Males and Females

[crimsonfloyd]

I could never buy this. It makes no sense to me how after hundreds of millions of years of evolution through sexual reproduction, we would somehow drop heterosexuality from our psychology. We're heterosexual (unless there's a neurological abnormality), but our sexual development is complex like our development in general, leaving room for all kinds of strange sexual natures to develop.

A psychological inclination toward homosexual activity doesn't exclude or threaten a predominate inclination toward heterosexual activity. Think more in terms of behavior and less in terms of identity. The former is much more a biological measure.

One, our brains are capable of associating almost anything with almost anything, and two, the environment we live in is far different from the kind we spent most of our evolution, making us develop all kinds of odd behaviors due to attributing manmade, arbitrary things to inherent instincts. Just because we develop a weird behavior, that doesn't mean it's inherent

Here's the problem with this suggestion: it doesn't explain the presence of homosexual behavior in hunter gatherer tribes or other great apes. Like I said before, homosexual acts are not uncommon in chimps, bonobos or gorillas. I would need to do more research to speak with confidence on hunter gather tribes, but what I remember from anthropology, it is not uncommon.

 

[Vimana]

Identity is a behavior. The point I was making was that just because an animal is intelligent enough to learn unusual sexual behaviors, that doesn't mean they're born with a drive for them. The behaviors are a trigger for an instinct, not an instinct on their own.

Basically, in a normal person's brain, homosexuality is a conditioned response, whereas heterosexuality is unconditioned. I don't think we have unconditioned homosexual tendencies simply because we can be conditioned to enjoy homosexual things, and I think the same goes for other apes, too.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Identity is a behavior. The point I was making was that just because an animal is intelligent enough to learn unusual sexual behaviors, that doesn't mean they're born with a drive for them. The behaviors are a trigger for an instinct, not an instinct on their own.

Basically, in a normal person's brain, homosexuality is a conditioned response, whereas heterosexuality is unconditioned. I don't think we have unconditioned homosexual tendencies simply because we can be conditioned to enjoy homosexual things, and I think the same goes for other apes, too.

Identity is not behavior. For example, a man can see himself as gay without ever having an intimate encounter with another man. A biological female might see her/himself as a man without necessarily dressing up like a man.

As for homosexual activity being a learned trait, evidence for that would be the absence of said behavior within certain ape communities. For example, some chimpanzee and bonobo societies use twigs to get termites, while others don't. So it's a part of some chimp/bonobo "cultures" and not a part of others. It's a learned trait. In contrast, homosexual behavior is just about universal in chimp/bonobo societies. With bonobos it's literally an everyday practice. So it seems a implausible to state that a behavior that all healthy members of a species engages in on such a regular basis is learned. The simpler explanation is that it's inherent.

Read this article on bonobo sexuality, especially the last two sections. DeWall isn't specifically focused on whether or not the traits are inherent or learned, but I think based on the structure of bonobo society, those males and even moreso the females who have homosexual tenancies would have a better opportunity to gain food resources and mating opportunities:

http://www.primates.com/bonobos/bonobosexsoc.html

 

[Eligos]

It had to be done.

 

[Matt]

Identity is a behavior. The point I was making was that just because an animal is intelligent enough to learn unusual sexual behaviors, that doesn't mean they're born with a drive for them. The behaviors are a trigger for an instinct, not an instinct on their own.

Basically, in a normal person's brain, homosexuality is a conditioned response, whereas heterosexuality is unconditioned. I don't think we have unconditioned homosexual tendencies simply because we can be conditioned to enjoy homosexual things, and I think the same goes for other apes, too.

I would love to know how you came to these conclusions.

 

[SentinelSlain]

Women are stupid because they can't put their sexuality to one side and see the world as it reall is, without immediately having to try and find the best potential mate and then suddenly put themselves in a position of agreement with whatever direction said male takes. I'm not surprised western style feminism was so long coming.

 

[Addo_Of_Nex]

Start qualifying your statements or just fucking kill yourself. Please.

 

[SentinelSlain]

Have you ever seen a woman say "well I don't think that's the case" as if it were a well worded argument and then kind of flick her hair to the side or vibrate, with the vibration indicating that her sexuality was overwhelming her ability be rational.

 

[Addo_Of_Nex]

Are you asking if I've ever encountered a woman equipped with sound logical faculties and the ability to do anything other than seek the "most fit mate"? If so, yes; but then again I don't have weird issues with women that make me see them as inherently evil or manipulative. Femininity isn't the issue; it's all you.

 

[Eligos]

It's a scientific fact that women are subservient to men, that's why we keep them on dog collars, chained to our bed posts. The only thing they're good for is fucking and giving birth. After you've eliminated all of the trappings of your own self-doubt, you can look at all the successful, well-adjusted men who keep women chained to their bed posts and follow that pathway to your own self-worth.

Another thing, studies have shown that the best way to exert dominance over another man in a business situation is by whipping out your member in public and urinating on his face. After you have shamed him, you can continue negotiating your raise, brokering a contract, or convincing him to promote you.

 

[SentinelSlain]

If you don't know what I'm talking about you must have lived sheltered lives.

 

[Eligos]

Absolutely, I agree 100%, we should also restrict weak men from getting any funny ideas about their futures and tether them to cash registers and stoves for the rest of their days.

Also, while we're at it, they do not need to own land, we can just provide mass lodging so that they don't die off like flies. We the privileged need our laborers, after all.

 

[KafkaX]

It had to be done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiXaT_1I-vw

So much win.

 

[Vimana]

I would love to know how you came to these conclusions.

We are animals that reproduce sexually. In a normal brain, drives to reproduce are attributed to the opposite sex. In an abnormal brain, the mechanism is reversed and the drives to reproduce end up with the wrong gender. Our brains are not "bisexual" with a leaning, we just have reproductive instincts that can be triggered by multiple sources, including individuals of the same sex, or even other animals.

 

[Master_Yoda77]

Have you ever seen a woman say "well I don't think that's the case" as if it were a well worded argument and then kind of flick her hair to the side or vibrate, with the vibration indicating that her sexuality was overwhelming her ability be rational.

What in the fuck?

 

[whiskey funeral]

What in the hell is wrong with you, ChromeHeart? This thread has gotten pretty horrible over the last few pages. Abort this abomination, someone...please.

 

[Matt]

We are animals that reproduce sexually. In a normal brain, drives to reproduce are attributed to the opposite sex. In an abnormal brain, the mechanism is reversed and the drives to reproduce end up with the wrong gender. Our brains are not "bisexual" with a leaning, we just have reproductive instincts that can be triggered by multiple sources, including individuals of the same sex, or even other animals.

You're a fucking idiot.

 

[SentinelSlain]

ah whatever, I'm broken.

 

[Eligos]

You really need to take a good long look at your insecurities and find out how to either make peace with them or grow from them.

 

[Master_Yoda77]

So, should I bone this girl from home? She'd be a super easy lay, so easy that I don't even to do much besides hang out with her a few times. She's kinda greasy though, she used to be engaged to a friend of mine and she would call him up saying how she was pregnant and some other horseshit, but I don't know if that's my friend exaggerating the story or what. Their relationship was fucked up anyways.