacy. How many people wish "if only I had a tank/bulldozer/etc I'd run that other person over/off the road/etc." Does that mean we need to stop "frowning" on road rage? There are plenty of sociological and psychological reasons (or evolutionary, if you prefer) for a general support of monogamy. Hedonistic "happiness" has nothing to do with it.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

That's kind of a melodramatic analogy. Jealousy is a difficult obstacle to get around but the real unethical part of seeing people outside a relationship is when it involves dishonesty.

I'm really not talking about evolutionary benefits here. I'm talking about whether or not people find themselves genuinely happy in long term relationships. It just seems like an overly-romanticized cultural norm that's ingrained into people as being a priority for living a fulfilling life.

 

[waif]

Polyamory seems the most ideal to me if you thrive on relationships since it allows you to accept that relationships are temporary and is a way of combatting jealousy by always keeping your options open. Hardly a "solution" but it seems the most pragmatic to me.

That's not what polyamory is at all.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Uh, yeah it is. Are you sure you aren't confusing it with polygamy?

 

[Dak]

I'm talking about whether or not people find themselves genuinely happy in long term relationships. It just seems like an overly-romanticized cultural norm that's ingrained into people as being a priority for living a fulfilling life.

No more overly romanticized than the supposed need to be "happy" at all times as being a priority for living a fulfilling life.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

I don't think anyone is ever always a single emotion. Are you passing this off as an argument? I don't think it needs to be stated that "happiness" is a generalization.

Ok, so part of my influence in initiating this discussion is that my mother had an affair or came very close to having one a few years ago. I don't really care to know which. My parents have no visible problems whatsoever in their relationship so it completely took me by surprise. They managed to work through it I guess but it was still the final nail in the coffin for my continuing to buy into horseshit like this. The cons far outweigh the pros for MOST couples I've known and been in. Frankly, it's all but lost any appeal it once had for me.

 

[waif]

Uh, yeah it is. Are you sure you aren't confusing it with polygamy?

Polygamy is marrying multiple people. Polyamory is loving multiple people. It doesn't mean keeping your options open, it means that the love you have for one person does not diminish the love you have for another. It's common for polyamorists to have a primary partner - if they're not out as polyamorous, this may appear to be their only partner - and then engage in one or more relationships outside of that. There are also triads, obviously more common among gay men, where three people are all in the same relationship. These aren't particularly stable, but then neither are heterosexual marriages.

What you're describing is fear of commitment (or getting hurt) resulting in a string of shallow, meaningless "relationships" of convenience. That's not what polyamory is about.

 

[Dak]

I don't think anyone is ever always a single emotion. Are you passing this off as an argument? I don't think it needs to be stated that "happiness" is a generalization.

Well obviously people aren't in a continuous single emotional state. But being "happy" is upheld as some sort of imperative, much more so than traditional marriage or monogamy or something.

Edit: I don't understand your response to the family situation. My mother did cheat on and divorce my father. Didn't make me suddenly question the idea of marriage or monogamy.

 

[Matt]

I'd like to try an open relationship. Eliminates the jealously, but its not like you're actually dating multiple people and have to split time between them. Also would definitely be down for an agreement like the Underwoods have in House of Cards.

 

[Onder]

Well I have a birthday in two days and my girlfriend's been saying something about having a gift for me since like, two months back. I really don't know what it could be and I'm starting to be childish about it.

But anyway, I'm going to buy myself new in-ear headphones for my long travels to the uni, and also some new pants.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Polygamy is marrying multiple people. Polyamory is loving multiple people. It doesn't mean keeping your options open, it means that the love you have for one person does not diminish the love you have for another. It's common for polyamorists to have a primary partner - if they're not out as polyamorous, this may appear to be their only partner - and then engage in one or more relationships outside of that. There are also triads, obviously more common among gay men, where three people are all in the same relationship. These aren't particularly stable, but then neither are heterosexual marriages.

What you're describing is fear of commitment (or getting hurt) resulting in a string of shallow, meaningless "relationships" of convenience. That's not what polyamory is about.

I feel like we are saying the same thing but I guess the way I worded it sounded kind of shallow. Like any other type of relationship, there are going to be people that you don't find compatible, and polyamory (we'll go by your description) allows for you to have other options. I did not mean that on a strictly sexual basis by any means. I do think multiple partners would be helpful in easing jealousy, as well as providing a healthy amount of space.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Well obviously people aren't in a continuous single emotional state. But being "happy" is upheld as some sort of imperative, much more so than traditional marriage or monogamy or something.

Edit: I don't understand your response to the family situation. My mother did cheat on and divorce my father. Didn't make me suddenly question the idea of marriage or monogamy.

Well doesn't everyone generally want to be happy? Who prefers to have negative emotions? I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

Well it was that on top of my own rocky experience with my ex and just the way I've seen most couples that I'm close with and the shit they go through. It's disheartening to me how much bullshit people are willing to put up with, and all to chase this "oh so wonderful" idea of spending the rest of their lives with someone. If you can still see the beauty in it then more power to you. It's not for me.

Also, I am the most happy when I'm single. I'm not even all that interested in seeing anyone casually at the moment since that comes with its own bullshit. I like to be alone. Why Is that so hard for people to understand?

 

[Dak]

Well doesn't everyone generally want to be happy? Who prefers to have negative emotions? I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

I see too many people refuse to do x/y/z because it isn't all "candy and roses", or whatever other fluffy metaphor you might use. It is quite annoying. Just about anything worth having takes some effort that is not going to be pleasant on some level or at some point (or many points).

Well it was that on top of my own rocky experience with my ex and just the way I've seen most couples that I'm close with and the shit they go through. It's disheartening to me how much bullshit people are willing to put up with, and all to chase this "oh so wonderful" idea of spending the rest of their lives with someone. If you can still see the beauty in it then more power to you. It's not for me.

Well if the point is merely to "be" with someone, then that is a pretty shallow reason, and when you are with the wrong person and/or not putting in the effort, staying together doesn't make much sense. That people pick/stay with the wrong people doesn't mean that there can't be a right person.

Also, I am the most happy when I'm single. I'm not even all that interested in seeing anyone casually at the moment since that comes with its own bullshit. I like to be alone.

If that's the case, then be alone. Dealing with anyone requires dealing with at least some bullshit though. Even when you are just dealing with yourself.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Well right, but I still have a social life and I'm regularly around and flirting with girls. I'm just not making much of an effort to become close with anyone.

Ok, I was talking to an older woman for a couple weeks up until recently. I gave her an honest chance but I ultimately could not stand her personality. She would constantly talk over me, never allowing me to speak, and her conversations mostly revolved around her incarcerated ex and how she "still loves him" (whilst seeing me, of course). After the last time I saw her (last Thursday), I'd had enough. Luckily, neither of us have been texting the other so maybe she herself isn't interested.

 

[Mort Divine]

No more overly romanticized than the supposed need to be "happy" at all times as being a priority for living a fulfilling life.

Seriously. I really find the way that people are made to believe that there should be no other acceptable emotions than happiness (and to a lesser extent anger) to be kind of disgusting.

Sure, being happy is great, but sometimes you just aren't, and experiencing the emotions that come when not experiencing happiness is mostly only healthy to do.

 

[arg]

Well I have a birthday in two days and my girlfriend's been saying something about having a gift for me since like, two months back. I really don't know what it could be and I'm starting to be childish about it.

But anyway, I'm going to buy myself new in-ear headphones for my long travels to the uni, and also some new pants.

have you posted pics of her yet? i'm not on here as often and i'd love to see

also, huge noise-canceling headphones that cover your whole ear are best

 

[Onder]

have you posted pics of her yet? i'm not on here as often and i'd love to see

also, huge noise-canceling headphones that cover your whole ear are best

Yeah I have posted some. I probably won't share more unless I have some new.

Well I have large AKG headphones for home-use, but I want something small for my way to school. I chose Etymotic in-ear monitors. Apparently they isolate perfectly and they have a very strict and precise sound.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

I just gotta say that there's few more awesome feelings than meeting someone who's weird in the same obscure, disgusting, and disturbing ways you are, who's also hot, wants to have sex with you, and thinks the things you don't have in common are fascinating. And you think the same of them.

Sure, there's other hot people who maybe hit a few of those nails on the head, and that weirdo broke your favorite fuckin model, but banging one of those others at the risk of losing someone who makes you feel normal isn't worth it. Besides, they'll never really get you, they're just interesting and nice to look at. Once you're too old for sex, you'll want those good memories and the peace that comes with self assurance. A good love removes self doubt, it doesn't foster it.

I think a lot of relationships are bullshit and interchangeable, I.e. anyone hot, sane, and vaguely similar will do. Some people change when they find someone hot and cool to become more compatible, then stay changed forever until they're married and have kids, and begin to resent it. I feel bad for the people too afraid to be themselves, in all the interesting and boring glory, because they'll never have accuracy in feeling amongst others.

 

[Einherjar86]

It's for the children. Literally. As in, you can't all just be free-fucking bonobos and also take good care of children. Of course, if you don't want kids, then by all means go bonofuckingbo. Just be sure to use protection so as to erase yourself from the gene pool and not fuck over some poor kid unfortunate enough to be your accidental offspring.

Alternatively, a person who goes all "free-fucking bonobos" has a better chance of producing a large variety of offspring, thus increasing the odds that they will be better equipped to survive and ensuring the continuation of the parents' lineage.

Now, it is true that children fare better if they have a parent that sticks around to raise them; but the other evolutionary behavior is to plant as many seeds in as many different kinds of mate as you can. The chances are that at least some of them will survive.

Raise vs raise well.

It's a mistake, of course, to believe that "raising well" leads to the institution of marriage, or that marriage and proper grooming are the direct result of some kind of superior evolutionary behavior. Marriage is a product of patriarchy, nothing more; and the value of monogamy follows from this. It has nothing to do with evolutionary behavior witnessed in other species.

In contrast to the false equation given above, it is actually the institution of marriage itself - a socioeconomic model instituted by those in positions of power in order to procure the most viable and fertile mates - that constructs our notions of what it means to "raise well." And this is merely for the purpose of perpetuating the patriarchy. It is entirely possible, in another set of environmental, cultural, or evolutionary conditions, that raising well means instilling in one's children the propensity for impregnating as many mates as possible.